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Thread: Most Ancient I-M223 Samples on Y-Full

  1. #1
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    Most Ancient I-M223 Samples on Y-Full

    Interestingly, two samples from the Ancient Rome paper by Antonio et. al, R7 (Grotta Continenza; 8821-8642 calBCE) and R15 (Grotta Continenza; 7284-7065 calBCE) have been added to YFull, where they appear to belong to a very basal branch of I-M223. These samples may very well redefine this SNP/subclade. I believe these are the oldest I-M223 samples in existence.
    MDKA: Robert Boulay, b. 1631, Réveillon, Orne, France
    Y-DNA: R1b-U152 > L2 > Z367 > Z34 > Z33 > BY164497> BY3604

    Maternal Y-DNA: J2a-M67 > Z1847 > Y4036 > Z467 > Z447> L210

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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by alchemist223 View Post
    Interestingly, two samples from the Ancient Rome paper by Antonio et. al, R7 (Grotta Continenza; 8821-8642 calBCE) and R15 (Grotta Continenza; 7284-7065 calBCE) have been added to YFull, where they appear to belong to a very basal branch of I-M223. These samples may very well redefine this SNP/subclade. I believe these are the oldest I-M223 samples in existence.
    Ogof_yr_ychen_1, who is I2-M223->CTS616, from British Isles is 7593-7204 cal. BCE and is likely older than R15.

    Well, both of this samples still have a mark "analysis in progress". It would be very interesting to see if they form a single subclade and what is its age estimation. Anyway, both R7 and R15 Y-chromosomes likely belong to a branch that didn't survive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alchemist223 View Post
    Interestingly, two samples from the Ancient Rome paper by Antonio et. al, R7 (Grotta Continenza; 8821-8642 calBCE) and R15 (Grotta Continenza; 7284-7065 calBCE) have been added to YFull, where they appear to belong to a very basal branch of I-M223. These samples may very well redefine this SNP/subclade. I believe these are the oldest I-M223 samples in existence.
    R7 is the second oldest (pre)M223 sample:

    Ukraine_HG1; 9193-8641 BC; Vasilyevka; Ukraine; Mesolithic; I2a2a-(pre?)M223; Jones 2017

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  7. #4
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    My main goal of all these collected data is YFull's interest in obtaining the largest possible number of ancient samples for their analysis. That is why I did not focus only on my I-M223 group, but I wanted a broader context. Many older samples were previously analysed and at that time had SNPs readings at the minimum known level. Currently, there are greater possibilities of their analysis and we know more SNPs. I hope that the samples of level I-M223 (and phyloequivalent), I-P217, I-L460, I-M438 or l-M170 can be better described. In addition, it is associated with new dating and the detection of currently unknown branches. I checked how many ancient samples are in YFull and you can see that subsequent samples are analysed by them. I made a set for the whole group I, so that YFull could analyse the whole group as much as possible, and not just respond to individual queries.
    These are probably not all the data. Probably someone has additional data that can complete or improve my collection. I did not want to change or correct the acquired data, so you can see various dating or descriptions, especially regarding ISOGG names. If anyone notices errors or would like to complete this data, please contact me or post on the forum. The collected data (Draft v.1e xlsx) can be seen at this link:
    https://ln2.sync.com/dl/f7f0da780/nf...kqwwk-c5vfsm27
    In these xlsx data, I marked samples that belong to I-M223 or those that probably belong to my group yellow.
    Last edited by an_I; 02-04-2020 at 01:16 PM.

  8. #5
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    The I-M223 Project Administrator informed me that YFull is interested in my collection of ancient samples of group "I".
    Unfortunately, I do not have an overview of the list, which was created by "deadly77" for the I1 haplogroup.
    Based on many published researches and studies, I have prepared a list of ancient samples whose "bam" or "fast" files can be obtained from the ENA. You can se them in my list. Unfortunately, no one answered my query to expand the set of tests.
    It is very hard to use ISOGG naming, because it introduces a huge confusion, but in my list there are samples not only for my group I-M223, but also for I-P37, I-576, I-M438, I-M170 and I-M253.
    I hope that these haplogroups will also be extended with ancient samples from my summary and we will able to see them in YFull.

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    Quote Originally Posted by an_I View Post
    The I-M223 Project Administrator informed me that YFull is interested in my collection of ancient samples of group "I".
    Unfortunately, I do not have an overview of the list, which was created by "deadly77" for the I1 haplogroup.
    Based on many published researches and studies, I have prepared a list of ancient samples whose "bam" or "fast" files can be obtained from the ENA. You can se them in my list. Unfortunately, no one answered my query to expand the set of tests.
    It is very hard to use ISOGG naming, because it introduces a huge confusion, but in my list there are samples not only for my group I-M223, but also for I-P37, I-576, I-M438, I-M170 and I-M253.
    I hope that these haplogroups will also be extended with ancient samples from my summary and we will able to see them in YFull.
    Apologies, I didn't see this earlier. I usually direct people to my map in my signature, but I've since been told that new AG members with a low post count are unable to see signatures, so you can view the map at https://bit.ly/2Z3CJk7

    I've only focused on the I1 or pre-I1 samples that have some a mixture of positive and negative SNPs on the I1 branch level. So this doesn't include any I2 samples. Nit sure if Yfull will consider the pre-I1 samples due to the low coverage, but there's no harm in asking.
    Haplogroup I1 Ancient DNA Samples Map: Hidden Content

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  11. #7
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    Thank you deadly77.
    Both YFull and FTDNA update their trees based on data obtained from ancient samples. YFull describes which samples are related to research work. Unfortunately, FTDNA doesn't provide any information, so we currently know the new SNP markers, but we don't know who they belong to.
    FTDNA has published a new node downstream of I-M223. It splits the main line into two branches: I-P222 and I-FT355000. We don't know who form the I-FT355000 line. This line has seven SNPs: FT355000, FT355001, FT355002, FT355003, FT355004, FT355005, FT355006.
    We wonder if it is not the R7 and R15 line. YFull found no new mutations for them.

    Another curiosity is the discovery of new nodes downstream of I-Z161:
    I-Z161 > I-FGC3575 > I-S2452 > I-L801 > FT384000 (FT384000,
    FT384001, FT384003)
    I-Z161 > I-BY3797 > I-FT370114
    I-Z161 > FT376999
    that may have come from ancient samples. FTDNA does not provide sources. YFull doesn't discover them.

    My work with xlsx file requires constant updating. Currently, for technical reasons, I can't do this, so I have removed the link to it. Unfortunately, I couldn't update the above records anymore. I can send the xlsx file individually to those interested, but it is not updated yet.
    Last edited by an_I; 12-26-2020 at 06:48 PM.

  12. #8
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    Inactive link

    I'm sorry that I had to unlink the xlsx file, but it was for technical reasons.
    My work with this xlsx file requires constant updating. Currently, for technical reasons, I can't do this, so I have removed the link to it. Unfortunately, I couldn't update my post.
    If it is possible, please remove my link.

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