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Thread: M222 (L21>DF13>DF49>DF23>Z2961>M222) downstream SNP tracking

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    M222 (L21>DF13>DF49>DF23>Z2961>M222) downstream SNP tracking

    I see Iain Kennedy has reported that advanced notification of his results has him as M222* with regards to Chromo2 results. This puts him as the second known person with origins in Scotland in this part of M222. He mentions that up to 17% of samples fall into this grouping. Here's the quote form M222 mailing list.

    --------- Forwarded message ----------
    From: Iain Kennedy <ikennedy_msdn2@hotmail.com>
    Date: Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 7:59 AM
    Subject: [R-M222] Chromo2 raw results
    To: "dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com" <dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com>


    I have received advance notification of my raw results and after analysing the file it appears that I am ancestral for all the new SNPs in the Jim Wilson diagram. I have just double checked this directly with Jim to confirm. I have therefore placed myself provisionally right at the top of the diagram alongside Steve Lominac. Apparently 17% of samples so far are in this group but I don't know how many samples that is based on, it seems that the initial batch are back from the lab so it may be more than when the diagram was first released. My paper trail is entirely Scottish and traces back to Fortingall in Perthshire in 1660. No known Irish names are in this group so far. Make of it what you will, and I await more results eagerly. The upload of raw results is still a few days away so its probably best if we leave them to get on with it.

    If and when people do get their results, if they wish to appear in the M222 diagram I am maintaining please can they send me a copy of their raw data file.

    http://www.kennedydna.com/M222.pdf



    Iain
    Here is a PNG version of Iain's M222 tree.


    We also have another DF85+ in the form of 11952 (Barnett)

    -Paul
    (DF41+)

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    Are these new results giving a clearer picture of M222's entry to Ireland and it's spread?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rossa View Post
    Are these new results giving a clearer picture of M222's entry to Ireland and it's spread?
    Until Chromo2 results for M222 start coming in it's kinda hard to tell. Some of early analysis is pointing at Irish M222+ been mostly S661+. Whereas M222* (S661-) appears more scottish. This could point to origin point for M222 in Northern Britain (circa 2,000 years ago).

    Once the results come in along with the "Big Y" results it's going to get interesting.

    -Paul
    (DF41+)

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    Another DF85+ result, MacAdam (88644)

    -Paul
    (DF41+)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dubhthach View Post
    Until Chromo2 results for M222 start coming in it's kinda hard to tell. Some of early analysis is pointing at Irish M222+ been mostly S661+. Whereas M222* (S661-) appears more scottish. This could point to origin point for M222 in Northern Britain (circa 2,000 years ago).

    Once the results come in along with the "Big Y" results it's going to get interesting.

    -Paul
    (DF41+)
    The Gallagher, Doherty & O'Donnell cluster is interesting. What about Cain/O'Kane and McLaughlin cluster (maybe early days to call a few a cluster) that seems more distant? I wonder if it will give a more complicated picture of the UiNiall surnames.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rossa View Post
    The Gallagher, Doherty & O'Donnell cluster is interesting. What about Cain/O'Kane and McLaughlin cluster (maybe early days to call a few a cluster) that seems more distant? I wonder if it will give a more complicated picture of the UiNiall surnames.
    At a casual glance you could be looking at the spilt between the Cinéal Chonaill (DF85?) and the Cinéal nEoghain (S588). These two "kindreds" made up the "Northern Uí Néill". Both share a common ancestry in the form of S660. What's going to be interesting is who comes out as S660+, DF85-, S588-. Or S661+, S660-

    -Paul
    (DF41+)

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    One the M222 yahoo list we have the first confirmed S588*, this is a SNP parallel to DF85 both been subclades of S660.

    McBride (235771) -- he has already tested DF85- with FTDNA which confirms ScotlandsDNA/Irelands/DNA propose clade structure under M222.

    -Paul
    (DF41+)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dubhthach View Post
    One the M222 yahoo list we have the first confirmed S588*, this is a SNP parallel to DF85 both been subclades of S660.

