Page 11 of 13 FirstFirst ... 910111213 LastLast
Results 101 to 110 of 124

Thread: Ancien Sardinian Nuragh sample

  1. #101
    Registered Users
    Posts
    81
    Sex

    Italy
    Quote Originally Posted by Piquerobi View Post
    Indeed, it has. However, before DNA testing began, distinct physical features related to farmers had been verified. Nowadays it has been confirmed they had a distinct genetic profile which correlates to what had been previously found based on the remains alone. On this case, DNA testing has confirmed previous findings of physical anthropology.

    To quote an example, and even if I do not subscribe to his work (never have; and DNA testing has debunked many of his theories), this is what Carleton Coon said about Neolithic Europe:



    And about Sardinians, the ones who are closest to them, genetically:



    If we replace "Nordic nucleus" by the steppe input in Corsica and "Mediterranean" for EEF, he is essentially right. He is also right in that the farmers were a group of people sharing common features and a common origin (for the most part), which DNA testing nowadays has proven is true.
    Yes, your quote Is essentialy correct. I'm investigating this "Subsequent immigrations of other Mediterranean peoples have affected the racial composition of these islands but little."

    As i wrote in another thread Marcus, Fernandes and Moots believe that there was 100% continuity in Sardinia between the Neolithic and the Bronze Age while according to Villalba Mouco:

    "However, applying the same qpAdm model (text S7, fig. S3, and table S2.5), we detect a previously unreported amount of Iran_N-like ancestry in central Mediterranean groups from Sardinia, ranging from 2.8 ± 1.2% in Sardinia_Chalcolithic to 5.8 ± 1% in Sardinia_Nuragic_BA. Adding Iran_N as a source to model Sicily_EBA improves the model fit but without reaching P values ≥0.05, making gene flow from the Italian Peninsula to Sardinia more likely (Italy_CA also shows Iran_N-like ancestry) than from Sicily (Sicily_EBA)"

    And Patterson:

    "In Sardinia, a majority of the BA samples
    474 do not have Steppe pastoralist-related ancestry. In a few individuals, we found evidence for steppe
    475 ancestry, though in most cases, the Steppe pastoralist-related ancestry proportion overlapped 0,
    476 and the dates were very noisy (Table SH). Using Iron Age samples from Sardinia, we inferred the
    477 gene flow occurred ~2,600 BCE, though there is large uncertainty associated with this estimate
    478 (2,614 +/- 560 BCE). "

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Reozek For This Useful Post:

     Piquerobi (04-04-2022)

  3. #102
    Registered Users
    Posts
    81
    Sex

    Italy
    I was looking at the Y DNA of the Sardinian Bell Beakers on this site https://haplotree.info/maps/ancient_...6&ybp=500000,0

    3 Beaker men from the North West of the Island are G-L166, the same Y DNA of two Beaker men from Southern Germany and a Swiss of the Horgen culture https://haplotree.info/maps/ancient_...6&ybp=500000,0

    This haplogroup was not found in the Sardinian Neolithic samples

    No R1b-M269 for the moment

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Reozek For This Useful Post:

     Kale (05-11-2022)

  5. #103
    Registered Users
    Posts
    567
    Sex
    Location
    Greece
    Y-DNA (P)
    G-L91>FTA40859
    mtDNA (M)
    T2f2d
    mtDNA (P)
    T2c1

    Quote Originally Posted by Reozek View Post
    I was looking at the Y DNA of the Sardinian Bell Beakers on this site https://haplotree.info/maps/ancient_...6&ybp=500000,0

    3 Beaker men from the North West of the Island are G-L166, the same Y DNA of two Beaker men from Southern Germany and a Swiss of the Horgen culture https://haplotree.info/maps/ancient_...6&ybp=500000,0

    This haplogroup was not found in the Sardinian Neolithic samples

    No R1b-M269 for the moment
    L166 (FGC5672) is also where Ötzi belongs. Do you know where I can see the haplogroups of the Sardinian Neolithic samples? I remember they were mostly I2. Thanks

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to peloponnesian For This Useful Post:

     Principe (05-11-2022)

  7. #104
    Registered Users
    Posts
    4,209
    Sex
    Location
    USA
    Ethnicity
    Italo-Iberian
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-U152>L2>FGC10543
    mtDNA (M)
    H4a1-T152C!

