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Thread: Is there really Basal Eurasian and or Iranian/Caucasus related ancestry in Anatolia?

  1. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Rohlfsen View Post
    That doesn't mean basal Eurasian and ANA are separate things.
    I think you are the only one who is proponent that Basal Eurasian and ANA are practically the same. Maybe you are right, maybe not. My knowledge is limited on this issue.

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    Are we even sure that ANA is not just a blend of SSA and some very early eurasian?

    I can model the Iberomaurusians pretty well in qpadm as a blend of Shum Laka, Anatolia_HG and UstIshim. Although Dinka is preferred to Shum Laka when I include moderns.

    If ANA can be seen as a sister branch to Mota which also seems to have some UstIshim admixture the most likely explanation to me is that there was admixture back into North/East Africa from a very early OOA or maybe even a pre-OOA population, potentially even spreading Haplogroup E.

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  4. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mnemonics View Post
    Are we even sure that ANA is not just a blend of SSA and some very early eurasian?

    I can model the Iberomaurusians pretty well in qpadm as a blend of Shum Laka, Anatolia_HG and UstIshim. Although Dinka is preferred to Shum Laka when I include moderns.

    If ANA can be seen as a sister branch to Mota which also seems to have some UstIshim admixture the most likely explanation to me is that there was admixture back into North/East Africa from a very early OOA or maybe even a pre-OOA population, potentially even spreading Haplogroup E.
    We’ll simply have to wait and see, and hopefully we’ll get more aDNA from that part of the world... e.g. Central Sahara, Nile Valley, and Arabia.

    At this point, various models are possible but I am leaning towards ancient substructure in Africa, Neo African vs. Basal African; it seems to be the most parsimonious model. This model not only explains the origins of the Iberomaurusians, but also the complex genetic affinities (in relation to OOA) of Mota, West Africans, and probably Nilotic-related groups... not to mention the Natufians. I remember when the Natufian genomes were first published back in 2015, several reputable members of this forum found that the Natufians appeared to have some African affinities, using Treemix and other tools. The only issue at the time was that the Natufians couldn’t be modeled as being admixed with any modern SSAs (even Mota); the existence of ANA and the presence of Basal African ancestry in most if not all SSAs resolves this initial issue.

    I personally think it’s unlikely that an early Eurasian population (e.g. UstIshim) ~40,000 years ago would’ve encountered a genetic landscape that is similar to what we see today (e.g. Dinka) in NE Africa. Without more aDNA, we have no reason to believe that yDNA E or MtDNA L3 was spread by a population related to UstIshim. But I might be wrong, only time will tell.

    Lazaridis, Lipson, and the Reich Lab are far from the first geneticist to advocate for deep substructure and even multiregionalism in Africa, but they were the first to support aDNA in support of this model. Wouldn’t ANA or AEA be considered “pre-OOA population[s]”?
    Last edited by gihanga.rwanda; 10-21-2020 at 01:13 PM.

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  6. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bbgum View Post
    Do you know how much basal eurasian is in south asia? It seems they only focus on europe and east asia. I found one source that compared alleles of south indians, it would seem they have much less to none. (The Z score is green in C)

     


    Ust Ishim isn't Basal Eurasian....I think quantifying BE-ness in South Asians would require the Mesolithic 'Iranian' ancestors who seem to have resembled Hotu far more than Ganj Dareh to be discovered and sequenced. South Asian peripheral peoples like Balochis most likely have greater BE affinities than Gujuratis etc, not sure about other NW-S.Asian folks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThaYamamoto View Post
    Ust Ishim isn't Basal Eurasian....I think quantifying BE-ness in South Asians would require the Mesolithic 'Iranian' ancestors who seem to have resembled Hotu far more than Ganj Dareh to be discovered and sequenced. South Asian peripheral peoples like Balochis most likely have greater BE affinities than Gujuratis etc, not sure about other NW-S.Asian folks.
    Yes that was my point. South indians have nearly equal affinity to ust ishim as east asians and andeans, so they cannot have much if any basal eurasian.

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  9. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bbgum View Post
    Yes that was my point. South indians have nearly equal affinity to ust ishim as east asians and andeans, so they cannot have much if any basal eurasian.
    Surely they would harbor some from their Mesolithic Iranian ancestry [50+%] ?

  10. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThaYamamoto View Post
    Surely they would harbor some from their Mesolithic Iranian ancestry [50+%] ?
    Well the theory is that modern europeans share less alleles with him than east asians do (and ancient hunter gatherers). But if south asians are similarly related to him as east asians are, then they canít have as much BE. Thats my trail of thought anyway... i guess no one is able to estimate it yet. Sorry if that sounded confusing

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  12. #138
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    @Kototyr - Could you get a decent fit if you modeled Dinka or Sudanese as a combination of ANA-stimulated and Yoruba, and perhaps Mbuti or other another hunter-gatherer reference population? Could you do the same for Mota but with ANA-stimulated and ZAF_2000?

  13. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by gihanga.rwanda View Post
    @Kototyr - Could you get a decent fit if you modeled Dinka or Sudanese as a combination of ANA-stimulated and Yoruba, and perhaps Mbuti or other another hunter-gatherer reference population? Could you do the same for Mota but with ANA-stimulated and ZAF_2000?
    Can't really get a decent fit with suggested sources.
    Models.png

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