    McBride (235771) -- he has already tested DF85- with FTDNA which confirms ScotlandsDNA/Irelands/DNA propose clade structure under M222.

    -Paul
    (DF41+)
    Paul D,

    I'm trying to get the M222 guys to post their Chromo 2 results in a Folder under Files on the L21 yahoo group. We need to start getting these saved all in one place before we get behind and lose track of them.

    Dr. Wilson is supposed to send me a list of all their SNPs downstream of L21, the tree as he can tell it and then I'll be able to merge it in with Y DNA SNP report screen data and we'll get a consolidated view of the SNPs, rather than all manual note taking.

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    New DF85+ in Ireland project:
    N115028 -- Coleman

    Two additional DF85-, we move DF85- into their own group within the project so as to seperate them out form the large M222 (DF85 untested) group.

    271782 -- Thomason -- DF85-
    N114844 -- Moran -- DF85-

    Iain Kennedy posted the following updated trees:

    http://www.kennedydna.com/M222.pdf

    http://www.kennedydna.com/S474.jpg



    S476 appears to be a SNP between DF49 and DF23. All DF23+ are S476+, however they must have found some DF49+,S476- men in ScotlandsDNA/IrelandsDNA testing.

    The other key finding is a new SNP under M222. This is shaping up to be the "DF13 of M222". This SNP is S7073, according to Iain there is one confirmed M222+, S7073-, the testee is anonymous and of Scottish origin. Again it's pointing towards the North of Britain as source location for M222.


    List

    I have several updates to the M222 tree this evening. Jim Wilson has provided a list of SNPs which he considers phylogenetically equivalent to M222 and are (mostly) on the Chromo2 chip. As the list is now too long to force into a personal name in my tree I have also posted the raw tree diagram he sent me which primarily shows the top level above and below, so it is not a replacement for the whole earlier diagram.

    There are three features in his new diagram:
    1. What appears to be a new hg between S474/DF49 and S193/DF23 called S476 which is not on the ISOGG tree.
    2. The new list of M222 equivalents
    3. A new SNP below M222 called S7073.

    I have moved everything at the root of M222 below S7073 but having not seen Steve Lominac's raw file yet I can't confirm that he is positive for it. I am as is Rob McBride too of course.

    The other change to the diagram, which Rob McBride spotted and neither Jim nor I did is that he is positive for F3952, one of the SNPs we got off Geno 2.0 which previously only a Mitchell was positive for. I have double checked with Jim and he reviewed the raw genotype and agrees with this placement. My checking procedures have been amended accordingly and I have added Mitchell to the diagram too.

    Upper tree update:

    http://www.kennedydna.com/S474.jpg

    Main tree from M222:

    http://www.kennedydna.com/M222.pdf

    Iain
    ---------- Forwarded message ----------
    From: Iain Kennedy <ikennedy_msdn2@hotmail.com>
    Date: Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 7:08 PM
    Subject: Re: [R-M222] Revised M222 tree
    To: "dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com" <dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com>


    Yes there was a note of an unnamed Scot who is S7073- but it wasn't clear if he is the sole person in this group, my guess is that he is for the time being.

    Iain





    > Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 19:04:22 +0000
    > From: pduffy81@gmail.com
    > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com
    > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Revised M222 tree
    >
    > I'm assuming some M222+/S7073- have been found in Chromo2.0 results to
    > result in new phylogeny. Otherwise they would have had it equivalent to
    > M222.
    >
    > The new SNP between DF23 and DF49 will be useful for those DF49+ who have
    > tested DF23-, that's for sure!
    >
    > -Paul
    > (DF41+)
    >
    -Paul
    (DF41+)

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    I have Chromo2 and an upgrade to 111 markers pending on my own line, but I've just got back 37-marker results for my maternal uncle, who is also confirmed M222 via 23andMe, and not quite sure what to make of them. He has DYS390=24 and DYS391=10, almost everything else follows the M222 modal. Surname is Lee. While I'm trying to be proactive with my own line, I think I might just wait a while on his line and see what other options present themselves. It's both frustrating and exciting to be part of M222 at the moment.

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