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Thread: do somalis have any iranian neolithic ancestry?

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by afbarwaaqo View Post
    could there be additional iran_n ancestry hidden when natufian is used? natufian gets 15% iran_n on this model
    That's quite unlikely considering Iran N and Natufian are very differentiated ancestries.

    Quote Originally Posted by afbarwaaqo View Post
    can you post how natufian is modeled on qpadm?
    As Gentica said, there are some models in Lazaridis et al. official paper. Since you are interested, here are some models I did by myself:
    right = c('Mbuti.HO', 'Ami.HO', 'Mixe.HO', 'Russia_Kostenki14', 'Russia_Samara_HG', 'Italy_North_Villabruna_HG')
    Code:
    > results$weights
    # A tibble: 2 x 5
      target          left                   weight     se     z
      <chr>           <chr>                   <dbl>  <dbl> <dbl>
    1 Levant_Natufian Turkey_Epipaleolithic   0.678 0.0445 15.2 
    2 Levant_Natufian Morocco_Iberomaurusian  0.322 0.0445  7.24
    > 
    > results$popdrop 
    # A tibble: 3 x 13
      pat      wt   dof  chisq        p f4rank Turkey_Epipaleolithic Morocco_Iberomaurusian feasible best  dofdiff chisqdiff p_nested
      <chr> <dbl> <dbl>  <dbl>    <dbl>  <dbl>                 <dbl>                  <dbl> <lgl>    <lgl>   <dbl>     <dbl>    <dbl>
    1 00        0     4   1.40 8.44e- 1      1                 0.678                  0.322 TRUE     NA         NA       NA        NA
    2 01        1     5  53.5  2.66e-10      0                 1                     NA     TRUE     TRUE        0     -261.        1
    3 10        1     5 315.   6.17e-66      0                NA                      1     TRUE     TRUE       NA       NA        NA
    >
    Keep in mind Pinarbasi HG is WHG-admixed so it's not the best proxy indeed. Here's another model using a variety of Neolithic Anatolians (excepting Boncuklu N):
    Code:
    > results$weights
    # A tibble: 2 x 5
      target          left                   weight     se     z
      <chr>           <chr>                   <dbl>  <dbl> <dbl>
    1 Levant_Natufian Turkey_N                0.709 0.0362 19.6 
    2 Levant_Natufian Morocco_Iberomaurusian  0.291 0.0362  8.03
    > 
    > results$popdrop 
    # A tibble: 3 x 13
      pat      wt   dof  chisq        p f4rank Turkey_N Morocco_Iberomaurusian feasible best  dofdiff chisqdiff p_nested
      <chr> <dbl> <dbl>  <dbl>    <dbl>  <dbl>    <dbl>                  <dbl> <lgl>    <lgl>   <dbl>     <dbl>    <dbl>
    1 00        0     4   2.31 6.79e- 1      1    0.709                  0.291 TRUE     NA         NA       NA        NA
    2 01        1     5 122.   1.27e-24      0    1                     NA     TRUE     TRUE        0     -300.        1
    3 10        1     5 422.   5.78e-89      0   NA                      1     TRUE     TRUE       NA       NA        NA
    Last edited by Qrts; 11-27-2022 at 04:06 PM.

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  3. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freb View Post
    Anatolian like? Aren't they about 50% Basal Eurasian and 50% "Unknown Hunter Gatherer"?
    That's the old model. With the new model he claims they are mostly Anatolian like with deeper ancestry he never directly states it's ibm
    Target: _Arab
    Distance: 1.5938% / 0.01593837 | R3P
    57.6 TUN_Kerkouane_IA
    32.4 Levant_Baqah_BA
    10.0 COG_Kindoki_230BP

    Itrane model

    Target: _Arab
    Distance: 1.2836% / 0.01283568
    60.0 Berber
    11.2 Sub_saharan
    10.8 Levantine
    10.4 Arabian
    7.6 Egyptian

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  5. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qrts View Post
    That's quite unlikely considering Iran N and Natufian are very differentiated ancestries.


    As Gentica said, there are some models in Lazaridis et al. official paper. Since you are interested, here are some models I did by myself:

