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Thread: Has the weapon Seax gave the name to the Saxons German tribes?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    It is established that any link between the Saxons and Scythians is a fantasy, several in the past have attempted to etymologically link Saxon with certain terms associated with Scythian groups. What is your evidence for the Celts being the source of the seax? That is an assumption based solely off the use of a dagger? I think most populations had items similar to daggers, are they not a potential source?
    Well, it seems from the few research that I have done that are lots of Celtic daggers found in archaelogical sites related to Celts.
    Some of these daggers are looking exactly as the Seax.
    Regarding to the first part of the thread, the legendary spear of Odin:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gungnir
    I never knew till yesterday that the main weapon of the Norse people was the Spear, because I seen movies with Vikings and those movies, Vikings are using axes and swords, not spears.
    However, archaelogical discoveries are showing that the most used weapon of Norse people was the spear.
    Last edited by mihaitzateo; 12-22-2019 at 02:11 PM.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mihaitzateo View Post
    Well, it seems from the few research that I have done that are lots of Celtic daggers found in archaelogical sites related to Celts.
    Some of these daggers are looking exactly as the Seax.
    Regarding to the first part of the thread, the legendary spear of Odin:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gungnir
    I never knew till yesterday that the main weapon of the Norse people was the Spear, because I seen movies with Vikings and those movies, Vikings are using axes and swords, not spears.
    However, archaelogical discoveries are showing that the most used weapon of Norse people was the spear.
    The thing is, daggers are not exclusive to Celtic populations, daggers and similar tools/weapons are found throughout the world with various cultures. They are not something restricted to Celts. Spears are not a restricted weapon of just the Norse either, as evidenced by the Anglo-Saxon weaponry link you provided earlier: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapon...s_and_javelins and I don't like just using wikipedia links but: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migration_Period_spear. Swords were expensive and they were not absent from Norse soldiers armaments or their continental Germanic or Anglo-Saxon counterparts.

    Odin's legendary spear, Gungnir, has a counterpart in Celtic (more specifically Irish) mythology too, called Ge Bulg and it is the spear used by C Chulainn. Did that come from the Celts to Germanic mythology? Or perhaps, a shared Indo-European culture is the source for their similar mythology?

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  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    The thing is, daggers are not exclusive to Celtic populations, daggers and similar tools/weapons are found throughout the world with various cultures. They are not something restricted to Celts. Spears are not a restricted weapon of just the Norse either, as evidenced by the Anglo-Saxon weaponry link you provided earlier: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapon...s_and_javelins and I don't like just using wikipedia links but: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migration_Period_spear. Swords were expensive and they were not absent from Norse soldiers armaments or their continental Germanic or Anglo-Saxon counterparts.

    Odin's legendary spear, Gungnir, has a counterpart in Celtic (more specifically Irish) mythology too, called Ge Bulg and it is the spear used by C Chulainn. Did that come from the Celts to Germanic mythology? Or perhaps, a shared Indo-European culture is the source for their similar mythology?
    Irish are a special type of Celts, they were most Northern Celtic ethnicity. Insular Celts, that were calling themselves Gaels, from what I understand.
    The Celts from Germany were Continental Celts and where is the proof that Continental Celts from Germany were using spears, at least as secondary weapons?
    Or where is the proof that normal Irish warriors were using a spear?
    It seems Fianna were using a spear, but those were the very elite warriors of the Irish.

    A thing that I found is some mercenaries that fought for the Gaulish Celts,against Romans, were armed with spears:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaesatae
    So, the normal Gaulish people called these spear users with a special name, because normal Gaulish warrior was using a sword.
    So, even if C Chulainn was using a spear, that does not means that average Irish warrior was using a spear, in the battle.
    There is a difference between a spear and a javelin.
    Last edited by mihaitzateo; 12-22-2019 at 09:30 PM.

  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by mihaitzateo View Post
    Irish are a special type of Celts, they were most Northern Celtic ethnicity. Insular Celts, that were calling themselves Gaels, from what I understand.
    The Celts from Germany were Continental Celts and where is the proof that Continental Celts from Germany were using spears, at least as secondary weapons?
    Or where is the proof that normal Irish warriors were using a spear?
    It seems Fianna were using a spear, but those were the very elite warriors of the Irish.
    You've missed my point here. Anyway, there is plenty of evidence of Irish warriors using spears and darts. These are all weapons that aren't restricted to one group of people, they are old concepts that would have spread out from far earlier times of human history. I'm not sure what you mean by "Irish are a special type of Celts". Fun fact the etymology of Gael actually traces back to an Old Welsh loanword into Irish Guoidel meaning "wild man".

