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Thread: do somalis have any iranian neolithic ancestry?

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by drobbah View Post
    So do Somalis have more Barcin ancestry than the pastoralists?
    The Pastoralists have more Anatolia_N affinity but most of that seems to Levantine in origin since they are also have proportionally higher Iberomaurusian.

    Most modern Horners (at least the Semitic and East Cushitic speakers)) seem to have more CHG/Iran_N and Dinka ancestry.
    Last edited by Mnemonics; 04-11-2021 at 02:55 AM.

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  3. #102
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    I think the increased Sudanese ancestry entered the Horn from the South or West (Gambela,Anuak regions) creating IA Kenyan-like populations or Elementein populations.The Arabian-like ancestry in the Horn is more trickier as we know the South Semites that ultimately became the Ethio-Semites (J-P56 carriers) definitely arrived in large numbers with them but I don't think Ethio-Semitic type of Arabian ancestry was introduced to the Somaloid peoples (Somalis,Rendille,Maay etc) as we lack J-P56 (relatively low to non-existent Mota) and the only Ethio-Semitic loanwords in Northern Somali are from Harari/related languages & Ge'ez (historical era influueces from both medieval & antiquity).The Arabian in Oromos is probably mostly of Ethio-Semitic origin and diffused south into central & southern Ethiopia (homelands of the Oromos) from Eritrea/Tigray region.

    We do know that 3-4k years ago camels were domesticated in SE Arabia and managed to arrive in the Eastern Horn with camel pastoralism related terms that were from Yemen but I did find this quote interesting:
    East Cushitic *gaala
    ‘camel’ is from Semitic *gamal- ‘id.’ and the most likely intermediary has
    been a language spoken in Southern Arabia when camels were introduced
    to the eastern Horn ca. 2000 years ago, as argued in Banti (2000: 49 f.).
    Gml ‘camel’ is well attested in Sabaic. However, the loss of -m- is not regular
    in ASA, nor in NS o
    r any known East Cushitic language, and points to a
    different language: loss of -m- between vowels occurs several times in
    Southern Ethiosemitic and in MSA. (Modern South Arabian like Mehri/Soqotri)
    As of right now the lone uploaded Somali J-P58 sample has a tmrca with a northern yemeni and a Hadhraami Yemeni with a tmrca between 3100 to 1950 ybp.There's still a high chance that these J-P58 Somalis are just recent medieval Mehri as the Futuh Al Habasha mentioned 2000 men from Al Mahra fought in the late stages of the war and this is equivalent manpower to individual Somali clans like my Habar Magaadle (vast majority of modern Isaaqs) which only brought 2200 men to the side of the Imam.

    Rendille
     
    Target: Rendille:T_Rendille-2.DG
    Distance: 1.9612% / 0.01961235
    67.6 KEN_Pastoral_N
    24.0 SUDANESE7
    8.2 Saudi
    0.2 ANA_(simulated)

    Target: Rendille:T_Rendille-1.DG
    Distance: 2.2859% / 0.02285871
    76.4 KEN_Pastoral_N
    17.6 SUDANESE7
    5.6 Saudi
    0.4 ANA_(simulated)



    Oromos & Somalis
     
    Target: Borana_Oromo:OROMO16
    Distance: 2.9049% / 0.02904864
    70.2 KEN_Pastoral_N
    19.8 SUDANESE7
    9.4 Saudi
    0.6 ANA_(simulated)

    Target: Ethio_Semitic_Oromo:OROMO15
    Distance: 2.2026% / 0.02202641
    56.4 KEN_Pastoral_N
    24.6 Saudi
    19.0 SUDANESE7


    Target: Somali_Kenya
    Distance: 1.3219% / 0.01321863
    75.2 KEN_Pastoral_N
    15.8 SUDANESE7
    8.4 Saudi
    0.6 ANA_(simulated)

    Target: Somali
    Distance: 1.5583% / 0.01558302
    77.6 KEN_Pastoral_N
    11.4 SUDANESE7
    10.0 Saudi
    1.0 ANA_(simulated)



    Eritreans & Agaws
     

    Target: Eritrean:Eritrean_1
    Distance: 1.8980% / 0.01897982
    70.8 KEN_Pastoral_N
    24.6 Saudi
    4.2 SUDANESE7
    0.4 ANA_(simulated)

