Page 1 of 49 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 482

Thread: Ancient Migrations

  1. #1
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,689
    Sex
    Location
    US
    Ethnicity
    India Andhra Kamma Telugu
    Nationality
    US
    Y-DNA (P)
    HM82 Z5890+CTS8144+
    mtDNA (M)
    U2a1a

    United States of America India

    Post Ancient Migrations

    In this thread, we try to gather all the records of movements of Haplogroups local to South Asia.

    The ancient lines of Surya (Solar) and Chandra (lunar) dynasties had new groups of Naga (Serpent) dynasties join later and the Chandra dynasty split into Soma, Yadu, Nanda, Gollas etc... Given high percent of H1 people among Chandra Vamsa/Yadu Vamsa derived castes, the chances of H1 being the original Haplogroup of Chandra vamsa/Yadu vamsa is high. The Naga vamsa might have been a mix of H1 and L1 people. The Surya vamsa is more a mystery since the original Surya vamsa has undergone many transformations due to Buddhism movement/later Hindu revival during late Iron Age and early Medieval era. However the chances of R1a or J2a or even G2 being the main Haplogroup is high. The other Yadu tribes like Nanda vamsa might have been a mix of H1 and F1 people.

    A conservative estimate of the dynasties times time shown in the map below.



    The ancient texts talk about the Chandra dynasties moving further West.

    "Ayu went east became famous Ayavas, his is the Yamuna-Ganga region", while "Amavasu went west, his is Afghanistan, Parshu and West Panjab"



    "In the case of ancient N. India, we do not know anything about the immigration of various tribes and clans, except for a few elusive remarks in the RV (= Rigveda), SB (= Shatapatha Brahmana) or BSS ( = Baudhāyana śrautasūtra). This text retains at 18.44 :397.9 sqq. the most pregnant memory, perhaps, of an immigration of the Indo-Aryans into Northern India and of their split into two groups: pran Ayuh pravavraja. Tasyaite Kuru-Pancalah Kasi-Videha ity. Etad Ayavam pravrajam. Pratyan amavasus. Tasyaite
    Gandharvarayas Parsavo 'ratta ity. Etad Amavasavam. "Ayu went eastwards. His (people) are the Kuru-Pancala and the Kasi Videha. This is the Ayava migration. (His other people) stayed at home in the West. His people are the Gandhari, Parsu and Aratta. This is the Amavasava (group)...the text makes a differentiation between the peoples of the Panjab and the territories West of it on one hand, and the "properly Vedic" tribes of Madhyadesa and the adjacent country East of it."


    In 1989, Witzel commented [Witzel, Michael. 'Tracing the Vedic Dialects'. In Dialectes dans les literatures indo-aryennes; Publications de l'Institute de Civilization Indienne, Serie in-8, Fascicule 55, ed. by C. Caillat, Diffusion de Boccard: Paris (1989)]:
    Y: H-M69 -> H-M82 -> SK1225 -> H-Z5888 -> H-Z5890 -> H-CTS8144 [CTS8144/PF1741/M5498] -> Z34531 (H1a1a4b3b1a8~)
    found 2875 BCE -> Jiroft/IVC Periphery 11459 Shahr-i-Sokte BA2
    mtDNA:U2a1a

    G25 Ancients Dist 0.79 IND_Roopkund_A 51.05 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 46.64 MAR_Iberomaurusian2.04PAK_Katelai_IA0.19 TKM_Gonur2_BA 0.08

    Lactose Persistence rs3213871 rs4988243 rs4988183 rs3769005 rs2236783
    found -> DA125, Kangju

  2. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to tipirneni For This Useful Post:

     Amber29 (12-24-2019),  discreetmaverick (12-27-2019),  laltota (12-26-2019),  MonkeyDLuffy (12-25-2019),  noman (12-24-2019)

  3. #2
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,689
    Sex
    Location
    US
    Ethnicity
    India Andhra Kamma Telugu
    Nationality
    US
    Y-DNA (P)
    HM82 Z5890+CTS8144+
    mtDNA (M)
    U2a1a

    United States of America India
    Trade Networks during the early years of Chandra vamsa played a major part in movement of H1 people accross Mesopotamian trade routes. The indigenous Jebu cattle might have been a traded commodity during the early years by these early H1 people. The early interactions with cattle can been seen in the seals of IVC showing the cattle and Hindu God Shiva like person.
    The Yadu Vamsa people were the main rearers of the Cattle during this expansion of South Asian people (H1 haplogroup) into Mesopotamian trade networks and the introduction of the IVC cattle into Middle eastern communities.

