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Thread: Substructured population growth in the Ashkenazi Jews (Hammer et al. 2018)

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    Substructured population growth in the Ashkenazi Jews (Hammer et al. 2018)

    I don't know how we missed that, but there was a recent publication of a study last year which deals with something many of us have been discussing here, especially in the Western Jews mega-thread.

    Substructured population growth in the Ashkenazi Jews inferred with Approximate Bayesian Computation

    Abstract

    "The Ashkenazi Jews (AJ) are a population isolate that have resided in Central Europe since at least the 10th century and share ancestry with both European and Middle Eastern populations. Between the 11th and 16th centuries, AJ expanded eastward leading to two culturally distinct communities, one in central Europe and one in eastern Europe. Our aim was to determine if there are genetically distinct AJ subpopulations that reflect the cultural groups, and if so, what demographic events contributed to the population differentiation. We used Approximate Bayesian Computation (ABC) to choose among models of AJ history and infer demographic parameter values, including divergence times, effective population size, and gene flow. For the ABC analysis we used allele frequency spectrum and identical by descent based statistics to capture information on a wide timescale. We also mitigated the effects of ascertainment bias when performing ABC on SNP array data by jointly modeling and inferring the SNP discovery. We found that the most likely model was population differentiation between the Eastern and Western AJ ~400 years ago. The differentiation between the Eastern and Western AJ could be attributed to more extreme population growth in the Eastern AJ (0.25 per generation) than the Western AJ (0.069 per generation)."

    Basically, they've found that the reasons for the substructure between Western and Eastern Ashkenazim is the result of the fast population growth among Eastern Ashkenazim, rather than some non-Ashkenazi or European population influx.

    They've also found another quite amazing thing - that the North European admixture event among Western and Eastern Ashkenazi is the same, ie that Eastern Ashkenazi Jews do not have extra Eastern European admixture compare to Western Ashkenazi Jews. They explain this could either be the result of extensive geneflow between Eastern and Western Ashkenazim, or that indeed there was only one source for that North European admixture. Quite groundbreaking.

    Here are the three proposed models they've tested for the different split and European admixtures among Western and Eastern AJ, and from all these three found that Model 2 is the most accurate one:



    They've also again found no trace of Khazar admixture in Eastern Ashkenazim (they mention Elhaik's study).

    The PCA they publish is also quite interesting, as it shows that Eastern Ashkenazim are actually closer to other non-Ashkenazi Western Jews, and Western Ashkenazim are more genetically isolated:

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    I'm looking at this PCA from the study above and if Eastern Ashkenazi are the more bottlenecked ones, why do Western Ashkenazi Jews occupy one end of the PCA's spectrum?

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    I've put these samples into the Global25.

    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_1
    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_2
    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_3
    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_4
    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_5
    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_6
    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_7
    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_8
    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_9
    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_10
    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_11
    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_12
    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_13
    Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_1
    Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_2
    Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_3
    Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_4
    Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_5
    Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_6
    Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_8
    Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_9
    Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_10
    Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_11
    Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_1
    Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_2
    Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_3
    Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_4
    Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_5
    Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_6
    Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_7
    Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_8
    Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_9
    Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_10
    Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_11
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_1
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_2
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_4
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_5
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_6
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_8
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_9
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_10
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_11
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_12
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_13
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_14
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_15
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_16
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_17
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_18
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_19
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_21
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_22
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_23
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_24
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_25
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_26
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_27
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_28
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_29
    Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_1
    Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_2
    Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_3
    Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_4
    Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_5
    Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_6
    Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_8
    Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_9
    Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_10
    Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_11
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_1
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_2
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_3
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_4
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_5
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_7
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_8
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_9
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_10
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_11
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_12
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_13
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_14
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_15
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_16
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_17
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_18
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_19
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_20
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_21

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    Ashkenazi_Russia are clearly those who dont know where their ancestors are from within the Russian Empire( Jews weren't allowed to live in almost all of modern Russia, but in territories previously in Belarus and Ukraine- i.e Velizh and Lubavichi) However, this normally implies they're not galitzianers.
    הִנְנִי֩ מֵבִ֨יא אוֹתָ֜ם מֵאֶ֣רֶץ צָפ֗וֹן

    Jeremiah 31

    Other potential and/or likely recent lineages: J-L816, J-PF5456, E-FGC56023

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    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    I've put these samples into the Global25.
     

    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_1
    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_2
    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_3
    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_4
    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_5
    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_6
    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_7
    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_8
    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_9
    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_10
    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_11
    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_12
    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_13
    Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_1
    Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_2
    Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_3
    Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_4
    Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_5
    Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_6
    Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_8
    Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_9
    Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_10
    Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_11
    Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_1
    Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_2
    Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_3
    Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_4
    Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_5
    Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_6
    Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_7
    Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_8
    Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_9
    Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_10
    Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_11
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_1
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_2
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_4
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_5
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_6
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_8
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_9
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_10
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_11
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_12
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_13
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_14
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_15
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_16
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_17
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_18
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_19
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_21
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_22
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_23
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_24
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_25
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_26
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_27
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_28
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_29
    Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_1
    Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_2
    Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_3
    Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_4
    Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_5
    Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_6
    Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_8
    Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_9
    Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_10
    Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_11
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_1
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_2
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_3
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_4
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_5
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_7
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_8
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_9
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_10
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_11
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_12
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_13
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_14
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_15
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_16
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_17
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_18
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_19
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_20
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_21
    Well, now I don't look most like a Southern Italian, anymore

    Distance to: Dewsloth_scaled
    0.02349802 Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_4
    0.02412088 Italian_Abruzzo:Alp162
    0.02429335 Italian_Abruzzo:ItalyAbruzzo19
    0.02489065 Italian_Abruzzo:Alp140
    0.02497281 Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_15
    0.02499288 Italian_Marche:MarACY030D
    0.02523665 Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_10
    0.02558855 Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_5
    0.02696945 Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_10
    0.02731019 Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_3
    0.02737957 Italian_Campania:NaN119AMR
    0.02747510 Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_11
    0.02753564 Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_20
    0.02756140 Italian_BasilicataG17
    0.02762565 Italian_Campania:CMP_b009_2
    0.02812097 Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_12
    0.02829251 Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_3
    0.02832544 Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_2
    0.02870291 Italian_MoliseG27
    0.02893491 Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_10
    0.02916224 Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_12
    R1b>M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833 >S4281>S4268>Z17112>BY44243

    Ancestors: Francis Cooke (M223/I2a2a) b1583; Hester Mahieu (Cooke) (J1c2 mtDNA) b.1584; Richard Warren (E-M35) b1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b1583;
    John Mead (I2a1/P37.2) b1634; Rev. Joseph Hull (I1, L1301+ L1302-) b1595; Benjamin Harrington (M223/I2a2a-Y5729) b1618; Joshua Griffith (L21>DF13) b1593;
    John Wing (U106) b1584; Thomas Gunn (DF19) b1605; Hermann Wilhelm (DF19) b1635

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erikl86 View Post
    I don't know how we missed that, but there was a recent publication of a study last year which deals with something many of us have been discussing here, especially in the Western Jews mega-thread.

    Substructured population growth in the Ashkenazi Jews inferred with Approximate Bayesian Computation

    Abstract

    "The Ashkenazi Jews (AJ) are a population isolate that have resided in Central Europe since at least the 10th century and share ancestry with both European and Middle Eastern populations. Between the 11th and 16th centuries, AJ expanded eastward leading to two culturally distinct communities, one in central Europe and one in eastern Europe. Our aim was to determine if there are genetically distinct AJ subpopulations that reflect the cultural groups, and if so, what demographic events contributed to the population differentiation. We used Approximate Bayesian Computation (ABC) to choose among models of AJ history and infer demographic parameter values, including divergence times, effective population size, and gene flow. For the ABC analysis we used allele frequency spectrum and identical by descent based statistics to capture information on a wide timescale. We also mitigated the effects of ascertainment bias when performing ABC on SNP array data by jointly modeling and inferring the SNP discovery. We found that the most likely model was population differentiation between the Eastern and Western AJ ~400 years ago. The differentiation between the Eastern and Western AJ could be attributed to more extreme population growth in the Eastern AJ (0.25 per generation) than the Western AJ (0.069 per generation)."

    Basically, they've found that the reasons for the substructure between Western and Eastern Ashkenazim is the result of the fast population growth among Eastern Ashkenazim, rather than some non-Ashkenazi or European population influx.

    They've also found another quite amazing thing - that the North European admixture event among Western and Eastern Ashkenazi is the same, ie that Eastern Ashkenazi Jews do not have extra Eastern European admixture compare to Western Ashkenazi Jews. They explain this could either be the result of extensive geneflow between Eastern and Western Ashkenazim, or that indeed there was only one source for that North European admixture. Quite groundbreaking.

    Here are the three proposed models they've tested for the different split and European admixtures among Western and Eastern AJ, and from all these three found that Model 2 is the most accurate one:



    They've also again found no trace of Khazar admixture in Eastern Ashkenazim (they mention Elhaik's study).

    The PCA they publish is also quite interesting, as it shows that Eastern Ashkenazim are actually closer to other non-Ashkenazi Western Jews, and Western Ashkenazim are more genetically isolated:

    I mentioned recently on other thread, I’ve been gradually ploughing through Paul Johnson’s History of the Jews,but I’ve also always been keeping an eye on anything I come across which might be applicable to historical admixture or any differentiating history of Western vs Eastern Ashkenazim etc etc..
    A while ago we discussed that on average there is no real genetic difference between Western and Eastern Ashkenazim and that any East Euro admixture is just as prevalent in Western as Eastern Ashkenazim etc etc..
    Reading the article of the study above that you shared combined with what I’ve been reading of late is this:
    We Know French Jewish communities came to England in 1066 with William the Conqueror,and that in 1290 king Edward the 1st expulsed all the Jews of England,more expulsions in France,then the various Crusades and massacre’s pushing remaining population East no longer living in France or Germany.
    As far as I can see Ashkenazim only started to come back to Western Europe in the 1500’s as we know Ashkenazim had there own large community in Venice already in 1516 and although the Khmelnytsky uprising of 1648 was the real catalyst for Ashkenazim to come back to France & Germany there must of been earlier migrations in 1500’s.
    Anyway from what I have read it seems this wave of opportunistic Ashkenazim of 1500’s to 1700’s seem to be the base of Western Ashkenazim where as Eastern Ashkenazim stayed in the East eventually getting a raw deal when Russia annexed big chunk of Poland with Tsarist’s more or less bringing back the Medieval Jewish ghetto of Western Europe in regard to wealth rights and persecution etc etc..
    Which essentially leaves both Western and Eastern Ashkenazim culturally different (emancipation in West) but essentially genetically the same.
    This also explains why Eastern euro admixture is equally distributed amongst Western & Eastern Ashkenazim.
    Going forward what would really help to establish this chain of events is if we had access to the DNA results of those 12th/13th century Jewish bodies found at bottom of Well in Norwich England as there lack of East euro admixture would both confirm Rhineland theory and place another nail in Elhaiks Coffin
    Last edited by Claudio; 01-03-2020 at 05:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    I've put these samples into the Global25.

    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_1
    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_2
    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_3
    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_4
    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_5
    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_6
    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_7
    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_8
    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_9
    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_10
    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_11
    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_12
    Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_13
    Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_1
    Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_2
    Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_3
    Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_4
    Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_5
    Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_6
    Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_8
    Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_9
    Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_10
    Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_11
    Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_1
    Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_2
    Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_3
    Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_4
    Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_5
    Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_6
    Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_7
    Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_8
    Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_9
    Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_10
    Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_11
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_1
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_2
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_4
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_5
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_6
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_8
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_9
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_10
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_11
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_12
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_13
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_14
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_15
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_16
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_17
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_18
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_19
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_21
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_22
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_23
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_24
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_25
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_26
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_27
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_28
    Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_29
    Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_1
    Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_2
    Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_3
    Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_4
    Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_5
    Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_6
    Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_8
    Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_9
    Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_10
    Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_11
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_1
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_2
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_3
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_4
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_5
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_7
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_8
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_9
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_10
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_11
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_12
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_13
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_14
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_15
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_16
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_17
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_18
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_19
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_20
    Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_21
    I wonder how they labeled them. If they're American Jews, I can imagine it went like this: "Oh, one of my grandparents was born near Minsk" => Ashkenazi_Belarussia. If not and they are entirely from these countries, then we finally have more narrow categories.
    הִנְנִי֩ מֵבִ֨יא אוֹתָ֜ם מֵאֶ֣רֶץ צָפ֗וֹן

    Jeremiah 31

    Other potential and/or likely recent lineages: J-L816, J-PF5456, E-FGC56023

  14. #8
    Registered Users
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    Y-DNA (P)
    J-L210
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    mtDNA (P)
    HV1b2

    Israel Jerusalem
    Distance to: Me_scaled
    0.01781126 Ashkenazi_Germany
    0.02074648 Ashkenazi_Lithuania
    0.02172150 Ashkenazi_Belarussia
    0.02237487 Ashkenazi_Poland
    0.02387173 Ashkenazi_Russia
    0.02411435 Ashkenazi_Ukraine
    I quit.
    הִנְנִי֩ מֵבִ֨יא אוֹתָ֜ם מֵאֶ֣רֶץ צָפ֗וֹן

    Jeremiah 31

    Other potential and/or likely recent lineages: J-L816, J-PF5456, E-FGC56023

  15. #9
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    סוף מערב
    Ethnicity
    Western Jewish
    Nationality
    USA
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-Z36123*
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c7a
    Y-DNA (M)
    R-Y2619
    mtDNA (P)
    H7

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabass View Post
    I'm looking at this PCA from the study above and if Eastern Ashkenazi are the more bottlenecked ones, why do Western Ashkenazi Jews occupy one end of the PCA's spectrum?
    Naively: maybe it’s that Eastern Ashkenazim have extra minor Middle Eastern (Mizrahi, Romaniote) and European (Slavic) ancestry, on top of a Rhineland Ashkenazi base?
    The clock indicates the moment—but what does eternity indicate?

  16. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to hartaisarlag For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (01-04-2020),  Claudio (01-05-2020),  jonahst (01-04-2020),  Seabass (01-04-2020),  StillWater (01-04-2020)

  17. #10
    Registered Users
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    Israel Jerusalem
    Quote Originally Posted by hartaisarlag View Post
    Naively: maybe it’s that Eastern Ashkenazim have extra minor Middle Eastern (Mizrahi, Romaniote) and European (Slavic) ancestry, on top of a Rhineland Ashkenazi base?
    Join Team KNAAN!
    הִנְנִי֩ מֵבִ֨יא אוֹתָ֜ם מֵאֶ֣רֶץ צָפ֗וֹן

    Jeremiah 31

    Other potential and/or likely recent lineages: J-L816, J-PF5456, E-FGC56023

  18. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to StillWater For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (01-04-2020),  Claudio (01-05-2020),  hartaisarlag (01-04-2020),  John Doe (01-05-2020),  jonahst (01-04-2020)

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