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Thread: J1b J-Y6305

  1. #1
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    110
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    Azerbaijan, Baku
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    Black Sheep Turkoman
    Nationality
    Azerbaijani
    Y-DNA (P)
    J1 P58>ZS1706>ZS7071
    mtDNA (M)
    J
    Y-DNA (M)
    O-M175 O2A1

    Great Seljuk Empire Azerbaijan Yerevan Khanate Iran Safavid Empire Mongolia

    Exclamation J1b J-Y6305

    Got new results for one Turkish whose ancestors were Azerbaijani turks from Sarijali tribe Karabakh. He has ordered Y-12 and suprisingly has only 12 matches. FTDNA was not able to predict haplogroup though most probably it is J1>Y6305 TMRCA 14900 same subclade with satsurblian caweman. He can`t afford BIG Y for now, so gonna order it once budget allows.

    Here are his markers (FTDNA order )

    IN74670
    12 23 14 10 10-19 11 16 12 13 11 30
    Azerbaijani Turkic Project
    Hidden Content

    Turkmenistan DNA Project
    Hidden Content

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  3. #2
    Registered Users
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    1,183
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Albanian
    Y-DNA (P)
    J-BY32817
    mtDNA (M)
    T1a1l
    Y-DNA (M)
    E-CTS1273*

    Albania Kosovo
    On Yfull there is a J-Y6305>Y19093>ZS50 sample from Erzurum, Turkey. Maybe this guy is also ZS50?
    Ydna: J1>P58>YSC234>ZS241>BY32817 (Y179831)

    Maternal Ydna: E-V13>CTS1273*

    Mtdna: T1a1l

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  5. #3
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    J1 PF7263

    He is probably ZS5061 (Z2223>ZS50>ZS5061)

    On YHRD there is identical haplotype on 10 markers:

    393-390-19-391-385ab-439-389I-392-389II-458-437-448-H4-456-438-635

    12-23-14-10-10/19-12-13-11-30-12.2-14-19-12-15--10-21

    It's from paper from Serin et al 2011, but, unfortunately there is no haplotypes in work. You must go on YHRD and search if you want to check.

    http://www.cmj.hr/2011/52/6/22180269.htm

    Cukurova sample have combination of values characteristic for ZS5061 line: DYs385a-10; DYS458-12.2; DYS448-19, so I think that this is enough for it's determination as ZS5061. Because of that, even without some important markers as DYS458 and DYs448, I believe that man from Azerbaijan belong to this line.

    This line is also present in Serbian nation (2 Serbs from Bosnia) and Albanian nation (Albanian from Montenegro), Bosniaks from Sandžak and some scientific papers from East Croatia and Hungary. Also in Spain (Cantabria) and China (Gansu province)

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  7. #4
    Registered Users
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    E-CTS1273*

    Albania Kosovo
    Quote Originally Posted by levantino II View Post
    He is probably ZS5061 (Z2223>ZS50>ZS5061)

    On YHRD there is identical haplotype on 10 markers:

    393-390-19-391-385ab-439-389I-392-389II-458-437-448-H4-456-438-635

    12-23-14-10-10/19-12-13-11-30-12.2-14-19-12-15--10-21

    It's from paper from Serin et al 2011, but, unfortunately there is no haplotypes in work. You must go on YHRD and search if you want to check.

    http://www.cmj.hr/2011/52/6/22180269.htm

    Cukurova sample have combination of values characteristic for ZS5061 line: DYs385a-10; DYS458-12.2; DYS448-19, so I think that this is enough for it's determination as ZS5061. Because of that, even without some important markers as DYS458 and DYs448, I believe that man from Azerbaijan belong to this line.

    This line is also present in Serbian nation (2 Serbs from Bosnia) and Albanian nation (Albanian from Montenegro), Bosniaks from Sandžak and some scientific papers from East Croatia and Hungary. Also in Spain (Cantabria) and China (Gansu province)
    There is also an Egyptian and Irishman on FTDNA who are ZS5061+. There are 3 Albanians from Montenegro that I am aware of who are Y19093+, as well as 1 from Kosovo. I find the Y19093+ Bosniaks from Sandzak interesting because of the fact that they have oral tradition claiming origin from the Albanian Hoti tribe. This tradition may very well be true since there are already 3 Albanians from Montenegro who come from tribes neighbouring the Hoti. This haplotype was also found in 1 Montenegrin from a study.