    Y: H-M69 -> H-M82 -> SK1225 -> H-Z5888 -> H-Z5890 -> H-CTS8144 [CTS8144/PF1741/M5498] -> Z34531 (H1a1a4b3b1a8~)
    found 2875 BCE -> Jiroft/IVC Periphery 11459 Shahr-i-Sokte BA2
    mtDNA:U2a1a

    G25 Ancients Dist 0.79 IND_Roopkund_A 51.05 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 46.64 MAR_Iberomaurusian2.04PAK_Katelai_IA0.19 TKM_Gonur2_BA 0.08

    Lactose Persistence rs3213871 rs4988243 rs4988183 rs3769005 rs2236783
    found -> DA125, Kangju

  4. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to tipirneni For This Useful Post:

     laltota (12-26-2019),  pegasus (12-26-2019),  pnb123 (12-26-2019)

  5. #3
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,689
    Sex
    Location
    US
    Ethnicity
    India Andhra Kamma Telugu
    Nationality
    US
    Y-DNA (P)
    HM82 Z5890+CTS8144+
    mtDNA (M)
    U2a1a

    United States of America India
    The Hindu literature is organized into Yugas, a time cycle.

    The main expansion time of Chandra vamsa & Yadus were during the Dwapara yuga which corresponds to 6676 BC to 3976 BC according to conservative estimates. Given that Hindu literature talks big about the expansion of Puru kings and the Yadu kings during this yuga, also Lord Krishna had 16108 wives according to Srimad Bhagavatam, the peak expansion time of this Haplogroup H might have been during this 6th to 3rd Millenium. The modeling done by the Poznik et all https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4884158/ in their study shows similar results differing by few hundred years.





    The aDNA during that time (after few hundred years) found in Shahr-e-Sokhte to collaborate this historical event.
    Y: H-M69 -> H-M82 -> SK1225 -> H-Z5888 -> H-Z5890 -> H-CTS8144 [CTS8144/PF1741/M5498] -> Z34531 (H1a1a4b3b1a8~)
    found 2875 BCE -> Jiroft/IVC Periphery 11459 Shahr-i-Sokte BA2
    mtDNA:U2a1a

    G25 Ancients Dist 0.79 IND_Roopkund_A 51.05 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 46.64 MAR_Iberomaurusian2.04PAK_Katelai_IA0.19 TKM_Gonur2_BA 0.08

    Lactose Persistence rs3213871 rs4988243 rs4988183 rs3769005 rs2236783
    found -> DA125, Kangju

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to tipirneni For This Useful Post:

     laltota (12-26-2019)

  7. #4
    Jio sher jio!

  8. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to prashantvaidwan For This Useful Post:

     laltota (12-26-2019),  tipirneni (12-25-2019)

  9. #5
    Registered Users
    Posts
    279
    Sex
    Location
    pakistan
    Ethnicity
    Punjabi

    Quote Originally Posted by prashantvaidwan View Post
    Jio sher jio!
    https://www.quora.com/Is-the-Kamma-c...caste-in-India

  10. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to gudar For This Useful Post:

     laltota (12-26-2019),  tipirneni (12-25-2019)

  11. #6
    Registered Users
    Posts
    3,710
    Location
    Gonur Tepe

    Afghanistan Jammu and Kashmir United States of America Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by tipirneni View Post
    In this thread, we try to gather all the records of movements of Haplogroups local to South Asia.