    Code:
    > results$weights
    # A tibble: 2 x 5
      target          left                   weight     se     z
      <chr>           <chr>                   <dbl>  <dbl> <dbl>
    1 Levant_Natufian Turkey_Epipaleolithic   0.678 0.0445 15.2 
    2 Levant_Natufian Morocco_Iberomaurusian  0.322 0.0445  7.24
    > 
    > results$popdrop 
    # A tibble: 3 x 13
      pat      wt   dof  chisq        p f4rank Turkey_Epipaleolithic Morocco_Iberomaurusian feasible best  dofdiff chisqdiff p_nested
      <chr> <dbl> <dbl>  <dbl>    <dbl>  <dbl>                 <dbl>                  <dbl> <lgl>    <lgl>   <dbl>     <dbl>    <dbl>
    1 00        0     4   1.40 8.44e- 1      1                 0.678                  0.322 TRUE     NA         NA       NA        NA
    2 01        1     5  53.5  2.66e-10      0                 1                     NA     TRUE     TRUE        0     -261.        1
    3 10        1     5 315.   6.17e-66      0                NA                      1     TRUE     TRUE       NA       NA        NA
    >
    Keep in mind Pinarbasi HG is WHG-admixed so it's not the best proxy indeed. Here's another model using a variety of Neolithic Anatolians (excepting Boncuklu N):
    Code:
    > results$weights
    # A tibble: 2 x 5
      target          left                   weight     se     z
      <chr>           <chr>                   <dbl>  <dbl> <dbl>
    1 Levant_Natufian Turkey_N                0.709 0.0362 19.6 
    2 Levant_Natufian Morocco_Iberomaurusian  0.291 0.0362  8.03
    > 
    > results$popdrop 
    # A tibble: 3 x 13
      pat      wt   dof  chisq        p f4rank Turkey_N Morocco_Iberomaurusian feasible best  dofdiff chisqdiff p_nested
      <chr> <dbl> <dbl>  <dbl>    <dbl>  <dbl>    <dbl>                  <dbl> <lgl>    <lgl>   <dbl>     <dbl>    <dbl>
    1 00        0     4   2.31 6.79e- 1      1    0.709                  0.291 TRUE     NA         NA       NA        NA
    2 01        1     5 122.   1.27e-24      0    1                     NA     TRUE     TRUE        0     -300.        1
    3 10        1     5 422.   5.78e-89      0   NA                      1     TRUE     TRUE       NA       NA        NA
    That percentage of ibm ancestry is more then enough to drift them from Anatolians
    Target: _Arab
    Distance: 1.5938% / 0.01593837 | R3P
    57.6 TUN_Kerkouane_IA
    32.4 Levant_Baqah_BA
    10.0 COG_Kindoki_230BP

    Itrane model

    Target: _Arab
    Distance: 1.2836% / 0.01283568
    60.0 Berber
    11.2 Sub_saharan
    10.8 Levantine
    10.4 Arabian
    7.6 Egyptian

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  7. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gentica277282 View Post
    That percentage of ibm ancestry is more then enough to drift them from Anatolians
    Yes indeed that's the most reasonable explanation.

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  9. #165
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    aDNA Match (1st)
    KEN_Pastoral_N_Elmenteitan:I8805
    aDNA Match (2nd)
    KEN_Pastoral_N_Elmenteitan:I8922
    aDNA Match (3rd)
    KEN_Pastoral_N:I8918
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-V32>E-FT385910
    mtDNA (M)
    L0a1d1*
    Y-DNA (M)
    T-FGC92488
    mtDNA (P)
    L3d1a1

    Somaliland Yemen Ethiopia
    Iran_N & Arabain ancestry levels increase when using those new Natufian samples


    Code:
    Target: Drobbah_FTDNA_scaled
    Distance: 4.4134% / 0.04413421
    55.2	Sudanese:SUDANESE7
    28.2	ISR_Natufian_EpiP:I1072
    12.8	Saudi
    3.8	Iberomaurusian
    
    Target: Somali_Somalia
    Distance: 4.3350% / 0.04335015
    55.2	Sudanese:SUDANESE7
    30.0	ISR_Natufian_EpiP:I1072
    13.0	Saudi
    1.8	Iberomaurusian


    Code:
    Target: Somali_Somalia
    Distance: 4.3867% / 0.04386669
    55.4	Sudanese:SUDANESE7
    40.6	ISR_Natufian_EpiP:I1072
    3.8	Iran_N
    0.2	Morocco_UP_Taforalt_(Iberomaurusian)
    
    Target: Drobbah_FTDNA_scaled
    Distance: 4.4136% / 0.04413578
    55.4	Sudanese:SUDANESE7
    38.2	ISR_Natufian_EpiP:I1072
    4.2	Iran_N
    2.2	Morocco_UP_Taforalt_(Iberomaurusian)
    Code:
    Target: Drobbah
    Distance: 1.3922% / 0.01392203
    53.4	KEN_Pastoral_N
    34.6	KEN_Pastoral_IA
    7.4	Saudi
    4.6	Taforalt
    
    
    Target: Drobbah_FTDNA_scaled
    Distance: 2.8058% / 0.02805777
    94.8	South/Central_Somali
    5.2	Saudi

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  11. #166
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    aDNA Match (1st)
    KEN_Pastoral_N_Elmenteitan:I8805
    aDNA Match (2nd)
    KEN_Pastoral_N_Elmenteitan:I8922
    aDNA Match (3rd)
    KEN_Pastoral_N:I8918
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-V32>E-FT385910
    mtDNA (M)
    L0a1d1*
    Y-DNA (M)
    T-FGC92488
    mtDNA (P)
    L3d1a1