    United States of America Italy 1861-1946 Spain
    Quote Originally Posted by Reozek View Post
    I was looking at the Y DNA of the Sardinian Bell Beakers on this site https://haplotree.info/maps/ancient_...6&ybp=500000,0

    3 Beaker men from the North West of the Island are G-L166, the same Y DNA of two Beaker men from Southern Germany and a Swiss of the Horgen culture https://haplotree.info/maps/ancient_...6&ybp=500000,0

    This haplogroup was not found in the Sardinian Neolithic samples

    No R1b-M269 for the moment
    Sicilian Bell Beaker R-M269+ samples published by Fernandes et al (2020):

    Sample I3123: R1b1a1a2a1a2a1-Z195+ (P312+ ZZ11+ (2C,1G) but DF27- (1G) but Z195+ (1A), Sicily, Buffa 2287-2044 calBCE (3760±30 BP, PSUAMS-3892)
    Sample I8561: R1b1a1a2a1a2a1-Z195+ (ZZ11+ 16C,1G) Z195+ U152-, Sicily, Isnello, 2346-2199 calBCE (3825±20 BP, PSUAMS-4873)
    Sample I11443: R1b1a1a2a1a2 P312+ U152? DF27? (looks to be ZZ11- (16C,0G)), Sicily, Buffa, 2279-2102 calBCE (4090±60 BP, OxA-32773)
    Sample I3124: R1b1a1a2a1a2P312+ U152? DF27? L2-(ZZ11- (1C,0G)), Sicily, Buffa, 1948-1777 calBCE (3545±20 BP, PSUAMS-4317)
    Sample I11442: R1b1a1a2a1a2 P312+ DF27- U152? L2- (P312+ > Z40481 > FGC84729 > ZZ37+ (3C,1A) > FGC72633+ (1A)), Sicily, Buffa, 2281-2047 calBCE [2273-2047 calBCE (3750±20 BP, PSUAMS-4547), 2281-2062 calBCE (3765±20 BP, PSUAMS-4620)]
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

  8. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to R.Rocca For This Useful Post:

     lg16 (05-12-2022),  Luso (05-11-2022),  Reozek (05-14-2022)

  9. #105
    Registered Users
    Posts
    81
    Sex

    Italy
    Quote Originally Posted by R.Rocca View Post
    Sicilian Bell Beaker R-M269+ samples published by Fernandes et al (2020):

    Sample I3123: R1b1a1a2a1a2a1-Z195+ (P312+ ZZ11+ (2C,1G) but DF27- (1G) but Z195+ (1A), Sicily, Buffa 2287-2044 calBCE (3760±30 BP, PSUAMS-3892)
    Sample I8561: R1b1a1a2a1a2a1-Z195+ (ZZ11+ 16C,1G) Z195+ U152-, Sicily, Isnello, 2346-2199 calBCE (3825±20 BP, PSUAMS-4873)
    Sample I11443: R1b1a1a2a1a2 P312+ U152? DF27? (looks to be ZZ11- (16C,0G)), Sicily, Buffa, 2279-2102 calBCE (4090±60 BP, OxA-32773)
    Sample I3124: R1b1a1a2a1a2P312+ U152? DF27? L2-(ZZ11- (1C,0G)), Sicily, Buffa, 1948-1777 calBCE (3545±20 BP, PSUAMS-4317)
    Sample I11442: R1b1a1a2a1a2 P312+ DF27- U152? L2- (P312+ > Z40481 > FGC84729 > ZZ37+ (3C,1A) > FGC72633+ (1A)), Sicily, Buffa, 2281-2047 calBCE [2273-2047 calBCE (3750±20 BP, PSUAMS-4547), 2281-2062 calBCE (3765±20 BP, PSUAMS-4620)]
    I was talking about Sardinia not Sicily. No R1b M269 in Sardinia Bell Beakers, they were mostly G2a and H-Z19049 (from Spain?)
    Last edited by Reozek; 05-14-2022 at 06:43 AM.

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Reozek For This Useful Post:

     R.Rocca (05-14-2022)

  11. #106
    Registered Users
    Posts
    81
    Sex

    Italy
    Quote Originally Posted by peloponnesian View Post
    L166 (FGC5672) is also where Ötzi belongs. Do you know where I can see the haplogroups of the Sardinian Neolithic samples? I remember they were mostly I2. Thanks
    Here https://haplotree.info/maps/ancient_...y&ybp=500000,0
    Last edited by Reozek; 05-14-2022 at 06:46 AM.

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to Reozek For This Useful Post:

     peloponnesian (05-14-2022)

  13. #107
    Registered Users
    Posts
    81
    Sex

    Italy
    Another interesting case

    Two Bronze Age Sardinians (Nuragic) from Seulo are R-L754. This haplogroup was not present in the (few) Neolithic and Chalcolithic samples from the Island nor in any Cardial Ware sample from Southern Europe. It was found instead in two Beaker men from Bavaria and a LBK from Baden, Germany also in many samples from the Volga region

    https://haplotree.info/maps/ancient_...4&ybp=500000,0
    Last edited by Reozek; 05-18-2022 at 11:53 AM.

