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Thread: The Royal House of Stewart (L21>DF13>DF41>L745)

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    Cool The Royal House of Stewart (L21>DF13>DF41>L745)

    I thought I would start a thread in the brand new DF41 subforum on the Royal House of Stewart, family of a number of famous kings and queens of Scotland and England. The Stewart y-dna has been tested and confirmed DF41>L745. A number of Stewart men with valid paper trails to the royal Stewarts have tested L745+, including Richard Scott, the 10th Duke of Buccleuch, direct y-dna descendant of King Charles II. Scott tested L745+ (S463+) with ScotlandsDNA. Scott's estate includes Drumlanrig Castle.

    The Stewarts are particularly interesting, not only because of their fame, but because they claim descent from Alan fitz Flaad, an 11th-century Breton knight who was granted the barony of Oswestry in Shropshire by King Henry I of England.
    Last edited by rms2; 01-22-2014 at 01:23 PM.

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    I had seen the project Stewart on FTDNA and is very interesting.
    Paternal: R1b-U152+ L2+ 7664023 et al., Pandolfo Guidi, b. ~1515, Ostra Vetere, Marches, Italy
    Maternal: U5b1b*, Delicata Frascone, b. ~1740, Sora, southern Lazio, Italy

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    We have a couple of Corsican Stuarts (variant spelling) in the L21 and DF41 projects who are L745+. I am a little rusty on the details of their story now, but, as I recall, their y-dna ancestors were among those who fled to France and Spain following the Jacobite Rebellion of 1745-46. I think one of the lines in Spain took the surname Estuarte.

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    Looks like a new SNP has been found by ScotlandsDNA that provides a deep spilt in Stewart L744/L745/L746 lineage. Larry posted the following link on the DF41 yahoo group:

    http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/...1-royalty.html

    Relevant snippet here:
    Sir John Stewart of Bonkyll died in 1298 fighting alongside William Wallace at the Battle of Falkirk, but his well-documented pedigree allowed ScotlandsDNA to carry out tests on his descendants, and those of his brother James, the 5th High Steward of Scotland and the grandfather of Robert II, the first Stewart king.

    Dr Jim Wilson, the group’s chief scientist, carried out ancestry tests on the descendants of Sir John’s sons Richard and Angus, and of his brother, and discovered a marker that originated more than 700 years ago.

    He said the exciting discovery was made possible by the remarkable pedigree of the Stewart family.

    The results show that that the modern descendants of both sons of Sir John carry a Y chromosome marker S781+ that is absent in the descendants of James.

    Dr Wilson added: “By a straightforward process of deduction that means that the marker arose in Sir John Stewart of Bonkyll, and not in his father. If it had, the descendants of James would also carry it, and they do not.” Having made the discovery, ScotlandsDNA checked its database of ancestry tests for men with the Stewart surname and found that 20 per cent of them share Sir John’s lineage, while 30 per cent are descended from his brother James.
    That would put S781 as having arisen in 13th century.

    -Paul
    (DF41+)

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    Cool

    I am still waiting for the Duke of Buccleuch to invite us all out to Drumlanrig Castle for a DF41+ reunion festival.

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    BritainsDNA press release about SNP S781.
    Royal Scotland, Royal Stewart

    Published: February 28, 2014

    In a ground-breaking new study, we have for the first time identified a historical character with the beginning of a single male DNA lineage, the man who founded a branch of the Royal Stewart line.
    http://www.britainsdna.com/about/press-releases

    ROYAL SCOTLAND, ROYAL STEWART.pdf
    It is precisely this sort of research that brings our history racing across the centuries. Historian,
    Alistair Moffat, commented that in the year of the 700th anniversary of Bannockburn, thousands of
    men can claim to be directly descended from the Stewarts who fought alongside Bruce and they can
    directly identify with generations of famous figures who shaped Scotland, Britain and Ireland.

    Dr Jim Wilson said “These findings arose from a combination of deep pedigrees and DNA data.
    We can then use DNA alone to determine if people are descended in the male line from Sir John
    of Bonkyll and in time other historical individuals – whether noblemen or commoners. This is the
    start of a new era in genealogy, where we will be able to draw family trees without paper records.”
    Last edited by Joe B; 03-05-2014 at 04:14 AM.
    YFull R1b-M269>L23>Z2103>Z2106>Z2108>Y14512>Y20971>Y22199, ISOGG R1b1a1a2a2c1b Y14416, FTDNA R-M64

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    I see that they have released the SNP position data with regards to Chromo 2. In case of S781 here's what's in the spreadsheet:

    hg19 chromo2ID alias type ref alt
    18538470 S781 S781 SNP G A

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    Cool

    Larry Walker posted something a few days ago over at the DF41 Facebook group that I just got around to reading today. It pretty much blows the tradition of Stewart patrilineal descent from the Breton knight Alan Fitz Flaad out of the water. The Stewarts are descended from Alan Fitz Flaad, but that is along a matriline and not their patriline.

    What is interesting is the alleged Stewart descent from Kenneth Mac Alpin, as follows:

    I: Patrilinear Descent of Walter the High Steward

    Note.- each succeeding generation is the son of the previous one.

    24.Ere of Irish Dairiada (Dal naraide)
    23.Fergus Mor Mae Ere, d.501
    22.Domangart
    21. K. Gabran of Dalriada, c.548-558
    20.Aedan Mac Gabran, d.608, m. Ygerna de Acqs
    19.Eochaid Buide (younger brother of the historical King Arthur)
    18.Donald Brec
    17.Domangart
    16.Eochaid, d.696
    15. Eochaid
    14. Aed the White (Aed Find)
    13.Eochaid the Poisonous, d.781
    12. Alpin
    11. K. Kenneth MacA]pin [sic]
    10. K. Aed (Aeth), d.878
    9.Doir, b.870-d.936
    8.Murdoch, b.900-d.959
    7.Ferguard, b.929-d.980
    6.Kenneth, b.960-d.1030
    5.Banquo, Thane of Lochaber, b.990-k.1043
    4.Fleance, Thane of Lochaber, b.1020-d. c.1064
    3.Walter, Thane of Lochaber, b. c.1045-d.1093
    2.Alan of Lochaber, b. c. 1088-d. 1 153, father of-
    1.WALTER FITZ ALAN, 1st HIGH STEWARD OF SCOTLAND, d. 1177

    Here is the link that contains the rather convincing argument:

    http://www.mckinneyandstewart.com/ge...nneyandStewart
    Last edited by rms2; 03-08-2014 at 06:49 PM.

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    There was some heated discussion of this over on that thread about the y-dna of the kings, chieftains, etc., of Scotland, Ireland, and Wales. It seems there are many claimants to descent from the kings of Dalriada, and not all of the claims can be correct, since the y haplogroups and/or subclades are different.

    Be that as it may, what is interesting to me about this is the idea that the Stewarts descend in their y-dna line not from Alan Fitz Flaad the Breton knight, but from Alan of Lochaber, the Scottish noble.

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    I see the first S781+ result in the DF41+ project has come, we already had a L744+/S781- result. In the case of the S781+ he belongs to the "Corsican Stuarts" who have been in Corsica since the mid 18th century.

    Here are the genetic differences from the s781- Stewart
    GD @ 67 STR's: 4
    GD @ 111 STR's: 8

    Quite a tight connection, given the age of the split. Though there could be some convergence on STR values due to random mutation. Be interesting to get some of the other L744+ who have a GD of 7-9 (at 67 markers) from the S781+ Stuart to test. From looking in the Stewart project on FTDNA there are at least two more S781+ confirmed men in it.


    -Paul
    (DF41+)

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