    The spread of this haplotype is very interesting, it spans all the way from the British Isles and into China. Given the fact that the Silk Road ran through the Gansu province, I'd say the sample from China is of western origin, possibly from a Western Asian or even European merchant/traveller. Also, 5% of the Gansu population is Hui, a group who seem to descend partly from groups who arrived via the Silk Road.
    Last edited by Kelmendasi; 12-29-2019 at 08:31 PM.
    Ydna: J1>P58>YSC234>ZS241>BY32817 (Y179831)

    Maternal Ydna: E-V13>CTS1273*

    Mtdna: T1a1l

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  9. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    There is also an Egyptian and Irishman on FTDNA who are ZS5061+. There are 3 Albanians from Montenegro that I am aware of who are Y19093+, as well as 1 from Kosovo. I find the Y19093+ Bosniaks from Sandzak interesting because of the fact that they have oral tradition claiming origin from the Albanian Hoti tribe. This tradition may very well be true since there are already 3 Albanians from Montenegro who come from tribes neighbouring the Hoti. This haplotype was also found in 1 Montenegrin from a study.
    If we talk about Mirabal et al:" Human Y-chromosome short tandem repeats: A tale of acculturation and migrations as mechanisms for the diffusion of agriculture in Balkan peninsula" we have three samples

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...002/ajpa.21235

    393-390-19-391-385ab-439-389I-392-389II-458-437-448-H4-456-438-635

    1) 12-23-14-10-10/19-12-14-11-32-12.2-14-19-11-15-10-21 sample 228
    2) 13-23-14-10-10/20-12-14-11-31-12.2-14-19-12-15-9-21 sample 230X2

    If we compare this haplotypes with haplotypes from FTDNA Ostojić and Lekocaj, we have next situation:

    12 23 14 10 10-19 11 16 12 14 11 30 12 9-9 11 10 27 14 19 28 16-16-16-16 10 11 20-22 15 14 16 17 37-37 12 10 Ostojić (Serb from Bosnia and Herzegovina)

    13 23 14 10 10-20 11 16 12 14 11 31 12 8-9 11 10 27 14 19 28 13-16-16-16 10 11 19-22 15 14 17 17 32-38 12 9 Leckocaj (Albanian from Montenegro)

    Ostojić sample is very close to first one, with only difference on DYS389II- 30 instead 32, while second (and third) are identical with Lekocaj sample, with very caracteristic mutations on DYS438 (nine instead of ten). For that reason I mostly talk about "Serbian" and "Albanian" branch of ZS5061. (About Albanians, I know only about Lekocaj and Gashi, they are already on the Albanian project. If you think about Krnić and Becaj they are tested on 23&me just as J1 and there is no confirmation about there J1 line)


    The spread of this haplotype is very interesting, it spans all the way from the British Isles and into China. Given the fact that the Silk Road ran through the Gansu province, I'd say the sample from China is of western origin, possibly from a Western Asian or even European merchant/traveller. Also, 5% of the Gansu population is Hui, a group who seem to descend partly from groups who arrived via the Silk Road.
    I also believed that, but this guys were Tibetans. But yes, they probably were assimilate foreigners from the west

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  11. #6
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    Albania Kosovo
    Quote Originally Posted by levantino II View Post
    Ostojić sample is very close to first one, with only difference on DYS389II- 30 instead 32, while second (and third) are identical with Lekocaj sample, with very caracteristic mutations on DYS438 (nine instead of ten). For that reason I mostly talk about "Serbian" and "Albanian" branch of ZS5061. (About Albanians, I know only about Lekocaj and Gashi, they are already on the Albanian project. If you think about Krnić and Becaj they are tested on 23&me just as J1 and there is no confirmation about there J1 line)
    Yeah, the Albanian Y19093 does indeed seem to be ZS5061+. Do you know anything about Ostojics' further origin?

    I wonder how and when this haplotype arrived in the Balkans/Europe? I'd guess sometime before the Bronze Age, maybe during the Neolithic. Actually Beqaj did test with Y37, he just never joined the project. I was in contact with him for quite some time. He is very close to Lekocaj and clusters with him, so he is ZS5061+. As for Kernaj/Krnic, considering that oral tradition states that they are related to the Beqaj and turned out to be J1 on 23andme, I'd say it's very likely that they also are ZS5061+.
    Last edited by Kelmendasi; 12-30-2019 at 01:28 PM.
    Ydna: J1>P58>YSC234>ZS241>BY32817 (Y179831)

    Maternal Ydna: E-V13>CTS1273*

    Mtdna: T1a1l

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  13. #7
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    J1 PF7263

