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Thread: The Royal House of Stewart (L21>DF13>DF41>L745)

  1. #31
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    Supposedly there was a Norman noble and contemporary of William the Conqueror named Roger de Montgomerie who remained In Normandy to control William's estates for him before later moving to England himself. Two Montgomery branches in the Montgomery Surname Project claim descent from him.
    One of these is a group of Montgomerys in the R-Z253 Project who share the same terminal SNP, BY35020; the SNP path is Z253>Z2534>ZZ5>A16>BY10>FGC53827>BY35020. Three have tested Big Y-500 and have an average of four private SNPs each.
    There is also a very close STR match to these BY35020+ Montgomerys who has the surname Rodger and who is derived for Z253, but has not tested for downstream SNPs.

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoxgi View Post
    Supposedly there was a Norman noble and contemporary of William the Conqueror named Roger de Montgomerie who remained In Normandy to control William's estates for him before later moving to England himself. Two Montgomery branches in the Montgomery Surname Project claim descent from him.
    One of these is a group of Montgomerys in the R-Z253 Project who share the same terminal SNP, BY35020; the SNP path is Z253>Z2534>ZZ5>A16>BY10>FGC53827>BY35020. Three have tested Big Y-500 and have an average of four private SNPs each.
    There is also a very close STR match to these BY35020+ Montgomerys who has the surname Rodger and who is derived for Z253, but has not tested for downstream SNPs.
    Could be, but claim is the key word. I wonder who is right.
     


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    Y-DNA: R1b-L21> DF13> Z39589> DF41> FGC5572> BY168> BY166> FGC36974> FGC36982> FGC36981

    Additional Data:
    Lactase Persistent:
    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1a

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  5. #33
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    I have a Narcissa McColphen in my tree; however, that last name does not exist. A Scottish Clan member told me that it could very well be McAlpin as when they emigrated here, they didn't care about spelling and the way the name is pronounced, McAlpin could very well have been misspelled in writing as McColphen. What would be your take on this?

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  7. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by chey62 View Post
    I have a Narcissa McColphen in my tree; however, that last name does not exist. A Scottish Clan member told me that it could very well be McAlpin as when they emigrated here, they didn't care about spelling and the way the name is pronounced, McAlpin could very well have been misspelled in writing as McColphen. What would be your take on this?
    Sounds reasonable to me for one. I've seen similar things on UK censuses.
    Living DNA's former Cautious mode:
    Wales-related ancestry: 86.8%
    Cornwall: 8%
    North England-related ancestry: 5.2%
    Y line: Peak District, England. Big Y match: Scania, Sweden; TMRCA 1,280 ybp (YFull);
    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales
    Mother's Y: traces to Llanvair Discoed, Wales

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  9. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonikW View Post
    Sounds reasonable to me for one. I've seen similar things on UK censuses.
    I agree. McColphen sounds like someone mishearing McAlpin, or slurring it after having had one or two too many.
     


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    Y-DNA: R1b-L21> DF13> Z39589> DF41> FGC5572> BY168> BY166> FGC36974> FGC36982> FGC36981

    Additional Data:
    Lactase Persistent:
    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1a

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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    ... I think there is good reason to see DF41 as a Brythonic haplogroup descended from the original or at least early Beaker invaders of the British Isles. Thus the Stewarts were "double backers", i.e., people who went from Britain to Bretagne (Brittany) and back to Britain.

    Not sure how that explains our Irish contingent, but otherwise DF41 in Britain looks like a predominantly Welsh and Scots phenomenon.
    I don't know the answers on these either but I think there is a good chance that R-L21 in Bretagne consists of all three - "double backers", "old homers" and "Irish immigrants."
    Bretagne and Normandy are so close to Britain that it's hard to believe there wasn't some R-L21 from nearly the start of R-L21. Of course, we have the historic reports of Britons fleeing Britain for Bretagne during the Anglo-Saxon times but those people could have just been finding refuge with the old clan. After the Anglo-Saxon times there were other possible cases of folks from the British Isles going over to France.
    The other thing to keep in mind is U106's pattern. There is a pretty hard breakpoint of U106 dropping off at Calais.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikewww View Post
    I don't know the answers on these either but I think there is a good chance that R-L21 in Bretagne consists of all three - "double backers", "old homers" and "Irish immigrants."
    Bretagne and Normandy are so close to Britain that it's hard to believe there wasn't some R-L21 from nearly the start of R-L21. Of course, we have the historic reports of Britons fleeing Britain for Bretagne during the Anglo-Saxon times but those people could have just been finding refuge with the old clan. After the Anglo-Saxon times there were other possible cases of folks from the British Isles going over to France.
    The other thing to keep in mind is U106's pattern. There is a pretty hard breakpoint of U106 dropping off at Calais.
    I don't disagree, but I was talking about DF41 and the Stewarts, not the much broader L21 haplogroup.
     


