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Thread: The origin of the mysterious R1a2a YP4141 > YP5018

  1. #11
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    The split time is more relevant here.
    J1 FGC5987 to FGC6175 (188 new SNPs)
    MDKAs before Colonial Brazil
    Y-DNA - Milhazes, Barcelos, Minho, Portugal.
    mtDNA - Ilha Terceira, Azores, Portugal
    North_Swedish + PT + PT + PT @ 3.96 EUtest 4

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCO View Post
    The split time is more relevant here.
    Only in your dreams.

    Modern variation isn't relevant at all.

  4. #13
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    Just like in any other haplogroup since A00. Cladistics. Phylogenetic systematics.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monito_del_monte
    J1 FGC5987 to FGC6175 (188 new SNPs)
    MDKAs before Colonial Brazil
    Y-DNA - Milhazes, Barcelos, Minho, Portugal.
    mtDNA - Ilha Terceira, Azores, Portugal
    North_Swedish + PT + PT + PT @ 3.96 EUtest 4

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  6. #14
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    Zaza / Laz / Turk / Kurd
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    R-YP5018 > R-Y62718
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    U3b2a1

    Lazistan AchaemenidEmpire1 Kurdistan Kingdom Ayyubid Dynasty Kurdistan Turkey
    There are two archaeological samples of R1a-YP4141 that I know of. One is a medieval sample from Poznań, Poland and another Bronze Age Eastern "Kazakh" sample from Aktogay (1618-1513 calBCE) which was R1a-YP4141 and positive to some SNPs on the YP4132 level. How do you think these are connected with the modern samples coming out of Kuwait, Iran and India? Back migration from Europe?

  7. #15
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    What are the references and sources ? You can find R1a-YP4141 in the United States and it doesn't change anything because they don't have ancient diversity and ancient different/organized clusters. YP4141 is quite different in terms of origins, matches, bifurcations. Only in Northern Middle East and in Ancient Iranian peoples we can find 12 ybp splits like YP5018/YP4132. Eastern European R1a is local, derived, recent and they have always been there because they are very young, just like R1b in Ireland or J1 in Arabia, they are not basal.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basal_(phylogenetics)
    J1 FGC5987 to FGC6175 (188 new SNPs)
    MDKAs before Colonial Brazil
    Y-DNA - Milhazes, Barcelos, Minho, Portugal.
    mtDNA - Ilha Terceira, Azores, Portugal
    North_Swedish + PT + PT + PT @ 3.96 EUtest 4

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  9. #16
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    Lazistan AchaemenidEmpire1 Kurdistan Kingdom Ayyubid Dynasty Kurdistan Turkey
    I searched, but couldn't find any direct sources for those two samples. Unfortunately, all that I could find were second-hand references to them in google searches.

  10. #17
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    H28/W(M) : H1b5
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    Like Generalissimo said modern samples and frequencies of this clade are irrelevant and don't say anything coherent and conclusive about the origin of this clade.

    Ancient dna is only relevant here and R1a was in the Neolithic pretty much restricted to North Eurasia and probably only the western part of it. So any R1a clades even the basal ones arrived later either with Indo-Iranians or other IEs or IE influenced people (Turks,..)
    Last edited by Coldmountains; 02-09-2020 at 10:32 AM.

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  12. #18
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    Lazistan AchaemenidEmpire1 Kurdistan Kingdom Ayyubid Dynasty Kurdistan Turkey
    Is there anyone on here who can assist me to figure out how these samples relate to one another? I.e if there is one Basal sample that split off first. Is it even possible with the information below?
    Just by looking at the numbers, I can roughly see that the two Turkey samples and the Yemeni sample are the closest to each other and form their own cluster. The Chechen 1 sample is the most distant from all other samples and Qatar seems to be somewhat evenly distant to all the others and Georgia looks like it might have some type of relationship with Qatar, but I am not sure how.

    If there are any mathematical geniuses on here, I would greatly appreciate your assistance in shedding some light on how this subclade moved around and evolved. Thanks!