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    Yeah, the Albanian Y19093 does indeed seem to be ZS5061+. Do you know anything about Ostojics' further origin?
    To be honest, I don't. It was some talk about his origin, but it was just oral tradition about origin from Montenegro without some specific area. I believed he come from Western Montenegro (Drobnjak tribe area) because this place of origin was in oral tradition of most families and brotherhoods from Romanija area. Now it look like thay come from Southeastern corner of Montenegro, around Podgorica and Skadarsko polje (Scadar plain). Maybe Drobnjak was some phase of migration, but it looks like they weren't native in that area

    I wonder how and when this haplotype arrived in the Balkans/Europe? I'd guess sometime before the Bronze Age, maybe during the Neolithic. Actually Beqaj did test with Y37, he just never joined the project. I was in contact with him for quite some time. He is very close to Lekocaj and clusters with him, so he is ZS5061+. As for Kernaj/Krnic, considering that oral tradition states that they are related to the Beqaj and turned out to be J1 on 23andme, I'd say it's very likely that they also are ZS5061+.
    This is very interesting information. We were talk about Mataguži, results from 23&me and Lekocaj but we didn't have second confirmation about families from that area. This will be very important information for people interested in Montenegro Y-DNA lines

    About further origin, I don't know. They don't show clear pattern. They have few Arabs, but line don't look Arabian. They have few Turks, but it don't look Anatolian also. They don't have much Slavs, so it don't look Slavic. Same is with Europeans, few Mediterraneans, but also people from Central Europe. So I really don't know. About time of origin, I would like to see more J1 people on YFull. After Viktar stopped to update his tree, we are very much stacked. For now, it looks like Z2223 could be 5000 years old, and how old could be ZS5061 I don't have any idea

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  15. #8
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    istanbul
    Nationality
    Turkish
    Y-DNA (P)
    J1B-Z2223 (ZS50)
    mtDNA (M)
    U2D
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1B-PF7580

    Turkey Iran Safavid Empire Iran Sassanid Empire AchaemenidEmpire1 AchaemenidEmpire2
    Finally we have more members
    Does someone have this new guys contact?
    My paternal relatives think that they have turcoman(Türkmen) heritage, but I have doubts about it, because our paternal-line J1b seems to be native to the Eastern Anatolia region very deeply. The history of my paternal line shows also the same.(At least 500 years in the region) My autosomal results show that I'm up to %95 percent Kurdish. I'm well aware that autosamal DNA has nothing to do with Y-Dna, but I'm also from an ethnoreligous minority group called Alevi, where you can't get married with someone outside the group. At least till 20th century. Both my paternal and maternal lineages are all from Alevi families.
    So what I want to say, my family probably doesn't want to be double minority in Turkey. But of course they could be right about the Turcoman heritage, and I could be wrong. We'll see
    Have a nice week...

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  17. #9
    Registered Users
    Posts
    110
    Sex
    Location
    Azerbaijan, Baku
    Ethnicity
    Black Sheep Turkoman
    Nationality
    Azerbaijani
    Y-DNA (P)
    J1 P58>ZS1706>ZS7071
    mtDNA (M)
    J
    Y-DNA (M)
    O-M175 O2A1

    Great Seljuk Empire Azerbaijan Yerevan Khanate Iran Safavid Empire Mongolia
    Qardaş salam. Email/facebook yazarsan bir zəhmət.
    Azerbaijani Turkic Project
    Hidden Content

    Turkmenistan DNA Project
    Hidden Content

  18. #10
    Registered Users
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    J1 PF7263

    Quote Originally Posted by quxuq View Post
    Finally we have more members
    Does someone have this new guys contact?
    My paternal relatives think that they have turcoman(Türkmen) heritage, but I have doubts about it, because our paternal-line J1b seems to be native to the Eastern Anatolia region very deeply. The history of my paternal line shows also the same.(At least 500 years in the region) My autosomal results show that I'm up to %95 percent Kurdish. I'm well aware that autosamal DNA has nothing to do with Y-Dna, but I'm also from an ethnoreligous minority group called Alevi, where you can't get married with someone outside the group. At least till 20th century. Both my paternal and maternal lineages are all from Alevi families.
    So what I want to say, my family probably doesn't want to be double minority in Turkey. But of course they could be right about the Turcoman heritage, and I could be wrong. We'll see
    Have a nice week...
    About Serbian guys we don't have connection with them. Ostojić send his result to the administration of Poreklo project 2014 year and Herzegovinian sample was picked in collective testing so there is not interested individual. Sorry

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