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Thread: L21 in France

  1. #1
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    L21 in France

    Interesting, i bought access to the article, here are the frequencies for each location:
    I'll make some of my own pie charts to better understand it a little later.
    From:
    Y-chromosomal DNA analysis in French male lineages
    Authors: E. Ramos-Luis A. Blanco-Verea M. Bri´on V. Van
    Huffel P. S´anchez-Diz A. Carracedo


    Alsace (Strasbourg):

    BD (SRY10831.1): 0%
    E* (M96): 0%
    E1b1b1* (M35): 0%
    E1b1b1a (M78): 6.17%
    E1b1b1b (M81): 0%
    E1b1b1c* (M123): 0%
    E1b1b1c1 (M34): 3.7%
    F* (M213): 0%
    G (M201): 3.7%
    I* (M170): 7.41%
    I2a2 (M26): 1.23%
    J*(M304): 1.23%
    J1a (M62): 0%
    J2 (M172): 8.64%
    K*(M9): 1.23%
    L (M22): 0%
    N1c (Tat): 0%
    P* (92R7): 0%
    R1* (M173): 0%
    R1a (SRY10831.2): 3.7%
    R1b1* (P25): 0%
    R1b1b2* (M269): 19.75%
    R1b1b2a1* (U106): 14.81%
    R1b1b2a1a (U198): 0%
    R1b1b2a2d (SRY2627): 1.23%
    R1b1b2a2e (M222): 0%
    R1b1b2a2g (U152): 22.22%
    T (M70): 4.94%


    Auvergne (Clermont-Ferrand):
    BD (SRY10831.1): 0%
    E* (M96): 2.25%
    E1b1b1* (M35): 0%
    E1b1b1a (M78): 3.37%
    E1b1b1b (M81): 5.62%
    E1b1b1c* (M123): 0%
    E1b1b1c1 (M34): 1.12%
    F* (M213): 0%
    G (M201): 8.99%
    I* (M170): 3.37%
    I2a2 (M26): 1.12%
    J*(M304): 3.37%
    J1a (M62): 0%
    J2 (M172): 7.87%
    K*(M9): 1.12%
    L (M22): 0%
    N1c (Tat): 0%
    P* (92R7): 0%
    R1* (M173): 0%
    R1a (SRY10831.2): 5.62%
    R1b1* (P25): 0%
    R1b1b2* (M269): 31.46%
    R1b1b2a1* (U106): 3.37%
    R1b1b2a1a (U198): 0%
    R1b1b2a2d (SRY2627): 1.12%
    R1b1b2a2e (M222): 0%
    R1b1b2a2g (U152): 16.85%
    T (M70): 3.37%

    Bretagne (Rennes):
    BD (SRY10831.1): 0%
    E* (M96): 0%
    E1b1b1* (M35): 0%
    E1b1b1a (M78): 0%
    E1b1b1b (M81): 0%
    E1b1b1c* (M123): 0%
    E1b1b1c1 (M34): 0%
    F* (M213): 0%
    G (M201): 1.74%
    I* (M170): 12.17%
    I2a2 (M26): 0.87%
    J*(M304): 0.87%
    J1a (M62): 0%
    J2 (M172): 2.61%
    K*(M9): 0%
    L (M22): 0%
    N1c (Tat): 0%
    P* (92R7): 0%
    R1* (M173): 0%
    R1a (SRY10831.2): 0.87%
    R1b1* (P25): 0%
    R1b1b2* (M269): 68.7%
    R1b1b2a1* (U106): 3.48%
    R1b1b2a1a (U198): 0%
    R1b1b2a2d (SRY2627): 2.61%
    R1b1b2a2e (M222): 0%
    R1b1b2a2g (U152): 6.09%
    T (M70): 0%


    Île-de-France (Paris):
    BD (SRY10831.1): 0%
    E* (M96): 10.99%
    E1b1b1* (M35): 0%
    E1b1b1a (M78): 4.4%
    E1b1b1b (M81): 5.49%
    E1b1b1c* (M123): 0%
    E1b1b1c1 (M34): 1.1%
    F* (M213): 0%
    G (M201): 4.4%
    I* (M170): 6.59%
    I2a2 (M26): 1.1%
    J*(M304): 1.1%
    J1a (M62): 0%
    J2 (M172): 5.49%
    K*(M9): 0%
    L (M22): 0%
    N1c (Tat): 1.1%
    P* (92R7): 0%
    R1* (M173): 0%
    R1a (SRY10831.2): 2.2%
    R1b1* (P25): 1.1%
    R1b1b2* (M269): 31.87%
    R1b1b2a1* (U106): 7.69%
    R1b1b2a1a (U198): 0%
    R1b1b2a2d (SRY2627): 1.1%
    R1b1b2a2e (M222): 0%
    R1b1b2a2g (U152): 14.29%
    T (M70): 0%


    Midi-Pyrénées (Toulouse):
    BD (SRY10831.1): 0%
    E* (M96): 1.49%
    E1b1b1* (M35): 1.49%
    E1b1b1a (M78): 2.99%
    E1b1b1b (M81): 1.49%
    E1b1b1c* (M123): 0%
    E1b1b1c1 (M34): 1.49%
    F* (M213): 0%
    G (M201): 4.48%
    I* (M170): 8.96%
    I2a2 (M26): 1.49%
    J*(M304): 4.48%
    J1a (M62): 0%
    J2 (M172): 7.46%
    K*(M9): 0%
    L (M22): 0%
    N1c (Tat): 0%
    P* (92R7): 0%
    R1* (M173): 0%
    R1a (SRY10831.2): 2.99%
    R1b1* (P25): 1.49%
    R1b1b2* (M269): 31.34%
    R1b1b2a1* (U106): 4.48%
    R1b1b2a1a (U198): 0%
    R1b1b2a2d (SRY2627): 7.46%
    R1b1b2a2e (M222): 1.49%
    R1b1b2a2g (U152): 13.43%
    T (M70): 1.49%
    Seems like an errant M222 in Toulouse .
    Nord-Pas-de-Calais (Lille):
    BD (SRY10831.1): 0%
    E* (M96): 1.43%
    E1b1b1* (M35): 1.43%
    E1b1b1a (M78): 5.71%
    E1b1b1b (M81): 4.29%
    E1b1b1c* (M123): 0%
    E1b1b1c1 (M34): 0%
    F* (M213): 0%
    G (M201): 7.14%
    I* (M170): 5.71%
    I2a2 (M26): 4.29%
    J*(M304): 0%
    J1a (M62): 0%
    J2 (M172): 5.71%
    K*(M9): 0%
    L (M22): 0%
    N1c (Tat): 0%
    P* (92R7): 0%
    R1* (M173): 0%
    R1a (SRY10831.2): 4.29%
    R1b1* (P25): 2.86%
    R1b1b2* (M269): 28.57%
    R1b1b2a1* (U106): 8.57%
    R1b1b2a1a (U198): 0%
    R1b1b2a2d (SRY2627): 2.86%
    R1b1b2a2e (M222): 0%
    R1b1b2a2g (U152): 17.14%
    T (M70): 0%

    Provence-Alpes-Côte d’Azur (Marseille):
    BD (SRY10831.1): 2.22%
    E* (M96): 0%
    E1b1b1* (M35): 2.22%
    E1b1b1a (M78): 8.89%
    E1b1b1b (M81): 2.22%
    E1b1b1c* (M123): 0%
    E1b1b1c1 (M34): 0%
    F* (M213): 0%
    G (M201): 6.67%
    I* (M170): 6.67%
    I2a2 (M26): 2.22%
    J*(M304): 0%
    J1a (M62): 0%
    J2 (M172): 6.67%
    K*(M9): 0%
    L (M22): 0%
    N1c (Tat): 0%
    P* (92R7): 4.44%
    R1* (M173): 0%
    R1a (SRY10831.2): 0%
    R1b1* (P25): 2.22%
    R1b1b2* (M269): 37.78%
    R1b1b2a1* (U106): 0%
    R1b1b2a1a (U198): 0%
    R1b1b2a2d (SRY2627): 4.44%
    R1b1b2a2e (M222): 0%
    R1b1b2a2g (U152): 11.11%
    T (M70): 2.2%
    Last edited by Anglecynn; 01-22-2014 at 03:19 PM.

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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anglecynn View Post
    Interesting, i bought access to the article, here are the frequencies for each location:
    I'll make some of my own pie charts to better understand it a little later.
    From:
    Y-chromosomal DNA analysis in French male lineages
    Authors: E. Ramos-Luis A. Blanco-Verea M. Bri´on V. Van
    Huffel P. S´anchez-Diz A. Carracedo

    <<--snip--->>
    For such a recent study (December 2013) it's a fairly piss-poor selection of SNP's. What no P312? No L21? (let alone No DF13?), No DF27? Ridiculous, no wonder the M269* figure is at 68.7% in Brittany!

    Still thanks for posting the summary.

    -Paul
    (DF41+)
    Last edited by Dubhthach; 01-22-2014 at 03:56 PM.

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  5. #3
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    L21 in France

    I'm opening this thread up as it is an important conversation so I'll move some related posts here.

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  7. #4
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    Thanks for moving it.

    I'll upload some pie charts and things later on, there are some in the article, but they're not so clear.

  8. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anglecynn View Post
    Interesting, i bought access to the article, here are the frequencies for each location:
    ...
    From:
    Y-chromosomal DNA analysis in French male lineages
    Authors: E. Ramos-Luis A. Blanco-Verea M. Bri´on V. Van
    Huffel P. S´anchez-Diz A. Carracedo


    Alsace (Strasbourg):
    R1b1b2* (M269): 19.75%
    R1b1b2a2e (M222): 0%

    Auvergne (Clermont-Ferrand):
    R1b1b2* (M269): 31.46%
    R1b1b2a2e (M222): 0%

    Bretagne (Rennes):
    R1b1b2* (M269): 68.7%
    R1b1b2a2e (M222): 0%

    Île-de-France (Paris):
    R1b1b2* (M269): 31.87%
    R1b1b2a2e (M222): 0%

    Midi-Pyrénées (Toulouse):
    R1b1b2* (M269): 28.57%
    R1b1b2a2e (M222): 0%

    Nord-Pas-de-Calais (Lille):
    R1b1b2* (M269): 28.57%
    R1b1b2a2e (M222): 0%

    Provence-Alpes-Côte d’Azur (Marseille):
    R1b1b2* (M269): 37.78%
    R1b1b2a2e (M222): 0%
    The R1b1b2* (M269*) in the above represents Z2103+, L51*, L11*, P312*, DF99 and DF27xSRY2627 to go along with L21xM222.

    M222 is basically negligible so we can look at the R1b1b* as the maximums for L21 in these regions. Z2103, L51*, L11*, DF99 probably only take up a couple of percentage points. That's a bit dangerous to assume, though. I don't think P312* is too big but that is also a bit dangerous.

    That leaves primarily DF27xSRY2627 to deal with estimate/project the remainder being L21.

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  10. #6
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    My feeling is that DF27 makes up a big chunk of that M269*. If we look at busby there was significant chunks of what he defined as P312* (xL21, xU152, xSRY2627). In this day and age publishing a report like the above which doesn't even keep up with Busby (2011) is rather poor form if you ask me.

    -Paul
    (DF41+)

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  12. #7
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    I'm running out of time to be on the computer this morning, so I don't have time to look things up, but wasn't Ramos-Luis et al updated with, at least, L21 results?

    Maybe I am misremembering.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    I'm running out of time to be on the computer this morning, so I don't have time to look things up, but wasn't Ramos-Luis et al updated with, at least, L21 results?

    Maybe I am misremembering.
    This is from their December 2013 report/update or whatever it was. This is only a few weeks old as far as publishing goes. No L21 in sight that I can see, just testing for M222.

    They sorely need to test for L21 and DF27, at the least.

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  15. #9
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    I downloaded the Busby spreadsheet and created the following PNG, deleted some of the columns just left what I felt were relevant, beats typing it out anyways!



    If that appears bit squashed browse directly to image here:
    http://compsoc.nuigalway.ie/~dubhthach/france2.png

    -Paul
    (DF41+)
    Last edited by Dubhthach; 01-22-2014 at 04:58 PM. Reason: removed longitude/latitude info

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    Feels like someone should be spinning a truncheon and saying 'nothing to see here'

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