    Turkey 1 13 23 15 11 12-12 12 12 12 13 13 31 17 9-9 11 12 26 15 19 29 12-12-13-17 11 10 19-23 15 16 18 17 34-38 12 11 9 8 15-16 8 11 10 8 11 11 12 22-22 14 10 12 12 14 8 12 23 21 14 12 12 13 11 11 12 12 35 15 9 14 12 27 24 19 12 12 12 13 10 9 12 11 10 11 11 30 13 12 24 13 11 9 18 15 18 15 25 15 12 15 27 12 23 18 10 15 18 9 11 11
    Turkey 2 13 23 15 11 12-12 12 12 12 13 13 32 18 9-9 11 12 26 15 19 29 12-12-16-17 11 10 19-23 15 16 20 17 35-38 12 11 9 8 15-16 8 11 10 8 11 11 12 22-22 14 10 12 12 14 8 12 23 21 14 12 12 13 11 11 12 12 35 15 9 14 12 26 24 19 12 12 12 13 10 9 12 11 10 11 11 30 13 12 24 13 11 9 18 15 18 15 25 15 12 15 27 12 23 18 10 15 18 9 11 11
    Yemen 13 23 15 11 12-12 12 12 12 13 13 31 17 9-9 11 12 26 15 19 29 12-12-16-17 11 10 19-23 15 17 18 17 34-38 12 11 9 8 15-16 8 11 10 8 11 11 12 22-22 14 10 12 12 14 8 12 23 21 14 12 12 13 11 11 12 12 34 15 9 14 12 27 24 19 12 12 12 12 10 9 12 11 10 11 11 30 13 13 24 13 11 9 18 15 18 15 25 15 12 15 25 12 23 18 10 15 18 9 12 11
    Qatar 13 23 17 11 12-12 12 12 12 13 13 30 16 9-9 11 12 26 15 19 32 12-12-16-17 11 11 19-23 15 17 19 16 34-37 12 11 9 8 15-16 8 11 10 8 10 11 12 22-22 14 10 12 12 14 8 12 23 21 14 12 12 13 11 11 12 12 35 15 9 14 12 27 24 19 12 12 12 13 10 9 12 11 10 11 11 30 12 13 24 13 11 9 18 15 17 15 26 15 12 15 25 12 23 18 10 15 17 9 11 11
    Georgia 2 13 24 15 11 12-12 12 12 12 13 13 31 17 9-9 11 12 25 15 0 31 12-12-16-16 11 11 19-23 15 17 18 18 35-38 12 11 9 8 15-16 8 11 10 8 11 11 12 22-22 14 10 12 12 14 8 12 23 21 15 12 12 13 11 12 12 13 34 15 9 14 12 26 24 19 12 12 12 13 10 9 12 11 10 11 11 30 13 14 24 13 11 9 18 15 19 16 26 15 12 15 26 12 23 18 10 15 17 9 11 11
    Chechen 1 13 23 15 10 12-12 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9-9 11 12 25 15 19 29 12-13-16-18 11 11 19-23 15 15 18 15 36-36 12 11 9 8 15-16 8 10 10 8 11 11 12 21-22 15 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 21 14 12 12 13 11 11 12 12 37 15 9 14 12 26 24 19 12 12 12 13 10 9 12 11 10 11 11 30 12 13 23 13 11 9 17 15 17 15 25 15 12 15 25 12 23 18 11 15 17 9 12 11

    Capture.JPG
    Last edited by TheAnatolian; 02-10-2020 at 05:59 AM.

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  14. #19
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    They need (NGS, NextGenSeq) just like Big Y or other. Scientific facts are archaeological results and NGS clusters, just like Mesolithic J1 in Karelia https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....unter-Gatherer and a modern cluster in Finland https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-F2306/
    No ancient R1a-YP4141 cluster has ever been found in Eastern Europe, so they only have wishful thinking pretending to be ancient there without any scientific facts.
    J1 FGC5987 to FGC6175 (188 new SNPs)
    MDKAs before Colonial Brazil
    Y-DNA - Milhazes, Barcelos, Minho, Portugal.
    mtDNA - Ilha Terceira, Azores, Portugal
    North_Swedish + PT + PT + PT @ 3.96 EUtest 4

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  16. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCO View Post
    They need (NGS, NextGenSeq) just like Big Y or other. Scientific facts are archaeological results and NGS clusters, just like Mesolithic J1 in Karelia https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....unter-Gatherer and a modern cluster in Finland https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-F2306/
    No ancient R1a-YP4141 cluster has ever been found in Eastern Europe, so they only have wishful thinking pretending to be ancient there without any scientific facts.
    There's loads of ancient R1a from Eastern Europe, but no ancient R1a from the Middle East.

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