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Thread: South Asian Tribals

  1. #1
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    South Asian Tribals

    I just figured out how to use this Vahaduo thing yesterday and tried to model some South Asian high AASI tribal groups with ancient populations using David's G25 coordinates.

    I am new to this so I'm not sure if I'm doing this right, but anyways here it is:

    Capture.PNG


    I was able to get rid of the little Iberomaurusian in Paniya by adding Ust Ishim, but that did not work for Irula or Kadar.

    Hakkipikki appears to score like other caste groups - just a high AASI shifted version.


    Some of the tribals are scoring small but significant CHG and MA1 - where's all that coming from if it's not related to farmers or Steppe?

    Source coordinates
     

    IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N,0.0430252,0.0664158,-0.1550722,0.0047158,-0.122669,0.0235384,0.017109,-0.0011998,-0.082546,-0.0544158,-0.0028258,-0.0016186,0.0044896,-0.0062756,0.0316498,0.0561384,-0.0054242,0.0068664,0.0136508,-0.0334162,0.00856,-0.028836,-0.0110678,-0.039331,0.0222254
    IRN_Hajji_Firuz_BA,0.113823,0.117801,-0.003394,0.034884,-0.020927,0.019801,0.00893,0.000692,-0.045813,-0.036265,0.012017,0.007643,-0.004162,-0.012248,0.019815,0.001193,-0.007432,0.00038,-0.004902,0.002751,-0.000749,-0.00371,0.001356,0.005061,0.000958
    IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C,0.0896355,0.1327805,-0.0780642,-0.0667802,-0.0437002,-0.0196618,0.0098702,-0.0065768,-0.035178,-0.0030977,0.0051965,-0.0013113,-0.0006317,-0.0019613,-0.0046145,0.0036128,0.00088,0.0022802,0.0032995,-0.0063468,0.0045232,-0.0033388,-0.00835,-0.0118992,0.0006588
    IRN_HotuIIIb_Meso,0.052359,0.064994,-0.124073,0.043282,-0.112636,0.019522,0.003995,-0.007615,-0.071992,-0.053031,0.009906,0.008842,0.001933,-0.017616,0.030673,0.055157,0.004824,-0.010769,0.010559,-0.029389,0.001123,-0.013231,-0.00493,-0.022413,0.025507
    IRN_Seh_Gabi_LN,0.05122,0.081242,-0.153488,-0.021964,-0.101865,0.006414,0.014336,0.003231,-0.068925,-0.045559,0,0.00045,0.012636,-0.008533,0.02348,0.059665,0.001956,0.008615,0.0082 96,-0.034266,0.012478,-0.020897,-0.00456,-0.024823,0.01916
    IRN_Tepe_Abdul_Hosein_N,0.0421147,0.0639783,-0.1541163,0.0010767,-0.119407,0.0212883,0.0104187,-0.0023077,-0.0809913,-0.057283,-0.002436,-0.002148,0.0040137,-0.0096337,0.0314873,0.0555107,-0.0067363,0.0061233,0.0131143,-0.0351837,0.0062807,-0.0250607,-0.0085453,-0.0374753,0.019958
    IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C,0.0780205,0.0973985,-0.1210557,-0.0128319,-0.0964655,0.0129052,0.0135666,-0.0041957,-0.0710069,-0.0366129,-0.0049454,-0.0008311,-0.0011082,-0.0034781,0.0189268,0.0286995,-0.0069221,0.0043305,0.0072791,-0.0235001,0.0067043,-0.0146134,-0.0055349,-0.0227852,0.01339
    IRN_Wezmeh_N,0.037562,0.072103,-0.165556,-0.016473,-0.11756,0.01506,0.017861,-0.003231,-0.071583,-0.046835,0.003085,-0.003147,0.00669,0.000688,0.022122,0.053036,-0.011735,0.001014,0.014581,-0.035267,0.009358,-0.023741,-0.006655,-0.032896,0.019998
    S_AASI_Sim Av,-0.007017607,-0.247268894,-0.229976338,0.16563825,-0.035368871,0.064331863,-0.015188881,0.027727614,0.147380455,0.101064071,-0.004664075,-0.004333522,0.003228897,0.026031903,-0.047720864,-0.045200255,0.010093749,0.000906224,0.000245098,0. 039040136,0.009429353,0.024010206,-0.003068505,0.015983546,-0.010868946
    GEO_CHG,0.091058,0.102568,-0.083344,-0.00323,-0.08617,0.020638,0.024911,-0.001846,-0.128236,-0.074717,-0.006333,0.023979,-0.054856,0.004404,0.026601,-0.03275,0.02386,-0.013429,-0.022249,0.034767,0.033815,-0.007048,0.006532,-0.025787,-0.002036
    RUS_Sintashta_MLBA,0.125389,0.1158031,0.0572615,0. 0789266,0.011327,0.0284468,0.005678,0.0041909,-0.0174834,-0.0282348,-0.0024254,0.0012473,-0.0030739,-0.0212915,0.0226566,0.0124762,-0.0050555,0.0004086,-6.9e-05,-0.0007423,-0.0059089,0.0020542,0.0026159,0.0066506,-0.0039363
    RUS_Tyumen_HG,0.103579,-0.059916,0.100314,0.202199,-0.091094,0.044901,-0.048882,-0.054921,-0.035178,-0.090571,0.028093,-0.011989,0.02661,-0.077619,0.028637,0.01485,-0.015646,-0.004814,-0.004399,0.001376,-0.025705,0.011747,0.02465,0.00976,-0.013053
    IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1,0.0736055,0.0626243,-0.1309865,0.0219102,-0.1084818,0.0284002,0.0085778,-0.0026922,-0.0638455,-0.0369028,-0.0050612,0.0005995,-0.0060207,-0.0083718,0.021127,0.0313133,-0.0025208,0.002196,0.0030587,-0.0245952,0.007965,-0.016961,-0.0021363,-0.0190187,0.0136515
    IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2,0.043708,-0.0327002,-0.170006,0.0950268,-0.1047582,0.0568936,0.0063452,0.0041998,0.0056858, 0.0067428,-0.0051964,0.0079128,-0.0018436,-0.0031928,0.0098534,0.0097852,-0.0023732,0.0025084,0.0016342,-0.0142568,0.0029694,-0.0125136,-0.0011832,-0.0119052,0.001317
    WHG,0.1246365,0.116278,0.184789,0.189279,0.1546445 ,0.0464355,0.0131605,0.0372675,0.0890705,0.017768,-0.0153455,-0.015811,0.0159065,-0.0030275,0.053338,0.0582065,0.00502,0.016343,-0.0093015,0.055589,0.0944585,0.0111905,-0.049607,-0.160866,0.0170045
    TJK_Dashti_Kozy_BA,0.118376,0.100876,0.0369577,0.0 83011,-0.0053343,0.0299343,0.0029767,0.0016153,-0.0258383,-0.038695,-0.0036807,-0.0015483,-0.0015857,-0.0209647,0.021851,0.019712,4.33e-05,-0.0025337,-0.0001257,0.0015427,-0.005324,-0.0026793,-0.0006987,0.0075913,-0.0029937
    TJK_Sarazm_En,0.084798,0.060424,-0.1067255,0.043928,-0.1223305,0.039184,0.006345,-0.0077305,-0.0818095,-0.06196,0.0034915,0.0103405,-0.009217,-0.0137625,0.032437,0.0147175,-0.0199485,0.000253,-0.000377,-0.0231985,-0.0052405,-0.009583,0.006224,-0.018376,0.009101
    TKM_Gonur1_BA,0.0797711,0.0788728,-0.1109992,0.0083172,-0.0985823,0.0210331,0.0070112,-0.006269,-0.0638796,-0.0407905,-0.0022328,0.0026476,-0.0055005,-0.0064683,0.0183108,0.0248938,-0.0047916,0.0007389,0.0045462,-0.0232508,-0.0020797,-0.0143128,-0.0016537,-0.0157552,0.0111767
    TKM_Gonur2_BA,0.0569115,0.007109,-0.162539,0.068476,-0.112944,0.041136,0.0094,0.001846,-0.020452,-0.0112075,0.010474,0.0059945,0.000966,-0.0015135,0.0088895,0.01074,-0.0046285,0.0048145,0.0060965,-0.014257,0.010045,-0.0201555,0.002773,-0.0209665,0.003892
    TKM_Gonur3_BA,0.095611,0.087336,-0.098806,-0.023579,-0.08063,0.00502,0.00658,-0.002077,-0.043768,-0.020775,-0.012504,-0.001049,-0.012785,-0.013487,0.013572,0.021347,0.003912,0.005574,-0.017723,-0.012631,-0.003494,-0.013849,-0.011216,-0.008435,0.025507
    TKM_Namazga_Tepe_En,0.0762615,0.080227,-0.112382,0.0137275,-0.098634,0.0242635,0.011633,-0.0107305,-0.0759805,-0.045741,-8.1e-05,0.001948,-0.0141225,-0.008051,0.0254475,0.021546,-0.0157115,0.000887,0.00817,-0.027263,-0.0001245,-0.0128595,0.0016025,-0.015785,0.011556
    TKM_Parkhai_EBA,0.086506,0.084289,-0.122564,0.00646,-0.107097,0.021475,0.009635,-0.003,-0.078742,-0.042279,0.002598,0.004346,-0.005352,-0.019267,0.028094,0.038318,0.003651,0.002027,0.004 022,-0.019759,0.007112,-0.017806,-0.002465,-0.015906,0.023351
    TKM_Parkhai_En,0.0748388,0.0870818,-0.135952,0.0096092,-0.1122518,0.0257975,0.0103405,-0.002596,-0.080838,-0.0501605,-0.001502,0.0027725,-0.0054263,-0.0100122,0.0231063,0.0284072,-0.01017,0.0040222,0.0074475,-0.0241992,0.0038058,-0.0193825,-0.002927,-0.0242202,0.0121542
    TKM_Parkhai_LBA,0.083091,0.096475,-0.108988,-0.007106,-0.094479,0.018686,0.003995,-0.001846,-0.079969,-0.039727,0.004872,0.008692,-0.00223,-0.007707,0.021715,0.035667,0.009909,0.005068,0.009 553,-0.018759,0.012228,-0.0115,-0.003328,-0.017231,0.01437
    TKM_Parkhai_MBA,0.080814,0.091398,-0.126335,-0.004522,-0.111713,0.0251,0.00846,-0.006,-0.084468,-0.042825,-0.003897,0.002098,-0.004757,-0.006606,0.020901,0.01432,-0.026729,0.004181,0.018226,-0.029639,0.000125,-0.016693,-0.001479,-0.020123,0.011616
    UZB_Bustan_En,0.069432,0.085304,-0.130484,0.01292,-0.109251,0.019801,0.011045,-0.009461,-0.081196,-0.055582,-0.003085,-0.003747,-0.005798,-0.006881,0.02348,0.039644,0.001434,0.002534,0.0057 82,-0.024512,-0.000499,-0.017188,-0.013434,-0.018677,0.019519
    UZB_Dzharkutan1_BA,0.0813021,0.0764549,-0.1100653,0.0094131,-0.0975127,0.0232676,0.0047,-0.0089339,-0.0625259,-0.0395713,0.0016936,-0.0010277,-0.0001274,-0.0121304,0.0200089,0.026537,-0.0060907,0.0029863,0.0027113,-0.0196344,0.0007131,-0.0107049,-0.0014439,-0.0143564,0.0090667
    UZB_Dzharkutan2_BA,0.1058555,0.0934285,-0.0409175,-0.021318,-0.040777,0.0005575,0.005405,-0.0019615,-0.0608455,-0.0276995,-0.0047095,0.012739,-0.020069,0.003785,0.006582,-0.014187,0.015972,-0.004561,-0.011941,0.0208225,0.011542,0.002473,-0.0012325,-0.006326,-0.0034725
    MAR_Iberomaurusian,-0.189857,0.0814452,-0.0242866,-0.085595,0.027636,-0.0552202,-0.0705968,0.0184146,0.155397,0.003499,0.0209156,-0.0318316,0.0747168,-0.0513334,0.0711988,-0.0363032,0.0052676,-0.066106,-0.1424162,0.0389938,-0.0376836,-0.1255322,0.0730118,-0.0137606,0.0164534
    RUS_MA1,0.078538,-0.025388,0.039598,0.186049,-0.068936,0.04518,-0.048412,-0.056998,-0.019839,-0.069432,0.029879,-0.009591,0.015312,-0.045553,0.014251,0.021082,-0.007693,0,-0.003645,0.000625,-0.027327,0.002844,0.011339,-0.008314,-0.001437
    CHN_Tianyuan,-0.027318,-0.260991,-0.075424,0.071383,0.033545,-0.018407,-0.00799,-0.003,0.040291,0.021322,-0.006333,-0.005995,-0.003568,-0.00523,-0.000407,-0.000663,0.008084,0.002407,-0.001131,0.027263,-0.001747,0.008037,-0.008874,-0.010845,0.011256
    Anatolia_Pinarbasi_HG,0.113823,0.166547,0.029793,-0.082688,0.070782,-0.04016,-0.005875,0.001846,0.04745,0.079637,0.006008,0.0091 42,-0.021407,-0.009358,-0.042073,-0.003713,0.0442,-0.002787,0.008045,-0.001251,-0.013851,0.003339,-0.003451,-0.009278,-0.005628
    RUS_Ust_Ishim,-0.050082,-0.11577,-0.090886,0.073644,0.027082,-0.018128,-0.00376,-0.004384,0.0452,0.010387,0.006008,-0.001798,0.000149,-0.003991,0.004614,-0.001724,-0.004955,0.004687,-0.005154,0.015382,0.006613,0.008532,-0.007641,-0.014942,0.007784
    LAO_Hoabinhian,-0.025041,-0.224432,-0.11917,0.087856,0.022466,-0.001952,-0.003055,0.01223,0.060539,0.018406,0.012829,0.0011 99,-0.000446,0.006055,-0.007872,-0.006364,-0.00352,-0.00076,-0.005531,0.023386,0.006988,0.013107,-0.017131,-0.001325,0.003712