    Hidden Content


    Y-DNA: R1b-L21> DF13> Z39589> DF41> FGC5572> BY168> BY166> FGC36974> FGC36982> FGC36981

    Additional Data:
    Lactase Persistent:
    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1a

  13. #38
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    At FTDNA, on Family Finder, I have some Stewart matches who are in the Royal Stewart y-dna line (R1b-L746), but I never could tell if they share a common ancestor with me on my Stewart line, which I come by via a second great grandmother on my mom's side, Orpha Eliza Stewart, b. 1842 in McKenzie, Carroll, Tennessee, or on some other line.

    Now I have a new male Stewart match at Ancestry, but he hasn't answered the message I recently sent, and I don't know his y-dna haplogroup, since Ancestry doesn't report that. Well, I just noticed a male Stewart match at 23andMe, so I sent him a connection request and a message. 23andMe reports his y-dna haplogroup as R-S775, which is interesting, because S775 is just one step upstream of L746, which is the Royal Stewart SNP. So, I'm guessing this Stewart match of mine is also really R1b-L746 but that 23andMe stops its y-dna reporting on that line at S775.

    Hope this gentleman answers my message.
     


    Hidden Content


    Y-DNA: R1b-L21> DF13> Z39589> DF41> FGC5572> BY168> BY166> FGC36974> FGC36982> FGC36981

    Additional Data:
    Lactase Persistent:
    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1a

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  15. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    At FTDNA, on Family Finder, I have some Stewart matches who are in the Royal Stewart y-dna line (R1b-L746), but I never could tell if they share a common ancestor with me on my Stewart line, which I come by via a second great grandmother on my mom's side, Orpha Eliza Stewart, b. 1842 in McKenzie, Carroll, Tennessee, or on some other line.

    Now I have a new male Stewart match at Ancestry, but he hasn't answered the message I recently sent, and I don't know his y-dna haplogroup, since Ancestry doesn't report that. Well, I just noticed a male Stewart match at 23andMe, so I sent him a connection request and a message. 23andMe reports his y-dna haplogroup as R-S775, which is interesting, because S775 is just one step upstream of L746, which is the Royal Stewart SNP. So, I'm guessing this Stewart match of mine is also really R1b-L746 but that 23andMe stops its y-dna reporting on that line at S775.

    Hope this gentleman answers my message.
    I was just looking at ThruLines at Ancestry and found another Stewart male match. This one shares descent with me from John Stewart, b. 1738, so I sent him a message to see if he knows his y-dna haplogroup.

    Also just noticed a match at Ancestry who is also a match for me at FTDNA, and this one I know is R1b-L746. His tree is private, but he shares matches with me who share common Stewart ancestors with me. One of these matches is the male Stewart I mentioned in my last post, the one who never answered the message I sent him. He shares descent with me from Robert Stewart, b. 1774, the son of the John Stewart mentioned above.
     


    Hidden Content


    Y-DNA: R1b-L21> DF13> Z39589> DF41> FGC5572> BY168> BY166> FGC36974> FGC36982> FGC36981

    Additional Data:
    Lactase Persistent:
    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1a

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  17. #40
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    Just came across this thread. Never even thought about these lines as possibilities, but I do have one Stewart in my tree - a 4th great grandmother named Mary Stewart born in 1790, in Edinburgh. I haven't traced that line back any further as of yet.

    Editing to add: I do match a number of folks with the surname Stewart, but would have some work to do to see if it's through other connections or that one.
    Last edited by linthos; 12-30-2019 at 02:55 AM.
    Paper Trail - Primarily French Canadian and Scottish (through Canada), some English, smaller amounts of Native American and German.

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