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Thread: do somalis have any iranian neolithic ancestry?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThaYamamoto View Post
    Wouldn't using Gumuz or Mursi vastly improve the fit - modern Dinka are far too West-African shifted.
    I'm using the Reich labs HO dataset which is missing the Pagani samples, like Gumuz and Mursi.

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThaYamamoto View Post
    Wouldn't using Gumuz or Mursi vastly improve the fit ? - modern Dinka are far too West-African shifted...actually not even modern, their West-African affinity is very ancient.
    Those groups are probably too Omotic admixed as well.There is no perfect proxy for the Saharan ancestry of Horners
    Code:
    Target: Drobbah
    Distance: 1.3922% / 0.01392203
    53.4	KEN_Pastoral_N
    34.6	KEN_Pastoral_IA
    7.4	Saudi
    4.6	Taforalt
    
    
    Target: Drobbah_FTDNA_scaled
    Distance: 2.8058% / 0.02805777
    94.8	South/Central_Somali
    5.2	Saudi

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  5. #23
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    Another surprisingly well fitting model, Ayodo_34s can be modeled as 60% Dinka 40% Kura Araxes and despite the lack of Dinka-like ancestry, the model's fit is even better than models using Yemeni Jews or Muslim Yemenis!

    (Chisquare: 2.551, Tail prob: 0.923207, Std errors: 0.013 0.013 )

    Edit: I seem to have accidentally removed MA1 from my outgroups. I'll try it out again but these inflated Iranian ancestry models were possibly a result of the lack of an ANE group in the right pops.
    Edit2: Kura Araxes and MA1 have a Z-score greater than 3, so I may try leaving it out.
    Last edited by Mnemonics; 06-07-2020 at 01:27 AM.

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  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by drobbah View Post
    Those groups are probably too Omotic admixed as well.There is no perfect proxy for the Saharan ancestry of Horners
    Have the Nuba been used as a proxy? I doubt that the fit would be much better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pgbk87 View Post
    Have the Nuba been used as a proxy? I doubt that the fit would be much better.
    If I remember correctly the the paper that published the Nuer samples used an array with poor overlap with the other samples in the dataset, which is why they are not in G25.


    Another update on the weirdly fitting qpadm model for Somalis (Dinka + Kura Araxes). I tried out a variety of right populations and this model seems very robust. It is consistently better than modelling Somalis as Dinka + Levant_PPNB. I tried using only modern distantly related groups in right pops list and the model still had a better fit compared to PPNB.

    PPNB: Chisquared: 9.347 Tail: 0.0959847688


    Kura Araxes: Chisquared: 6.479 Tail: 0.262346

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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mnemonics View Post
    If I remember correctly the the paper that published the Nuer samples used an array with poor overlap with the other samples in the dataset, which is why they are not in G25.


    Another update on the weirdly fitting qpadm model for Somalis (Dinka + Kura Araxes). I tried out a variety of right populations and this model seems very robust. It is consistently better than modelling Somalis as Dinka + Levant_PPNB. I tried using only modern distantly related groups in right pops list and the model still had a better fit compared to PPNB.

    PPNB: Chisquared: 9.347 Tail: 0.0959847688


    Kura Araxes: Chisquared: 6.479 Tail: 0.262346

    Can you do the same runs but with the Early pastoralists?

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    Kura-Araxes preferred over Levant is crazy...really need more N/E Africa studies man.

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    @Mnemonics

    https://populationgenomics.blog/2019...ers-maybe-not/

    A poster on this forum also did some runs but on Mbuti and showed that how adding modern African and EA populations to outgroup populations can produce weird results like Mbuti showing up as 30% Eurasian including a substantial amount of Iranian Neolithic like Ancestry which clearly is false.

    Here's what he wrote- " The graph above would be even worse if I added a modern East Asian like the Onge. Ths would require Onge admixture to the Mbuti too. All-in-all, I think this shows that if you include an African or modern Asian in your graph to start, you are already setting yourself up for issues here that might affect the outcome. While Chimp is maybe not completely ideal as an outgroup, it is more inline with the graph that has no African or Chimp in it. The stats line up much better with the graph. Not only that, it is apparent that any deep ancestry not covered within in the Ust_Ishim, West, East branching is still easily detectable without Chimp or an African outgroup in the graph."
    Last edited by sum1; 06-08-2020 at 10:38 PM.

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  17. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by sum1 View Post
    @Mnemonics

    https://populationgenomics.blog/2019...ers-maybe-not/

    A poster on this forum also did some runs but on Mbuti and showed that how adding modern African and EA populations to outgroup populations can produce weird results like Mbuti showing up as 30% Eurasian including a substantial amount of Iranian Neolithic like Ancestry which clearly is false.

    Here's what he wrote- " The graph above would be even worse if I added a modern East Asian like the Onge. Ths would require Onge admixture to the Mbuti too. All-in-all, I think this shows that if you include an African or modern Asian in your graph to start, you are already setting yourself up for issues here that might affect the outcome. While Chimp is maybe not completely ideal as an outgroup, it is more inline with the graph that has no African or Chimp in it. The stats line up much better with the graph. Not only that, it is apparent that any deep ancestry not covered within in the Ust_Ishim, West, East branching is still easily detectable without Chimp or an African outgroup in the graph."
    Thanks for the tip. I'll try replacing the modern Asian pops with ancients that are lacking this weird affinity.

  18. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Mnemonics View Post
    If I remember correctly the the paper that published the Nuer samples used an array with poor overlap with the other samples in the dataset, which is why they are not in G25.


    Another update on the weirdly fitting qpadm model for Somalis (Dinka + Kura Araxes). I tried out a variety of right populations and this model seems very robust. It is consistently better than modelling Somalis as Dinka + Levant_PPNB. I tried using only modern distantly related groups in right pops list and the model still had a better fit compared to PPNB.

    PPNB: Chisquared: 9.347 Tail: 0.0959847688


    Kura Araxes: Chisquared: 6.479 Tail: 0.262346
    There was a study that modelled the non-African component in Ethiopians as a mixture of ~85% Anatolian_N and ~15% CHG composition of ancestries. According to the authors, the Non-African admixture in Ethiopians is rather Minoan-like than Levantine or Yemenite Jewish-like. Furthermore, the West Eurasian admixture in Ethiopian Somali is better characterized as 92% of Anatolia_N and 8% of CHG when going by this study. However, since they came to the very strange conclusion that the source for the Western Eurasian ancestry of Ethiopians was linked to the Sea Peoples, many on anthrogenica dismissed this paper. What do you think?



    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-55344-y

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