    Somaliland Yemen Ethiopia
    KEN_IA + New Natufian or Saudi:

    Code:
    Target: Somali_Somalia
    Distance: 3.2277% / 0.03227699
    76.0	Kenya_Pastoral_IA
    24.0	ISR_Natufian_EpiP:I1072
    
    Target: Drobbah_FTDNA_scaled
    Distance: 3.3760% / 0.03376016
    76.8	Kenya_Pastoral_IA
    23.2	ISR_Natufian_EpiP:I1072


    Code:
    Target: Drobbah_FTDNA_scaled
    Distance: 3.8008% / 0.03800814
    77.2	Kenya_Pastoral_IA
    22.8	Saudi
    
    Target: Somali_Somalia
    Distance: 3.5437% / 0.03543693
    76.2	Kenya_Pastoral_IA
    23.8	Saudi

    With Both Natufian & Arabians included:
    Code:
    Target: Drobbah_FTDNA_scaled
    Distance: 3.2087% / 0.03208708
    76.6	Kenya_Pastoral_IA
    15.4	ISR_Natufian_EpiP:I1072
    8.0	Saudi
    
    Target: Somali_Somalia
    Distance: 2.9663% / 0.02966333
    75.6	Kenya_Pastoral_IA
    14.8	ISR_Natufian_EpiP:I1072
    9.6	Saudi
    Code:
    Target: Drobbah
    Distance: 1.3922% / 0.01392203
    53.4	KEN_Pastoral_N
    34.6	KEN_Pastoral_IA
    7.4	Saudi
    4.6	Taforalt
    
    
    Target: Drobbah_FTDNA_scaled
    Distance: 2.8058% / 0.02805777
    94.8	South/Central_Somali
    5.2	Saudi

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  13. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by drobbah View Post
    KEN_IA + New Natufian or Saudi:

    Code:
    Target: Somali_Somalia
    Distance: 3.2277% / 0.03227699
    76.0	Kenya_Pastoral_IA
    24.0	ISR_Natufian_EpiP:I1072
    
    Target: Drobbah_FTDNA_scaled
    Distance: 3.3760% / 0.03376016
    76.8	Kenya_Pastoral_IA
    23.2	ISR_Natufian_EpiP:I1072


    Code:
    Target: Drobbah_FTDNA_scaled
    Distance: 3.8008% / 0.03800814
    77.2	Kenya_Pastoral_IA
    22.8	Saudi
    
    Target: Somali_Somalia
    Distance: 3.5437% / 0.03543693
    76.2	Kenya_Pastoral_IA
    23.8	Saudi

    With Both Natufian & Arabians included:
    Code:
    Target: Drobbah_FTDNA_scaled
    Distance: 3.2087% / 0.03208708
    76.6	Kenya_Pastoral_IA
    15.4	ISR_Natufian_EpiP:I1072
    8.0	Saudi
    
    Target: Somali_Somalia
    Distance: 2.9663% / 0.02966333
    75.6	Kenya_Pastoral_IA
    14.8	ISR_Natufian_EpiP:I1072
    9.6	Saudi
    I thought Kenyan pastoralist were already harbouring large amounts of Natufian like ancestry. Why does the calculator show a separate additional Natufian? Wouldn’t the Somali ancestry be completely similar to the Kenyan pastoralists? Why the separate 25% Natufian?

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  15. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride View Post
    I thought Kenyan pastoralist were already harbouring large amounts of Natufian like ancestry. Why does the calculator show a separate additional Natufian? Wouldn’t the Somali ancestry be completely similar to the Kenyan pastoralists? Why the separate 25% Natufian?
    As a result of Dinka-like Sudanic incursion, Kenya_Pastoral_IA are samples with only a bit over half Somali-like ancestry.

  16. #169
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    While we are on the subject of Somalis, Do you think the natufian component is an arab signal? Etc do somalis prefer Levant_Tell_Qarassa_Early_Antiquity over natufian which I think would be a better fit
    Target: _Arab
    Distance: 1.5938% / 0.01593837 | R3P
    57.6 TUN_Kerkouane_IA
    32.4 Levant_Baqah_BA
    10.0 COG_Kindoki_230BP

    Itrane model

    Target: _Arab
    Distance: 1.2836% / 0.01283568
    60.0 Berber
    11.2 Sub_saharan
    10.8 Levantine
    10.4 Arabian
    7.6 Egyptian

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  18. #170
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    E1b1b1a1a2

    Quote Originally Posted by Gentica277282 View Post
    While we are on the subject of Somalis, Do you think the natufian component is an arab signal? Etc do somalis prefer Levant_Tell_Qarassa_Early_Antiquity over natufian which I think would be a better fit
    Do you mean the extra additional Natufian shown when ancient Kenyan pastoralists is used?
    Last edited by Bulletproofpride; 12-06-2022 at 08:05 PM.

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