    Target: Eritrean:Eritrean_2
    Distance: 2.3846% / 0.02384585
    65.0 KEN_Pastoral_N
    35.0 Saudi

    Target: Eritrean:Eritrean_3
    Distance: 2.8131% / 0.02813073
    67.8 KEN_Pastoral_N
    27.8 Saudi
    3.0 SUDANESE7
    1.4 ANA_(simulated)

    Target: Ethiopian_Agaw:T_Agaw-2.DG
    Distance: 1.5937% / 0.01593688
    73.2 KEN_Pastoral_N
    24.4 Saudi
    2.0 SUDANESE7
    0.4 ANA_(simulated)

    Target: Ethiopian_Agaw:T_Agaw-1.DG
    Distance: 2.0898% / 0.02089755
    78.2 KEN_Pastoral_N
    21.4 Saudi
    0.4 ANA_(simulated)

    Target: Drobbah_scaled
    Distance: 2.8833% / 0.02883253
    93.8 Somali
    6.2 Yemenite_Dhamar

    Target: Mother_scaled
    Distance: 2.7252% / 0.02725184
    91.8 Somali
    8.2 Yemenite_Dhamar

    FTDNA myorigins 3.0:
    Eritrea, Northern Ethiopia & Somalia
    94%
    Yemenite Jewish
    6%

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  5. #103
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    It seems like the Tanzania_N/IA samples have minor Iran_N/CHG and with the IA samples having about twice that of PN samples.

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  7. #104
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    We really need pastoral neolithic cushitic samples from the Horn or from Sudan.

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  9. #105
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    Bedouin Arab LT related variant in modern Horners + Northern Sudanese to the exclusion of SE Africans.Perhaps related to the introduction of camels in Somaloid camel herding speaking groups & Afars? And obviously the medieval Bedouin Arabian migration to Sudan.

    Finally, the recent migration of non-Africans into Africa is argued to have contributed to the gene-pool of eastern African populations. In particular, studies have suggested that the derived G−13915 allele—found mainly in populations from the Arabian Peninsula, Sudan, Kenya, and the Horn o f Africa (5)—arose in the Arabian Peninsula ~4100 ya and was brought to eastern Africa by migrating Arabic-speaking herders >1300 ya
    Possible indigenous Horner (North + East Cushitic) LT variant
    In addition, the G−13907 allele is found mainly in Afroasiatic-speakers from northern Sudan, northern Kenya and Ethiopia (1,3,5,6,10) but is absent in southern Cushitic-speakers from Tanzania. Although it has been speculated that G−13907 allele arose in eastern Cushitic-speakers from Ethiopia (5,91), the geographic origin of this mutation remains unclear

    PN samples and modern SE Africans probably carried another LT variant
    Given the high frequency of the C−14010 allele in Tanzanian populations and its virtual absence in southern Sudanese Nilo-Saharan-speakers (5,6), it has been argued that the C−14010 mutation likely arose first in Afroasiatic Cushitic-speaking populations and then was introduced into Nilo-Saharan Nilotic-speakers through admixture. However, regardless of population origin, it is thought that the C−14010 allele spread rapidly throughout East Africa together with the cultural practice of herding consistent with a demic diffusion model.Archaeological data also suggested that a more specialized reliance on milk arose in herding communities throughout southern Kenya and northern Tanzania after 3300 ya (108)
    Target: Drobbah_scaled
    Distance: 2.8833% / 0.02883253
    93.8 Somali
    6.2 Yemenite_Dhamar

    Target: Mother_scaled
    Distance: 2.7252% / 0.02725184
    91.8 Somali
    8.2 Yemenite_Dhamar

    FTDNA myorigins 3.0:
    Eritrea, Northern Ethiopia & Somalia
    94%
    Yemenite Jewish
    6%

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  11. #106
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    Recently I have being going through the Mehri/MSA dictionary in an attempt to found MSA related words in Northern Somali that aren't clearly of Arabic origin.Found a couple words already like bakawra (bakoorad) or xallay which is Somali for xalay (night) with some other pastoralist related words that I'm less sure of...

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