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Thread: My father Azeri-Iranian results (summary)

  1. #21
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    Iranian Azeris do have a suppression in "SW Asian" relative to other Iranians - That general finding was first inferred via indirect evidence by me back in 2012-13 (well before the Iranian Azeri reference samples came from Yunusbayev et al. 2015) - On the basis that Iranian-descent individuals who were around half Azeri (myself, NK19191) just so happened to be less "SW Asian" than other Iranians and Kurmanji Kurds (one of the closest populations to Iranian Azeris).

    I don't find these older calculators especially informative given the "bleedover" effect in ADMIXTURE - It'd be great if you obtained his G25 coordinates from Davidski and then compared him against other Iranian Azeris in this 5-pop model.

    As you can see in the 5-pop setup, Iranian Azeris are generally less Hajji_Firuz_C than Kurdish groups and Lurs. Unsurprisingly, most of them had significant (>5%) admixture from the Medieval Turkish sample (who is identical to the Karakhanids genetically).

    Comparisons with Turks from Turkey won't be useful at all - They're substantially different (and him being 1/4 Mazandarani shifts him so far from them on the Anatolian_N:Iran_N axis that you'd literally need to include Ganj Dareh or some other old sample to make the fits work).

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnetic View Post
    mine

    also we already have an oracle with 19 populations . my oracle with the 19 pops

    [1,] "Zaza" "5.1927"
    [2,] "Azeri" "5.4079"
    [3,] "Kurdish" "6.2877"
    [4,] "Iran_Jew" "9.8842"
    [5,] "Geo_Jew" "10.0098"
    [6,] "Kurd_Jew" "10.2033"
    [7,] "Assyrian" "11.1409"
    [8,] "Armenian_West" "12.545"
    [9,] "Iraq_Jew" "13.9657"
    [10,] "Armenian_East" "14.0365"
    [11,] "Greek_Trabzon" "19.3317"
    [12,] "Hemsheni" "19.8417"
    [13,] "Turk_Trabzon" "22.2856"
    [14,] "Laz" "24.7656"
    [15,] "Cypriot" "26.5094"
    [16,] "Lezgin" "28.8084"
    [17,] "Georgian_West" "30.8197"
    [18,] "Abkhaz" "33.7351"
    [19,] "Chechen" "41.9986"

    mixedmode

    [,1] [,2]
    [1,] "47.8% Azeri + 52.2% Zaza" "3.9213"
    [2,] "28.8% Iran_Jew + 71.2% Azeri" "3.976"
    [3,] "28% Kurd_Jew + 72% Azeri" "3.9945"
    [4,] "20.2% Iraq_Jew + 79.8% Azeri" "4.225"
    [5,] "41% Kurdish + 59% Azeri" "4.4305"
    [6,] "22.7% Assyrian + 77.3% Azeri" "4.4999"
    [7,] "67.6% Kurdish + 32.4% Kurd_Jew" "4.5086"
    [8,] "20.8% Kurd_Jew + 79.2% Zaza" "4.6129"
    [9,] "7.7% Cypriot + 92.3% Zaza" "4.7111"
    [10,] "22.5% Geo_Jew + 77.5% Azeri" "4.767"
    [11,] "18.7% Iran_Jew + 81.3% Zaza" "4.7968"
    [12,] "68% Kurdish + 32% Iran_Jew" "4.8015"
    [13,] "14.4% Assyrian + 85.6% Zaza" "4.9141"
    [14,] "10.6% Iraq_Jew + 89.4% Zaza" "4.9549"
    [15,] "14.2% Geo_Jew + 85.8% Zaza" "4.9917"
    [16,] "78.2% Kurdish + 21.8% Iraq_Jew" "5.1412"
    [17,] "26.7% Assyrian + 73.3% Kurdish" "5.1557"
    [18,] "1% Armenian_West + 99% Zaza" "5.1914"
    [19,] "5.5% Cypriot + 94.5% Azeri" "5.1915"
    50% Adygei + 50% Syrian @ 6,762
    50% Syrian + 50% Kumyk @ 8,297
    50% Samaritians + 50% Lezgin @ 7,032
    50% KurdishJewish + 50% Cirkassian @ 4,596
    50% Georgian_Abkhazia_170 + 50% Assyrian_2_30 @ 4,927
    50% Lebanese_Druze + 50% Adygei @ 7,321


    Kurdish people gallery/thread -

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  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnetic View Post
    mine

    Thanks now I can make sense of it.
    I wonder why m father's SW Asian is so low. Most Azeri score well over 10 too it seems. Looking forward to the Oracles. Could you do oracles for my father's results?

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyp.snow View Post
    I wonder why m father's SW Asian is so low.
    Just read the other posts.

    Him being 1/4 Mazandarani is the reason.

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  7. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyp.snow View Post
    Thanks now I can make sense of it.
    I wonder why m father's SW Asian is so low. Most Azeri score well over 10 too it seems. Looking forward to the Oracles. Could you do oracles for my father's results?
    I didnt run it myself . and unfortunately I have deleted the pm with the R file . but dont worry the updated oracle will be available soon
    50% Adygei + 50% Syrian @ 6,762
    50% Syrian + 50% Kumyk @ 8,297
    50% Samaritians + 50% Lezgin @ 7,032
    50% KurdishJewish + 50% Cirkassian @ 4,596
    50% Georgian_Abkhazia_170 + 50% Assyrian_2_30 @ 4,927
    50% Lebanese_Druze + 50% Adygei @ 7,321


    Kurdish people gallery/thread -

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  9. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMXX View Post
    Iranian Azeris do have a suppression in "SW Asian" relative to other Iranians - That general finding was first inferred via indirect evidence by me back in 2012-13 (well before the Iranian Azeri reference samples came from Yunusbayev et al. 2015) - On the basis that Iranian-descent individuals who were around half Azeri (myself, NK19191) just so happened to be less "SW Asian" than other Iranians and Kurmanji Kurds (one of the closest populations to Iranian Azeris).

    I don't find these older calculators especially informative given the "bleedover" effect in ADMIXTURE - It'd be great if you obtained his G25 coordinates from Davidski and then compared him against other Iranian Azeris in this 5-pop model.

    As you can see in the 5-pop setup, Iranian Azeris are generally less Hajji_Firuz_C than Kurdish groups and Lurs. Unsurprisingly, most of them had significant (>5%) admixture from the Medieval Turkish sample (who is identical to the Karakhanids genetically).

    Comparisons with Turks from Turkey won't be useful at all - They're substantially different (and him being 1/4 Mazandarani shifts him so far from them on the Anatolian_N:Iran_N axis that you'd literally need to include Ganj Dareh or some other old sample to make the fits work).
    Will buy the G25 coordinates when possible again. It's still weird that he often gets modelled as 50% Anatolian Turkish + 50% Mazandaran. Since he is Afshar there is the possibility that his Turkoman side came from Anatolia during Safavid uprising. So "fairly" recent. I think his east eurasian is quite high for being mixed (around 8%)

    Using 2 populations approximation
    1 50% Yoruk + 50% Iran_Mazandaran @ 3,482
    2 50% Greek_Pontus + 50% Tajiks @ 3,706
    3 50% Turkmens + 50% Turk_East @ 3,819
    4 50% Iran_Mazandaran + 50% Turk_Southwest @ 3,867
    5 50% Turkmen_Iran + 50% Turk_East @ 3,945
    6 50% Iran_Mazandaran + 50% Turk_Northwest @ 3,997

    Using 3 populations approximation
    1 33% Azerbaijani_Dagestan + 33% Iran_Central_East + 33% Yoruk @ 3,325
    Last edited by kyp.snow; 05-29-2020 at 08:58 PM.

  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyp.snow View Post
    Will buy the G25 coordinates when possible again. It's still weird that he often gets modelled as 50% Western Turkish + 50% Mazandaranian. Since he is Afshar there is the possibility that his Turkoman side came from Anatolia during Safavid uprising. So "fairly" recent.
    Ah, missed this point.

    Yes, that's possible, though it remains to be explained why he's modeled as half Mazandarani when he's actually a quarter.

    His models don't look particularly consistent, so I'd infer that he does have some form of complex background that isn't being easily accounted for by the presets.

    He scores more N. Euro than what is typically observed in HarappaWorld and some of the other calculators - He's also regularly picking up a N. Caucasus signal in the multi pop Oracles.

    Could be suggestive of ancestry from northern Azerbaijan (the Republic) - Tens of thousands of Azeri tribes had to relocate further south in the 19th century due to Imperial Russian incursions into the Caucasus.

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  12. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMXX View Post
    Ah, missed this point.

    Yes, that's possible, though it remains to be explained why he's modeled as half Mazandarani when he's actually a quarter.

    His models don't look particularly consistent, so I'd infer that he does have some form of complex background that isn't being easily accounted for by the presets.

    He scores more N. Euro than what is typically observed in HarappaWorld and some of the other calculators - He's also regularly picking up a N. Caucasus signal in the multi pop Oracles.

    Could be suggestive of ancestry from northern Azerbaijan (the Republic) - Tens of thousands of Azeri tribes had to relocate further south in the 19th century due to Imperial Russian incursions into the Caucasus.
    Yes I wondered about that too. I think this could be because of the higher N.Euro and lack of SW.Asian. It could be an explanation although our tribe is not related to the Azeri tribes who came from Caucasus. But this is only going by history of course. On the contrary there is evidence for it existing under Dulkadir and Marash Turkmens in Anatolia prior to Safavids as well as Urmia during Timurid time. Later in Isfahan during Safavid reign and then move towards Azerbaijan region. This is what's documented or written.
    Last edited by kyp.snow; 05-29-2020 at 09:15 PM.

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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnetic View Post
    I didnt run it myself . and unfortunately I have deleted the pm with the R file . but dont worry the updated oracle will be available soon
    His non V3 version:

    Father

    Population
    Western European -
    Siberian 3.84 Pct
    East African 1.04 Pct
    West Central Asian 18.71 Pct
    South Asian 4.67 Pct
    West African -
    Caucasus 32.45 Pct
    Finnish 3.40 Pct
    Mediterranean 15.01 Pct
    Southwest Asian 7.03 Pct
    North European 10.12 Pct
    East Asian 3.72 Pct

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  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMXX View Post

    I don't find these older calculators especially informative given the "bleedover" effect in ADMIXTURE - It'd be great if you obtained his G25 coordinates from Davidski and then compared him against other Iranian Azeris in this 5-pop model.
    .
    Where do I find the coordinates for the model? Would like to run it since I have the coordinates now.

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