  14. #108
    Registered Users
    Posts
    913
    Sex
    Location
    Belgrade
    Ethnicity
    Slavic
    Nationality
    Serb
    Y-DNA (P)
    I2-BY55783>BY79593

    Serbia Montenegro Bosnia and Herzegovina Croatia Split-Dalmatia
    As expected, all higher coverage Sardinian R1b samples belong to (almost) exclusively Sardinian subclades M18 and Z30267/V35:


    MA110; 1220-1050 BC; Ingurtosu Mannu, Donori, CA; Nuragic II_LBA; R1b1b2a1-V2219>V88>PF6343>PF6287>Y7777>Y8451>Z30267* (xV35)

    MA89; 3370-3110 BC; Cannas di Sotto, t. 12, Carbonia, CI; Filigosa_ECA; R1b1b2a1-V2219>V88>PF6343>PF6287>Y7777>Y8451>pre-Z30267

    SUA002; 2270-2030 BC; Riparo sotto roccia Su Asedazzu, Seulo, CA; Bonnanaro A_EBA; R1b1b1-V2219>V88>PF6343>PF6287>PF6362>M18

    SUA001; 1410-1230 BC; Riparo sotto roccia Su Asedazzu, Seulo, CA; Nuragic I_MBA; R1b1b1-V2219>V88>PF6343>PF6287>PF6362>M18

    SUA003; 1260-1060 BC; Riparo sotto roccia Su Asedazzu, Seulo, CA; Nuragic II_LBA; R1b1b1-V2219>V88>PF6343>PF6287>PF6362>M18

    I0209; 1800-1600 BC; Su Grutta ’e is Bittuleris, Seulo, CA; Bonnanaro A_EBA; R1b1b1-V2219>V88>PF6343>PF6287>PF6362>M18

    I3743; 2134-1947 BC; Su Stampu Erdi, Seulo, CA; Nuragic I_EBA; R1b1b1-V2219>V88>PF6343>PF6287>PF6362>M18

  15. The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to Pribislav For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (05-18-2022),  alchemist223 (05-20-2022),  Archetype0ne (05-18-2022),  Bruzmi (05-18-2022),  Ebizur (05-18-2022),  J.delajara (05-26-2022),  Kale (05-19-2022),  lg16 (05-18-2022),  Megalophias (05-18-2022),  peloponnesian (05-18-2022),  Riverman (05-18-2022),  Ruderico (05-18-2022),  VladimirTaraskin (05-18-2022)

  16. #109
    Registered Users
    Posts
    81
    Sex

    Italy
    Ops. Wrong post

    And the G-L166? Are they indigenous? The site that i have linked doesn't include the samples from Marcus et al 2020

    Edit: these are the Y DNA from Marcus et al.

    IMG_20220518_185505.jpg

    Only three samples from Neolithic and ECA, i trought we had more....we need many more samples from that period, only J2b L283 Is surely intrusive
    Last edited by Reozek; 05-18-2022 at 05:00 PM.

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to Reozek For This Useful Post:

     peloponnesian (05-18-2022)

  18. #110
    Registered Users
    Posts
    913
    Sex
    Location
    Belgrade
    Ethnicity
    Slavic
    Nationality
    Serb
    Y-DNA (P)
    I2-BY55783>BY79593

    Serbia Montenegro Bosnia and Herzegovina Croatia Split-Dalmatia
    Quote Originally Posted by Reozek View Post
    Ops. Wrong post

    And the G-L166? Are they indigenous? The site that i have linked doesn't include the samples from Marcus et al 2020

    There is no L166 among ancient Sardinian samples. All G2a2a-L91 samples from Sardinia belong to the Sardinian-specific clade Z6802, which is a sister clade of L166.

  19. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Pribislav For This Useful Post:

     alchemist223 (05-18-2022),  Reozek (05-18-2022)

Page 11 of 13 FirstFirst ... 910111213 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. ADN ancien Afrique du Nord (Ibéromaurusien)
    By E_M81_I3A in forum French
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: 02-05-2020, 04:16 AM
  2. Ancien I1-M253>Z58
    By claudefrancis in forum I1-M253
    Replies: 107
    Last Post: 07-24-2019, 09:47 AM
  3. Sardinian
    By digital_noise in forum DNA.Land
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 01-03-2019, 03:34 AM
  4. Gedmatch results of a Sardinian sample
    By Piquerobi in forum Autosomal (auDNA)
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 04-05-2018, 10:41 AM
  5. Sardinian mtDNA
    By Krefter in forum H
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-20-2016, 10:31 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •