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Thread: Does SE England have more Germanic influence than the rest of England?

  1. #1

    Does SE England have more Germanic influence than the rest of England?

    I noticed that on my GEDMatch Eurogenes K13, my primary population in the Oracle is 75-80% Southeast English. My European heritage is primarily English, Scottish, Irish and south German, so I’m assuming that when averaged out the principal components lie somewhere around southeast England. I’ve been reading about Germanic and French invasions of southeast England, which would explain why many Brits have French-sounding surnames. I noticed that “Southeast English” seemed to be more continental-European shifted than the rest of England on the K13 spreadsheet, so would this be due to those invasions in the Middle Ages?

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  3. #2
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    Yes. Anglo-Saxons, Norsemen, Normans, Flemings, Dutch, Huguenots, etc

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    Actually as an extra comment, I would imagine that Eastern England has more Germanic ancestry. Pretty sure that was covered in POBI and other papers.

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  7. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    Actually as an extra comment, I would imagine that Eastern England has more Germanic ancestry. Pretty sure that was covered in POBI and other papers.
    Where can I find the link to the research?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chocoholic View Post
    Where can I find the link to the research?
    Hi chocoholic... the best place to start is the People of the British Isles Project homepage here: https://www.peopleofthebritishisles.org

    On there, you'll find both summaries of the research and links to the journal articles too. Two articles that you should read in particular, if you're interested in the genetics of the British Isles especially, are 'The fine-scale genetic structure of the British Population' and 'The Irish DNA Atlas'. Links to both articles are given under the Publications tab.

    As you state that you have Scottish and Irish heritage, in addition to SE English heritage, two additional studies that have focussed on these countries but which are not linked on the POBI website are:

    - Insular Celtic population structure and genomic footprints of migration: https://journals.plos.org/plosgeneti...l.pgen.1007152

    - The genetic landscape of Scotland and the Isles: https://www.pnas.org/content/116/38/19064

    These are all good places to start if you're looking for academic research on the areas in question :-)

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  10. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Cunobelinus_T View Post
    Hi chocoholic... the best place to start is the People of the British Isles Project homepage here: https://www.peopleofthebritishisles.org

    On there, you'll find both summaries of the research and links to the journal articles too. Two articles that you should read in particular, if you're interested in the genetics of the British Isles especially, are 'The fine-scale genetic structure of the British Population' and 'The Irish DNA Atlas'. Links to both articles are given under the Publications tab.

    As you state that you have Scottish and Irish heritage, in addition to SE English heritage, two additional studies that have focussed on these countries but which are not linked on the POBI website are:

    - Insular Celtic population structure and genomic footprints of migration: https://journals.plos.org/plosgeneti...l.pgen.1007152

    - The genetic landscape of Scotland and the Isles: https://www.pnas.org/content/116/38/19064

    These are all good places to start if you're looking for academic research on the areas in question :-)
    Thank you so much!!! It definitely makes sense that my 80% west European would be averaged out in southeast England, especially considering on the Eurogenes K13 spreadsheet, you can tell that the southeast England sample has more Germanic influence.

    This is an oracle of a southeast English man that I found, which is logical considering what the research says about Anglo-Saxon influence in different parts of England. Notice he’s significantly closer to Germanic populations than Irish or Scottish.

    1 South_Dutch 3.89
    2 Southeast_English 4.35
    3 West_German 5.22
    4 Southwest_English 6.24
    5 Orcadian 6.97
    6 French 7.63
    7 North_Dutch 7.76
    8 Danish 7.95
    9 North_German 8.17
    10 Irish 8.22

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    I think you can see it in the distribution of R1b-U106 in Britain versus the distribution of R1b-L21 there.

    R1b-L21 Celtic vs R1b-U106 Germanic_British Isles and Ireland.jpg

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    I think you can see it in the distribution of R1b-U106 in Britain versus the distribution of R1b-L21 there.

    R1b-L21 Celtic vs R1b-U106 Germanic_British Isles and Ireland.jpg

    Note the differences in percentages represented by the different shading for each map.

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  16. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    I think you can see it in the distribution of R1b-U106 in Britain versus the distribution of R1b-L21 there.

    R1b-L21 Celtic vs R1b-U106 Germanic_British Isles and Ireland.jpg

    Note the differences in percentages represented by the different shading for each map.
    Thank you; this is awesome! It’s interesting how British people can vary so much.

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    Correlation values

    1 Orkney 0,97895
    2 Northern Ireland 0,97818
    3 Scotland 0,97814
    4 Iceland 0,97221
    5 Ireland 0,97081
    6 England_North-East 0,97073
    7 Wales 0,97002
    8 NL_Utrecht 0,96933
    9 NL_Groningen 0,96906
    10 Norway_west 0,96555

    11 West-Midlands 0,96507
    12 East_Anglia 0,9642
    13 England_North-West 0,96381
    14 Yorkshire&Humber 0,96331
    15 England_South-West 0,96172
    16 England_South-East 0,9617
    17 East-Midlands 0,95955
    18 West_Scottish 0,95878
    19 DE Niedersachsen 0,9585
    20 Norway_south-east 0,95408
    21 Shetlands 0,95387

    Red = non British populations above SE England .

    LDNArange for SE England is 5.1 to 10% . I am not aware of any ancestry from there .
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