    A thing that I found is some mercenaries that fought for the Gaulish Celts,against Romans, were armed with spears:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaesatae
    So, the normal Gaulish people called these spear users with a special name, because normal Gaulish warrior was using a sword.
    So, even if C Chulainn was using a spear, that does not means that average Irish warrior was using a spear, in the battle.
    There is a difference between a spear and a javelin.
    I was merely showing the similarities between Odin and C Chulainn. A javelin is a light spear intended for throwing IIRC, a dart is a smaller weapon more akin to a large arrow.

  6. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    You've missed my point here. Anyway, there is plenty of evidence of Irish warriors using spears and darts. These are all weapons that aren't restricted to one group of people, they are old concepts that would have spread out from far earlier times of human history. I'm not sure what you mean by "Irish are a special type of Celts". Fun fact the etymology of Gael actually traces back to an Old Welsh loanword into Irish Guoidel meaning "wild man".



    I was merely showing the similarities between Odin and C Chulainn. A javelin is a light spear intended for throwing IIRC, a dart is a smaller weapon more akin to a large arrow.
    Well, the usage of the spear in case of Scandinavians was even mentioned in the Scandinavian sagas, when is about the conflict from Vanir and Aesir.
    C Chulainn is an Irish hero, not an Irish Gaelic god, while Odin is a Scandinavian and Germanic god.

    From what research I have done is told that Scandos had the spear as the most important weapon.
    In lost of archaeological sites of Saxons from England, are also found spears.But not in all of them.
    However, the difference between the average Scando and average Saxon is that the average Saxon was also having at least a Seax, if not a Seax and a Sword.
    It seems that the main reason for which the Scandos were using a spear was that Odin main weapon was also a spear.
    The main reason for which the Saxons wanted to also get a sword was that Seaxneath was using a sword.
    If they could not afford a sword, the Saxons were having a sword in miniature, the Seax, which they were using mostly as "all purpose tool".
    The Seax was carried by both women and males while the spears were carried mostly by males ,and surely the spears were not an all purpose tool.

    https://regia.org/research/warfare/seax.htm
    If we extend a little the logic, the main reason for which Saxons were carrying a Seax was that it was the symbol of Seaxneath.
    To support this idea, is the fact that today English and Saxons from Lower Saxony, Germany are no longer using a Seax.
    So, it is possible that after English become Christians, those of them of Saxon culture did not felt the need to carry a Seax with them, as a symbol of Seaxneath.
    Also, it is the fact that the main use of a Seax was that of "An all purpose tool", good for eating, cooking, etc and that the Seax was not weapon, but was also used as an weapon, when needed.

    (the references are taken from another forum, the supposition that the Seax was also a symbol of Seaneath, is from me)
    References
    1. ^ Docherty, Frank, The Anglo Saxon Broken Back Seax. Retrieved 27th November 2005.
    2. ^ a b c Levick, Ben (1991) & Williamson, Roland (1999). Regia Anglorum scramseax page. Retrieved 27 Septrmber 2005.
    3. ^ Bagley, Michael S. (2004). Re-enactment events Seax page. Retrieved 27 September 2005.
    4. ^ a Burton, Mark (2002) Milites deBec Equipment. Retrieved 27 September 2005.

    I supposed that the Seax was also a religious artefact, linked to Seaxneath.
    In our days, the Swiss and their all-purpose Swiss knife, are the people that still carry an all purpose knife with them.
    That Swiss are a Celtic ethnicity, I think is well known.


    There is also an English folk song,more recent (no idea about the years, it dates from at least 1613 AD), about a wife that is cheating her rich husband and when the husband comes and finds his wife sleeping near the other male, the other male is telling to the husband:
    ""Oh, I can't get up, I won't get up
    I can't get up for my life
    For you have two long beaten swords
    And I not a pocket knife""
    (the song is Matty Groves).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matty_Groves
    Last edited by mihaitzateo; 12-25-2019 at 12:01 PM.

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