    The ancient lines of Surya (Solar) and Chandra (lunar) dynasties had new groups of Naga (Serpent) dynasties join later and the Chandra dynasty split into Soma, Yadu, Nanda, Gollas etc... Given high percent of H1 people among Chandra Vamsa/Yadu Vamsa derived castes, the chances of H1 being the original Haplogroup of Chandra vamsa/Yadu vamsa is high. The Naga vamsa might have been a mix of H1 and L1 people. The Surya vamsa is more a mystery since the original Surya vamsa has undergone many transformations due to Buddhism movement/later Hindu revival during late Iron Age and early Medieval era. However the chances of R1a or J2a or even G2 being the main Haplogroup is high. The other Yadu tribes like Nanda vamsa might have been a mix of H1 and F1 people.

    A conservative estimate of the dynasties times time shown in the map below.



    The ancient texts talk about the Chandra dynasties moving further West.

    "Ayu went east became famous Ayavas, his is the Yamuna-Ganga region", while "Amavasu went west, his is Afghanistan, Parshu and West Panjab"



    "In the case of ancient N. India, we do not know anything about the immigration of various tribes and clans, except for a few elusive remarks in the RV (= Rigveda), SB (= Shatapatha Brahmana) or BSS ( = Baudhāyana śrautasūtra). This text retains at 18.44 :397.9 sqq. the most pregnant memory, perhaps, of an immigration of the Indo-Aryans into Northern India and of their split into two groups: pran Ayuh pravavraja. Tasyaite Kuru-Pancalah Kasi-Videha ity. Etad Ayavam pravrajam. Pratyan amavasus. Tasyaite
    Gandharvarayas Parsavo 'ratta ity. Etad Amavasavam. "Ayu went eastwards. His (people) are the Kuru-Pancala and the Kasi Videha. This is the Ayava migration. (His other people) stayed at home in the West. His people are the Gandhari, Parsu and Aratta. This is the Amavasava (group)...the text makes a differentiation between the peoples of the Panjab and the territories West of it on one hand, and the "properly Vedic" tribes of Madhyadesa and the adjacent country East of it."


    In 1989, Witzel commented [Witzel, Michael. 'Tracing the Vedic Dialects'. In Dialectes dans les literatures indo-aryennes; Publications de l'Institute de Civilization Indienne, Serie in-8, Fascicule 55, ed. by C. Caillat, Diffusion de Boccard: Paris (1989)]:
    You seriously cannot be thinking these dates are legit for any family lineage or royal families , most of these are dated to the Eneolithic . They have not even verified the IVC script from the BA how can one make such grand conclusions.

  12. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to pegasus For This Useful Post:

     FrostAssassin0701 (12-25-2019),  laltota (12-26-2019),  MonkeyDLuffy (12-25-2019),  tipirneni (12-25-2019)

  13. #7
    Earlier our kamma bro used to tell DNA with photo, now he can tell just by name of some ancient clan..steady growing...kai yugo ke baad aise chamatkari shaktiya avtarit hoti hai
    Last edited by prashantvaidwan; 12-25-2019 at 04:33 PM.

  14. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to prashantvaidwan For This Useful Post:

     agent_lime (12-25-2019),  laltota (12-26-2019),  MonkeyDLuffy (12-25-2019),  pegasus (12-25-2019),  tipirneni (12-25-2019)

  15. #8
    Registered Users
    Posts
    279
    Sex
    Location
    pakistan
    Ethnicity
    Punjabi

    Mahabharata was written in modern day pakistani punjab and main characters of Pandava and kauravs were people of greater punjab spread all the way to delhi ( later hrayna and himachal were carved out from greater punjab by indian government )

    i am reading a interesting book "Sindhi Roots & Rituals" by a sindhi hindu Dayal Harjani and he has mentioned Pandava and kauravs were jats



    and sindhi samma rajputs were yadavs (not jats) and sammat is common term which include all sindhis of all types



  16. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to gudar For This Useful Post:

     laltota (12-26-2019),  tipirneni (12-25-2019)

  17. #9
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,689
    Sex
    Location
    US
    Ethnicity
    India Andhra Kamma Telugu
    Nationality
    US
    Y-DNA (P)
    HM82 Z5890+CTS8144+
    mtDNA (M)
    U2a1a