    Target coordinates
     

    Paniya,0.0085637,-0.1650478,-0.1863694,0.1380143,-0.048683,0.0526173,-0.0055841,0.0167904,0.0864746,0.0548009,0.0048639, 0.0002854,-0.0030087,0.0140964,-0.0226783,-0.0274207,0.0106108,-0.0005973,-0.0033041,0.0280373,0.0073857,0.0130011,-0.0094138,0.0062888,-0.0075499
    Irula,0.0159352,-0.1477594,-0.1851285,0.1288618,-0.0545947,0.0568936,-0.0039832,0.0151839,0.0761954,0.0502424,-0.0002923,0.0008092,-0.0002825,0.0092206,-0.0176842,-0.017608,0.0104634,-0.0007285,-0.0013576,0.0204411,0.0058832,0.0070916,-0.0054475,0.0042114,-0.0066879
    Kadar,0.0092766,-0.1553252,-0.1854302,0.1328348,-0.054564,0.0543279,-0.0056518,0.0159338,0.0827606,0.0537232,0.0021597,-0.0003896,-0.0007804,0.012214,-0.0218918,-0.0179792,0.0139966,-0.0004053,-0.0024324,0.0231424,0.0067818,0.0101643,-0.0051086,0.0055066,-0.0076999
    Pulliyar,0.0147972,-0.1454745,-0.1853548,0.1296855,-0.0555488,0.055081,-0.0046412,0.0182877,0.0817073,0.0570855,8.12e-05,-0.0011615,-0.0013753,0.0146568,-0.027687,-0.0178995,0.0143752,0.0016152,0.0026082,0.0251998, 0.0048975,0.0141585,-0.0075182,0.0079528,-0.0086518
    Hakkipikki,0.0307323,-0.1178013,-0.1806407,0.1255403,-0.0695517,0.0615417,-0.0036033,0.0183837,0.06947,0.044101,-0.0044927,0.0003997,0.0014863,0.009817,-0.01217,-0.021126,-0.0056063,0.003632,0.0015923,0.008379,0.002454,0.0 031737,0.0025473,0.001968,-0.0053887

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  3. #2
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    Uzbekistan India Uzbekistan
    IMO, using simulated "Southern AASI" to model SI adivasis may really make sense as this simulated entity has been derived from them in the first place.

    I think Paniya, Irula, Pulliyar, Kadar are the most AHG, Hakkipikki etc are more similar to caste populations(SI low castes) and have around 10%+ less Harappaworld SI.

    One thing I noticed was that when attempting to model them as InPe derived Iran and AHG + Hoabinhian, they require an additional ANF rich source (something like Hajji_Firuz_Chl) over InPe derived Iran

    Target: Pulliyar
    Distance: 3.1516% / 0.03151561
    49.2 100AHG
    19.8 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C
    16.2 LAO_Hoabinhian
    14.8 0AHG
    0.0 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_MLBA

    compare with a caste population
    Target: Piramalai
    Distance: 2.7149% / 0.02714929
    44.8 0AHG
    40.0 100AHG
    8.6 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C
    5.2 LAO_Hoabinhian
    1.4 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_MLBA


    I'm not sure whether this excess ANF is simply a "correction factor" that comes into play because we are attempting to model groups with AHG in excess of the groups the same was derived from(InPe). However this excess ANF still seems to persist when SI tribals are used in models as references vs InPe.

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  5. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by thejkhan View Post
    I just figured out how to use this Vahaduo thing yesterday and tried to model some South Asian high AASI tribal groups with ancient populations using David's G25 coordinates.

    I am new to this so I'm not sure if I'm doing this right, but anyways here it is:

    Capture.PNG


    I was able to get rid of the little Iberomaurusian in Paniya by adding Ust Ishim, but that did not work for Irula or Kadar.

    Hakkipikki appears to score like other caste groups just a high AASI shifted version.


    Some of the tribals are scoring small but significant CHG and MA1 - where's all that coming from if it's not related to farmers or Steppe?

    Source coordinates
     

    IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N,0.0430252,0.0664158,-0.1550722,0.0047158,-0.122669,0.0235384,0.017109,-0.0011998,-0.082546,-0.0544158,-0.0028258,-0.0016186,0.0044896,-0.0062756,0.0316498,0.0561384,-0.0054242,0.0068664,0.0136508,-0.0334162,0.00856,-0.028836,-0.0110678,-0.039331,0.0222254
    IRN_Hajji_Firuz_BA,0.113823,0.117801,-0.003394,0.034884,-0.020927,0.019801,0.00893,0.000692,-0.045813,-0.036265,0.012017,0.007643,-0.004162,-0.012248,0.019815,0.001193,-0.007432,0.00038,-0.004902,0.002751,-0.000749,-0.00371,0.001356,0.005061,0.000958
    IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C,0.0896355,0.1327805,-0.0780642,-0.0667802,-0.0437002,-0.0196618,0.0098702,-0.0065768,-0.035178,-0.0030977,0.0051965,-0.0013113,-0.0006317,-0.0019613,-0.0046145,0.0036128,0.00088,0.0022802,0.0032995,-0.0063468,0.0045232,-0.0033388,-0.00835,-0.0118992,0.0006588
    IRN_HotuIIIb_Meso,0.052359,0.064994,-0.124073,0.043282,-0.112636,0.019522,0.003995,-0.007615,-0.071992,-0.053031,0.009906,0.008842,0.001933,-0.017616,0.030673,0.055157,0.004824,-0.010769,0.010559,-0.029389,0.001123,-0.013231,-0.00493,-0.022413,0.025507
    IRN_Seh_Gabi_LN,0.05122,0.081242,-0.153488,-0.021964,-0.101865,0.006414,0.014336,0.003231,-0.068925,-0.045559,0,0.00045,0.012636,-0.008533,0.02348,0.059665,0.001956,0.008615,0.0082 96,-0.034266,0.012478,-0.020897,-0.00456,-0.024823,0.01916
    IRN_Tepe_Abdul_Hosein_N,0.0421147,0.0639783,-0.1541163,0.0010767,-0.119407,0.0212883,0.0104187,-0.0023077,-0.0809913,-0.057283,-0.002436,-0.002148,0.0040137,-0.0096337,0.0314873,0.0555107,-0.0067363,0.0061233,0.0131143,-0.0351837,0.0062807,-0.0250607,-0.0085453,-0.0374753,0.019958
    IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C,0.0780205,0.0973985,-0.1210557,-0.0128319,-0.0964655,0.0129052,0.0135666,-0.0041957,-0.0710069,-0.0366129,-0.0049454,-0.0008311,-0.0011082,-0.0034781,0.0189268,0.0286995,-0.0069221,0.0043305,0.0072791,-0.0235001,0.0067043,-0.0146134,-0.0055349,-0.0227852,0.01339
    IRN_Wezmeh_N,0.037562,0.072103,-0.165556,-0.016473,-0.11756,0.01506,0.017861,-0.003231,-0.071583,-0.046835,0.003085,-0.003147,0.00669,0.000688,0.022122,0.053036,-0.011735,0.001014,0.014581,-0.035267,0.009358,-0.023741,-0.006655,-0.032896,0.019998
    S_AASI_Sim Av,-0.007017607,-0.247268894,-0.229976338,0.16563825,-0.035368871,0.064331863,-0.015188881,0.027727614,0.147380455,0.101064071,-0.004664075,-0.004333522,0.003228897,0.026031903,-0.047720864,-0.045200255,0.010093749,0.000906224,0.000245098,0. 039040136,0.009429353,0.024010206,-0.003068505,0.015983546,-0.010868946
    GEO_CHG,0.091058,0.102568,-0.083344,-0.00323,-0.08617,0.020638,0.024911,-0.001846,-0.128236,-0.074717,-0.006333,0.023979,-0.054856,0.004404,0.026601,-0.03275,0.02386,-0.013429,-0.022249,0.034767,0.033815,-0.007048,0.006532,-0.025787,-0.002036
    RUS_Sintashta_MLBA,0.125389,0.1158031,0.0572615,0. 0789266,0.011327,0.0284468,0.005678,0.0041909,-0.0174834,-0.0282348,-0.0024254,0.0012473,-0.0030739,-0.0212915,0.0226566,0.0124762,-0.0050555,0.0004086,-6.9e-05,-0.0007423,-0.0059089,0.0020542,0.0026159,0.0066506,-0.0039363
    RUS_Tyumen_HG,0.103579,-0.059916,0.100314,0.202199,-0.091094,0.044901,-0.048882,-0.054921,-0.035178,-0.090571,0.028093,-0.011989,0.02661,-0.077619,0.028637,0.01485,-0.015646,-0.004814,-0.004399,0.001376,-0.025705,0.011747,0.02465,0.00976,-0.013053
    IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1,0.0736055,0.0626243,-0.1309865,0.0219102,-0.1084818,0.0284002,0.0085778,-0.0026922,-0.0638455,-0.0369028,-0.0050612,0.0005995,-0.0060207,-0.0083718,0.021127,0.0313133,-0.0025208,0.002196,0.0030587,-0.0245952,0.007965,-0.016961,-0.0021363,-0.0190187,0.0136515
    IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2,0.043708,-0.0327002,-0.170006,0.0950268,-0.1047582,0.0568936,0.0063452,0.0041998,0.0056858, 0.0067428,-0.0051964,0.0079128,-0.0018436,-0.0031928,0.0098534,0.0097852,-0.0023732,0.0025084,0.0016342,-0.0142568,0.0029694,-0.0125136,-0.0011832,-0.0119052,0.001317
    WHG,0.1246365,0.116278,0.184789,0.189279,0.1546445 ,0.0464355,0.0131605,0.0372675,0.0890705,0.017768,-0.0153455,-0.015811,0.0159065,-0.0030275,0.053338,0.0582065,0.00502,0.016343,-0.0093015,0.055589,0.0944585,0.0111905,-0.049607,-0.160866,0.0170045
    TJK_Dashti_Kozy_BA,0.118376,0.100876,0.0369577,0.0 83011,-0.0053343,0.0299343,0.0029767,0.0016153,-0.0258383,-0.038695,-0.0036807,-0.0015483,-0.0015857,-0.0209647,0.021851,0.019712,4.33e-05,-0.0025337,-0.0001257,0.0015427,-0.005324,-0.0026793,-0.0006987,0.0075913,-0.0029937
    TJK_Sarazm_En,0.084798,0.060424,-0.1067255,0.043928,-0.1223305,0.039184,0.006345,-0.0077305,-0.0818095,-0.06196,0.0034915,0.0103405,-0.009217,-0.0137625,0.032437,0.0147175,-0.0199485,0.000253,-0.000377,-0.0231985,-0.0052405,-0.009583,0.006224,-0.018376,0.009101
    TKM_Gonur1_BA,0.0797711,0.0788728,-0.1109992,0.0083172,-0.0985823,0.0210331,0.0070112,-0.006269,-0.0638796,-0.0407905,-0.0022328,0.0026476,-0.0055005,-0.0064683,0.0183108,0.0248938,-0.0047916,0.0007389,0.0045462,-0.0232508,-0.0020797,-0.0143128,-0.0016537,-0.0157552,0.0111767
    TKM_Gonur2_BA,0.0569115,0.007109,-0.162539,0.068476,-0.112944,0.041136,0.0094,0.001846,-0.020452,-0.0112075,0.010474,0.0059945,0.000966,-0.0015135,0.0088895,0.01074,-0.0046285,0.0048145,0.0060965,-0.014257,0.010045,-0.0201555,0.002773,-0.0209665,0.003892
    TKM_Gonur3_BA,0.095611,0.087336,-0.098806,-0.023579,-0.08063,0.00502,0.00658,-0.002077,-0.043768,-0.020775,-0.012504,-0.001049,-0.012785,-0.013487,0.013572,0.021347,0.003912,0.005574,-0.017723,-0.012631,-0.003494,-0.013849,-0.011216,-0.008435,0.025507
    TKM_Namazga_Tepe_En,0.0762615,0.080227,-0.112382,0.0137275,-0.098634,0.0242635,0.011633,-0.0107305,-0.0759805,-0.045741,-8.1e-05,0.001948,-0.0141225,-0.008051,0.0254475,0.021546,-0.0157115,0.000887,0.00817,-0.027263,-0.0001245,-0.0128595,0.0016025,-0.015785,0.011556
    TKM_Parkhai_EBA,0.086506,0.084289,-0.122564,0.00646,-0.107097,0.021475,0.009635,-0.003,-0.078742,-0.042279,0.002598,0.004346,-0.005352,-0.019267,0.028094,0.038318,0.003651,0.002027,0.004 022,-0.019759,0.007112,-0.017806,-0.002465,-0.015906,0.023351
    TKM_Parkhai_En,0.0748388,0.0870818,-0.135952,0.0096092,-0.1122518,0.0257975,0.0103405,-0.002596,-0.080838,-0.0501605,-0.001502,0.0027725,-0.0054263,-0.0100122,0.0231063,0.0284072,-0.01017,0.0040222,0.0074475,-0.0241992,0.0038058,-0.0193825,-0.002927,-0.0242202,0.0121542
    TKM_Parkhai_LBA,0.083091,0.096475,-0.108988,-0.007106,-0.094479,0.018686,0.003995,-0.001846,-0.079969,-0.039727,0.004872,0.008692,-0.00223,-0.007707,0.021715,0.035667,0.009909,0.005068,0.009 553,-0.018759,0.012228,-0.0115,-0.003328,-0.017231,0.01437
    TKM_Parkhai_MBA,0.080814,0.091398,-0.126335,-0.004522,-0.111713,0.0251,0.00846,-0.006,-0.084468,-0.042825,-0.003897,0.002098,-0.004757,-0.006606,0.020901,0.01432,-0.026729,0.004181,0.018226,-0.029639,0.000125,-0.016693,-0.001479,-0.020123,0.011616
    UZB_Bustan_En,0.069432,0.085304,-0.130484,0.01292,-0.109251,0.019801,0.011045,-0.009461,-0.081196,-0.055582,-0.003085,-0.003747,-0.005798,-0.006881,0.02348,0.039644,0.001434,0.002534,0.0057 82,-0.024512,-0.000499,-0.017188,-0.013434,-0.018677,0.019519
    UZB_Dzharkutan1_BA,0.0813021,0.0764549,-0.1100653,0.0094131,-0.0975127,0.0232676,0.0047,-0.0089339,-0.0625259,-0.0395713,0.0016936,-0.0010277,-0.0001274,-0.0121304,0.0200089,0.026537,-0.0060907,0.0029863,0.0027113,-0.0196344,0.0007131,-0.0107049,-0.0014439,-0.0143564,0.0090667
    UZB_Dzharkutan2_BA,0.1058555,0.0934285,-0.0409175,-0.021318,-0.040777,0.0005575,0.005405,-0.0019615,-0.0608455,-0.0276995,-0.0047095,0.012739,-0.020069,0.003785,0.006582,-0.014187,0.015972,-0.004561,-0.011941,0.0208225,0.011542,0.002473,-0.0012325,-0.006326,-0.0034725
    MAR_Iberomaurusian,-0.189857,0.0814452,-0.0242866,-0.085595,0.027636,-0.0552202,-0.0705968,0.0184146,0.155397,0.003499,0.0209156,-0.0318316,0.0747168,-0.0513334,0.0711988,-0.0363032,0.0052676,-0.066106,-0.1424162,0.0389938,-0.0376836,-0.1255322,0.0730118,-0.0137606,0.0164534
    RUS_MA1,0.078538,-0.025388,0.039598,0.186049,-0.068936,0.04518,-0.048412,-0.056998,-0.019839,-0.069432,0.029879,-0.009591,0.015312,-0.045553,0.014251,0.021082,-0.007693,0,-0.003645,0.000625,-0.027327,0.002844,0.011339,-0.008314,-0.001437
    CHN_Tianyuan,-0.027318,-0.260991,-0.075424,0.071383,0.033545,-0.018407,-0.00799,-0.003,0.040291,0.021322,-0.006333,-0.005995,-0.003568,-0.00523,-0.000407,-0.000663,0.008084,0.002407,-0.001131,0.027263,-0.001747,0.008037,-0.008874,-0.010845,0.011256
    Anatolia_Pinarbasi_HG,0.113823,0.166547,0.029793,-0.082688,0.070782,-0.04016,-0.005875,0.001846,0.04745,0.079637,0.006008,0.0091 42,-0.021407,-0.009358,-0.042073,-0.003713,0.0442,-0.002787,0.008045,-0.001251,-0.013851,0.003339,-0.003451,-0.009278,-0.005628
    RUS_Ust_Ishim,-0.050082,-0.11577,-0.090886,0.073644,0.027082,-0.018128,-0.00376,-0.004384,0.0452,0.010387,0.006008,-0.001798,0.000149,-0.003991,0.004614,-0.001724,-0.004955,0.004687,-0.005154,0.015382,0.006613,0.008532,-0.007641,-0.014942,0.007784
    LAO_Hoabinhian,-0.025041,-0.224432,-0.11917,0.087856,0.022466,-0.001952,-0.003055,0.01223,0.060539,0.018406,0.012829,0.0011 99,-0.000446,0.006055,-0.007872,-0.006364,-0.00352,-0.00076,-0.005531,0.023386,0.006988,0.013107,-0.017131,-0.001325,0.003712


    Target coordinates
     

    Paniya,0.0085637,-0.1650478,-0.1863694,0.1380143,-0.048683,0.0526173,-0.0055841,0.0167904,0.0864746,0.0548009,0.0048639, 0.0002854,-0.0030087,0.0140964,-0.0226783,-0.0274207,0.0106108,-0.0005973,-0.0033041,0.0280373,0.0073857,0.0130011,-0.0094138,0.0062888,-0.0075499
    Irula,0.0159352,-0.1477594,-0.1851285,0.1288618,-0.0545947,0.0568936,-0.0039832,0.0151839,0.0761954,0.0502424,-0.0002923,0.0008092,-0.0002825,0.0092206,-0.0176842,-0.017608,0.0104634,-0.0007285,-0.0013576,0.0204411,0.0058832,0.0070916,-0.0054475,0.0042114,-0.0066879
    Kadar,0.0092766,-0.1553252,-0.1854302,0.1328348,-0.054564,0.0543279,-0.0056518,0.0159338,0.0827606,0.0537232,0.0021597,-0.0003896,-0.0007804,0.012214,-0.0218918,-0.0179792,0.0139966,-0.0004053,-0.0024324,0.0231424,0.0067818,0.0101643,-0.0051086,0.0055066,-0.0076999
    Pulliyar,0.0147972,-0.1454745,-0.1853548,0.1296855,-0.0555488,0.055081,-0.0046412,0.0182877,0.0817073,0.0570855,8.12e-05,-0.0011615,-0.0013753,0.0146568,-0.027687,-0.0178995,0.0143752,0.0016152,0.0026082,0.0251998, 0.0048975,0.0141585,-0.0075182,0.0079528,-0.0086518
    Hakkipikki,0.0307323,-0.1178013,-0.1806407,0.1255403,-0.0695517,0.0615417,-0.0036033,0.0183837,0.06947,0.044101,-0.0044927,0.0003997,0.0014863,0.009817,-0.01217,-0.021126,-0.0056063,0.003632,0.0015923,0.008379,0.002454,0.0 031737,0.0025473,0.001968,-0.0053887
    Puliyar are not tribal but scheduled caste

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulayar

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  7. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by discreetmaverick View Post
    Puliyar are not tribal but scheduled caste

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulayar
    You are right, but personally I don't think any of these 'tribals' are actually (direct) remnants of an ancient hunter gatherer population - they seem like outcastes of civilization who have been relegated to the jungles.
    Paniyas for example-
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    The Paniya have historically worked as agricultural labourers. They are believed to have been brought to Wayanad by the king of Malabar, and thereafter tilled the land as serfs. Following the abolishment of the slave-holding system, the Paniya were resettled in different areas established by the government
    Chenchus have an interesting social status-
    https://manasataramgini.wordpress.co...l1-haplogroup/

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    Quote Originally Posted by client View Post
    You are right, but personally I don't think any of these 'tribals' are actually (direct) remnants of an ancient hunter gatherer population - they seem like outcastes of civilization who have been relegated to the jungles.
    Paniyas for example-


    Chenchus have an interesting social status-
    https://manasataramgini.wordpress.co...l1-haplogroup/
    The non-AA tribes do seem to overlap with the SC pops in terms of AASI, so I was assuming “Hinduization” of tribal folks during the colonial times created the SC groups. Are you suggesting that SC groups that were further cast outs became modern tribals? Even assuming that, there are still genuine tribal groups that are linguistic isolates. I think the population explosion after the colonial times made things blurred but the nature of society back then would have made enough room for the tribal culture everywhere in South Asia.

    The SouthAsian tribals are incredibly inbred (per that Harvard disease paper from 2016/7). So there had to have been extreme pressure on those groups. The question is — starting when? It would be interesting to see the dates for admixture among the Tribals versus the SC groups.

    If I’m wrong in my hunches, feel free to educate me.

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    I'm saying that the distinction between SC and ST(in certain regions) may be blurred. it's possible imo that the present day SI Tribals represent a derivative of Southern Neolithic Complex "outcastes" + local hunter gatherers(everyone would have this admixture, but it would be greater in the present day Adivasis)

    They practice extreme endogamy and Dravidian marital customs(cross cousin marriage) hence the inbred-ness I guess?

    I don't know how recently they(SI tribals) were Hinduised but they seem to follow "Hindu" customs as far as I can tell. They worship Hindu/Hinduised deities, have kula-devatas/ishta-devatas etc.

    Some of them(Irulas come to mind) have origin myths where they claim to be descended from degraded Munis who were cursed to live in the forests.
    I have also heard that some claim descent from(or relation to) the Nishadas of the Mahabharata.

    But then again it is a matter of what one considers identity to be. Sure, a hunter gatherer identity with distinct culture to the mainstream must have existed at some point, but this identity does not seem to have prevailed post-urbanisation(whether or not urbanisation is assumed to be at the hands a completely different group). So these matters are more complex than a simple black and white dichotomy.
    Last edited by client; 01-09-2020 at 03:53 PM.

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    It’s incredible that these folks are so distinct autosomally from their immediate neighbors. I’m from just a few hundred miles from where(I think) these tribals live, yet I’m slightly closer to the Burusho living far far away than to paniya. Although phenotypically I’m orders of magnitude closer to the latter, so I have a strong connection anyway.
    There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out-Russian proverb

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    Quote Originally Posted by client View Post
    I'm saying that the distinction between SC and ST(in certain regions) may be blurred. it's possible imo that the present day SI Tribals represent a derivative of Southern Neolithic Complex "outcastes" + local hunter gatherers(everyone would have this admixture, but it would be greater in the present day Adivasis)

    They practice extreme endogamy and Dravidian marital customs(cross cousin marriage) hence the inbred-ness I guess?

    I don't know how recently they(SI tribals) were Hinduised but they seem to follow "Hindu" customs as far as I can tell. They worship Hindu/Hinduised deities, have kula-devatas/ishta-devatas etc.

    Some of them(Irulas come to mind) have origin myths where they claim to be descended from degraded Munis who were cursed to live in the forests.
    I have also heard that some claim descent from(or relation to) the Nishadas of the Mahabharata.

    But then again it is a matter of what one considers identity to be. Sure, a hunter gatherer identity with distinct culture to the mainstream must have existed at some point, but this identity does not seem to have prevailed post-urbanisation(whether or not urbanisation is assumed to be at the hands a completely different group). So these matters are more complex than a simple black and white dichotomy.
    They still retain some of hunter-gatherers forms of worship

    These are some of the tribals living in Wayanad.
    Paniyas, Adiyas, Kattunayakans, Kurichiyans,Kurumas,Ooralis, Uraali Kurumas etc.

    Paniyas

    They also worship Banyan tree. They hesitate to cut such trees and if anyone attempts to cut such trees, they fall sick.

    THE KATTUNAYAKAN

    They worship animals, birds, trees, rock hillocks and snakes. They are firm believers in black magic and sorcery. They also worship their ancestors

    Though paniyas work as agricultural laborers their subject Kattupaniyar, inhabits the forest region of Nilambur in the Malappuram District. Here, members lead a traditional hunter-gatherer lifestyle

    https://www.wayanad.com/pages/tribes-in-wayanad

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    How do you distinguish "Hunter Gatherer" forms of worship from other forms?
    "Black magic" and ancestor worship are quite vague and aren't restricted to Hunter Gatherer societies to my knowledge. The question can then be put forth as to whether this is the retention of "Hunter Gatherer religion" or new innovation. I assume those leading a HG lifestyle would naturally gravitate towards certain forms of animism - so these could be religious innovations of a deurbanised group that has taken to this sort of lifestyle.

    I remember a post by another member suggesting that South Indian/Dravidian speaking Brahmins are 'Sanskritised Indus Upper Castes'. While that is one way to look at it, it does not correctly reflect their ethnic identity in my opinion. Likewise in this case, while it is certain that (at least some of) these tribals have excess ancestry from a Hunter Gathering population when compared to their neighbours we don't know what their ethnic identity is from.
    Are they Dravidianized HGs or HGized Dravidians? or neither?

    You should read Castes and Tribes of Southern India, by Edgar Thurston.
     
    Wholly uneducated and associating with no other tribes, the Paniyans have only very crude ideas of religion. Believing in devils of all sorts and sizes, and professing to worship the Hindu divinities, they reverence especially the god of the jungles, Kād Bhagavadi, or, according to another version, a deity called Kūli, a malignant and terrible being of neither sex, whose shrines take the form of a stone placed under a tree, or sometimes a cairn of stones. At their rude shrines they contribute as offerings to the swāmi (god) rice boiled in the husk, roasted and pounded, half-a-cocoanut, and small coins. The banyan and a lofty tree, apparently of [63]the fig tribe, are reverenced by them, inasmuch as evil spirits are reputed to haunt them at times. Trees so haunted must not be touched, and, if the Paniyans attempt to cut them, they fall sick.

    Some Paniyans are believed to be gifted with the power of changing themselves into animals;
    ....
    The Paniyans “worship animistic deities, of which the chief is Kūli, whom they worship on a raised platform called Kulitara, offering cocoanuts, but no blood.”46 They further worship Kāttu Bhagavati, or Bhagavati of the woods. “Shrines in her honour are to be found at most centres of the caste, and contain no image, but a box in which are kept the clothing and jewels presented to her by the devout. An annual ceremony lasting a week is held in her honour, at which the Komāran and [70]a kind of priest, called Nolambukāran, take the chief parts. The former dresses in the goddess’ clothing, and the divine afflatus descends upon him, and he prophesies both good and evil.”


    Kādu.—Kādu or Kāttu, meaning wild or jungle, has been recorded as a division of Golla, Irula, Korava, Kurumba, and Tōttiyan. Kādu also occurs as an exogamous sept or gōtra of the Kurnis. Kādu Konkani is stated, in the Madras Census Report, 1901, to mean the bastard Konkanis, as opposed to the Gōd or pure Konkanis. Kāttu Marāthi is a synonym for the bird-catching Kuruvikarans. In the Malabar Wynaad, the jungle Kurumbas are known as Kāttu Nāyakan.
    ..
    Kurumba or Kuruman.—As bearing on the disputed question of the connection between the Kurumbas who dwell in the jungle, and the Kurubas (shepherds [156]and weavers) who live in the plains and open country, I may quote the evidence of various witnesses:—
    Madras Census Report, 1891.—“The Kurumbas or Kurrubas are the modern representatives of the ancient Kurumbas or Pallavas, who were once so powerful throughout Southern India, but very little trace of their greatness now remains. In the seventh century, the power of the Pallava kings seems to have been at its zenith; but, shortly after this, the Kongu, Chōla, and Chālūkya chiefs succeeded in winning several victories over them. The final overthrow of the Kurumba sovereignty was effected by the Chōla king Adondai about the seventh or eighth century A.D., and the Kurumbas were scattered far and wide. Many fled to the hills, and in the Nīlgiris and the Wynād, in Coorg and Mysore, representatives of this ancient race are now found as wild and uncivilised tribes. Elsewhere the Kurumbas are more advanced, and are usually shepherds, and weavers of coarse woollen blankets.”

    “Kuruman.—This caste is found in the Nīlgiris and the Wynād, with a slight sprinkling in the Nilambūr and Attapādi hills in Malabar. Their principal occupations are wood-cutting, and the collection of forest produce. The name is merely another form of Kurumban, but, as they differ from the ordinary Kurumbas, it seemed better to show them separately. I think, however, that they were originally identical with the shepherd Kurumbans, and their present separation is merely the result of their isolation in the fastnesses of the Western Ghāts, to which their ancestors fled, or gradually retreated after the downfall of the Kurumba dynasty. The name Kurumbranād, a sub-division of Malabar, still bears testimony to their once powerful position.”
    Last edited by client; 01-18-2020 at 04:38 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by discreetmaverick View Post
    They still retain some of hunter-gatherers forms of worship

    These are some of the tribals living in Wayanad.
    Paniyas, Adiyas, Kattunayakans, Kurichiyans,Kurumas,Ooralis, Uraali Kurumas etc.

    Paniyas

    They also worship Banyan tree. They hesitate to cut such trees and if anyone attempts to cut such trees, they fall sick.

    THE KATTUNAYAKAN

    They worship animals, birds, trees, rock hillocks and snakes. They are firm believers in black magic and sorcery. They also worship their ancestors

    Though paniyas work as agricultural laborers their subject Kattupaniyar, inhabits the forest region of Nilambur in the Malappuram District. Here, members lead a traditional hunter-gatherer lifestyle

    https://www.wayanad.com/pages/tribes-in-wayanad
    Bishnois of Haryana also worship trees. Interesting to see similar patterns across racial and geographical divide

  19. The Following User Says Thank You to gildesh For This Useful Post:

     discreetmaverick (01-18-2020)

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