    United States of America India
    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    You seriously cannot be thinking these dates are legit for any family lineage or royal families , most of these are dated to the Eneolithic . They have not even verified the IVC script from the BA how can one make such grand conclusions.
    Well people have come up with expansion times for Haplogroup based on network diagrams & it matches the existing literature on the lineage. I agree we haven't deciphered the language and signs of IVC but still this is like a first step towards that.
    Y: H-M69 -> H-M82 -> SK1225 -> H-Z5888 -> H-Z5890 -> H-CTS8144 [CTS8144/PF1741/M5498] -> Z34531 (H1a1a4b3b1a8~)
    found 2875 BCE -> Jiroft/IVC Periphery 11459 Shahr-i-Sokte BA2
    mtDNA:U2a1a

    G25 Ancients Dist 0.79 IND_Roopkund_A 51.05 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 46.64 MAR_Iberomaurusian2.04PAK_Katelai_IA0.19 TKM_Gonur2_BA 0.08

    Lactose Persistence rs3213871 rs4988243 rs4988183 rs3769005 rs2236783
    found -> DA125, Kangju

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to tipirneni For This Useful Post:

     laltota (12-26-2019)

  19. #10
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,689
    Sex
    Location
    US
    Ethnicity
    India Andhra Kamma Telugu
    Nationality
    US
    Y-DNA (P)
    HM82 Z5890+CTS8144+
    mtDNA (M)
    U2a1a

    United States of America India
    https://sites.google.com/site/gandikotakammas/kamma

    Kamma is a mixed community of erstwhile soldiers who ruled the Andhras. There are big sections of Chandra Vanshi & Yadu Vanshi groups in them mixed with Magadh migrations of R2 people and earlier L1 people of Naga/Pallava era. There is also some Surya vanshi maternal lineage due to Ikshvaku clans ruling the Buddhist country of Krishna Valley.

    The strong Chandra Vanshi/Yadu Vanshi names show there is a bigger maternal lineage of these groups among Kammas. Even though working for big name Kshatriyas like Ikshvakus, Chalukyas and Cholas for long time, the main line Kamma dynasties never declared themself Kshatriya, but rather called themselves Varma or Reddi title (to indicate Rashtrakuta). The other closely related groups are Velamas (Split off from Kammas around 1189CE), Reddy (same soldier group working for Rashtrakuta/Chalukya), Pedda Kapu (Magadh migration south during IA), Vokkaliga, Shetty, Mudaliar and Telugu Brahmins (Nayaks like Kammas with some common history during Pallava/Chalukya age).

    Kamma Dynasties :
    (1) Durjaya Vamsam Dynasties:
    Durjaya Dynasty (between 450 AD to 630 AD)
    Velanati Choda Dynasty (from 1100 AD to 1206 AD)
    Kakatiya Dynasty (from 1075 AD to 1323 AD)

    Post Kakatiya invasion

    Musunuri Family ruling Andhra
    Kamma Nayaks working for Vijaya Nagar empire
    Later Nayak kingdoms
    Last edited by tipirneni; 12-25-2019 at 06:09 PM.
    Y: H-M69 -> H-M82 -> SK1225 -> H-Z5888 -> H-Z5890 -> H-CTS8144 [CTS8144/PF1741/M5498] -> Z34531 (H1a1a4b3b1a8~)
    found 2875 BCE -> Jiroft/IVC Periphery 11459 Shahr-i-Sokte BA2
    mtDNA:U2a1a

    G25 Ancients Dist 0.79 IND_Roopkund_A 51.05 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 46.64 MAR_Iberomaurusian2.04PAK_Katelai_IA0.19 TKM_Gonur2_BA 0.08

    Lactose Persistence rs3213871 rs4988243 rs4988183 rs3769005 rs2236783
    found -> DA125, Kangju

Page 1 of 49 12311 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 45
    Last Post: 06-23-2019, 10:11 PM
  2. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-18-2018, 08:10 AM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-24-2018, 06:29 AM
  4. Migrations of K, L and T
    By newtoboard in forum K
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 02-24-2018, 01:46 AM
  5. Migrations bretonnes en Armorique
    By ffoucart in forum French
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 09-17-2017, 01:05 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •