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Thread: J-L70 Presence in the Middle East-North Africa

  1. #171
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    Israel Jerusalem Star of David Israel South Africa
    Quote Originally Posted by Emre Altug View Post
    FGC21085 is growing like there's no tomorrow
    It is the largest branch in J-L70 after all
    Other Y-DNA:

    Maternal 6X Great Grandfather J1-ZS10441

    Target: SUPREEEEEME_scaled
    Distance: 2.2733% / 0.02273307
    37.6 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
    17.4 GRC_Helladic_MBA
    15.4 ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA
    7.8 DEU_MA
    7.0 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
    6.4 Canary_Islands_Guanche
    6.0 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
    1.6 PAK_Barikot_H
    0.8 CHN_Chuanyun_Historic

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  3. #172
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  5. #173
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    J-S23155

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    Hello to all of you. A new sample under BY242, with no country yet. Best regards

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  7. #174
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    Good morning. A new sample under FGC58748, under Z40772. Unfortunately, again, with no flag yet.

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  9. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.delajara View Post
    Good morning. A new sample under FGC58748, under Z40772. Unfortunately, again, with no flag yet.
    I'll double-check, but should be the Sephardic Jew I mentioned a little bit ago. If it is, I'll see what I can do about getting a flag + language
    Other Y-DNA:

    Maternal 6X Great Grandfather J1-ZS10441

    Target: SUPREEEEEME_scaled
    Distance: 2.2733% / 0.02273307
    37.6 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
    17.4 GRC_Helladic_MBA
    15.4 ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA
    7.8 DEU_MA
    7.0 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
    6.4 Canary_Islands_Guanche
    6.0 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
    1.6 PAK_Barikot_H
    0.8 CHN_Chuanyun_Historic

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  11. #176
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    A Kurd from Sulaymaniyah(Northeast Iraq) posted in the 23andme subreddit a couple days ago, ydna J-L70.

    Honestly this seems like such a big subclade. I wonder how it got so widespread.

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  13. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helves View Post
    A Kurd from Sulaymaniyah(Northeast Iraq) posted in the 23andme subreddit a couple days ago, ydna J-L70.

    Honestly this seems like such a big subclade. I wonder how it got so widespread.
    I've found quite a few Kurds within J-L70 on FTDNA, which is intriguing.

    If we were to assume that J-L70 spread from around Syria (I understand not everyone necessarily agrees) we can start to hypothesize how J-L70 may have spread.

    Within the Near East:
    J-L70 would have first spread throughout the Near East region.
    For how it spread to the Southern Levant, this may have been during Egyptian rule of parts of the Levant. It may have also been spread there via Amorites or Arameans.
    For how it spread to Mesopotamia, the Middle Assyrian Empire may be responsible.
    For how it then spread to Anatolia, the Hittites may be the answer.

    Within Europe:
    We're probably looking at a variety of sources, such as:
    - Phoenicians (lessor)
    - Greeks via Anatolia (lessor)
    - Jewish Diaspora (lessor)
    - Aghlabid Dynasty (lessor - strictly Sicily)
    - Syrian Auxiliaries (greater - the majority for many different parts of Europe, particularly Germanic Europe, the British Isles, and even the Balkans - wherever they wound up)
    - Perhaps even Roman Auxiliaries from Anatolia

    I'm still on the lookout for an Assyrian J-L70
    Other Y-DNA:

    Maternal 6X Great Grandfather J1-ZS10441

    Target: SUPREEEEEME_scaled
    Distance: 2.2733% / 0.02273307
    37.6 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
    17.4 GRC_Helladic_MBA
    15.4 ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA
    7.8 DEU_MA
    7.0 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
    6.4 Canary_Islands_Guanche
    6.0 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
    1.6 PAK_Barikot_H
    0.8 CHN_Chuanyun_Historic

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  15. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPREEEEEME View Post
    I've found quite a few Kurds within J-L70 on FTDNA, which is intriguing.

    If we were to assume that J-L70 spread from around Syria (I understand not everyone necessarily agrees) we can start to hypothesize how J-L70 may have spread.

    Within the Near East:
    J-L70 would have first spread throughout the Near East region.
    For how it spread to the Southern Levant, this may have been during Egyptian rule of parts of the Levant. It may have also been spread there via Amorites or Arameans.
    For how it spread to Mesopotamia, the Middle Assyrian Empire may be responsible.
    For how it then spread to Anatolia, the Hittites may be the answer.

    Within Europe:
    We're probably looking at a variety of sources, such as:
    - Phoenicians (lessor)
    - Greeks via Anatolia (lessor)
    - Jewish Diaspora (lessor)
    - Aghlabid Dynasty (lessor - strictly Sicily)
    - Syrian Auxiliaries (greater - the majority for many different parts of Europe, particularly Germanic Europe, the British Isles, and even the Balkans - wherever they wound up)
    - Perhaps even Roman Auxiliaries from Anatolia

    I'm still on the lookout for an Assyrian J-L70
    Hi Supreeme, I will not go deeper on your full analysis, you already know my opinion, more linked to an Anatolian/Greek expansion (not exclusively but mainly), not only to the West, but also to part of the Levant and part of the Middle East. Of course we need to have more ancient evidence to have stronger arguments. What I don't think is accurate, is your 'Syrian roman auxiliaries' as the main source of L70 in Europe, I think that the big amount of L70 in Italy is mainly due to different waves of population from Anatolian/Aegean/Greece, to the Italian peninsula, specially to the Central South on different historical periods, that is: Pelasgians, Mycenaeans, Classical Greeks ( VIII Century colonizations) and others. Southern Italians ( to use a contemporary term) were an important part of roman army, long before Syrians were used as auxiliary troops. The roman expansion in places such as Hispania, Northern Africa or Galia, was made mainly with ''Italians'' during the last part of the Republic. Syria became a Roman province only with Pompeius Magnus, after defeating the Seleucid King of that region, on 63 BCE. They indeed were Syrian auxiliary troops, but the ''italians'' ( or italiotes from Magna Graecia ) were much more important for a longer period of time. Best Regards
    Last edited by J.delajara; 04-14-2021 at 08:55 PM.

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  17. #179
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    I think we’ll see a variation of branches having distinct origins. The most basals clearly point towards the East and the younger shows movement heading West. I personally say we’ll see native branches from Israel to Greece.

    Even within other branches we see huge variation, L70 is the best example of this. I can see it possible that in Iron Age J-M318 vs J-S11348 having entirely different origins separated by hundreds of years. So all theories work right now, question is which is right or are we going to have a situation where everyone is a little right?

    Essentially everyone wins scenario.
    My Y Line: J2a-L210>Z489>Z482>Y15222

    My Maternal Y: R1b-U152>Z36>Y156527

    Other Y lines Confirmed: 3x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J2a-S25258>SK1336

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  19. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.delajara View Post
    Hi Supreeme, I will not go deeper on your full analysis, you already know my opinion, more linked to an Anatolian/Greek expansion (not exclusively but mainly), not only to the West, but also to part of the Levant and part of the Middle East. Of course we need to have more ancient evidence to have stronger arguments. What I don't think is accurate, is your 'Syrian roman auxiliaries' as the main source of L70 in Europe, I think that the big amount of L70 in Italy is mainly due to different waves of population from Anatolian/Aegean/Greece, to the Italian peninsula, specially to the Central South on different historical periods, that is: Pelasgians, Mycenaeans, Classical Greeks ( VIII Century colonizations) and others. Southern Italians ( to use a contemporary term) were an important part of roman army, long before Syrians were used as auxiliary troops. The roman expansion in places such as Hispania, Northern Africa or Galia, was made mainly with ''Italians'' during the last part of the Republic. Syria became a Roman province only with Pompeius Magnus, after defeating the Seleucid King of that region, on 63 BCE. They indeed were Syrian auxiliary troops, but the ''italians'' ( or italiotes from Magna Graecia ) were much more important for a longer period of time. Best Regards
    As always, thanks for your insight, Juan.

    Given Italy's J-L70 frequency of around ~3.19%, their J-L70 is bound to have arrived via several sources. I will agree that some are likely via Anatolians/Greeks - although I don't think it will account for the majority - looking at existing branches in Italy, the only ones that I can see that may be attributable to such an expansion would be a handful within J-PH185 (but not J-FGC32147, which is bound to be early Arab). Some we know are of Jewish origin, with the best example being J-M318 in Sicily and Malta. There are other converso families from Central and Southern Italy as well. I do agree that within Central and Southern Italy we'll find branches that derive from both Greeks and Levantines. In Central Italy, some are bound to have arrived during Imperial Rome (including via Anatolians).

    Regarding the Syrian Auxiliaries - I was mainly referring to other parts of Europe (not necessarily Italy itself). The regions I expect J-L70 to be mainly derived via these men are the Rhineland, Austria, Serbia, Romania, Pannonia, and Britain (if we were to consider that J-L70 diversified in Syria, it would easily explain all the different branches from these regions popping up). Regarding France, I imagine the South would be from Italiotes, while Central and Northern France would be via Syrian Auxiliaries. But I agree that Iberia was more Italiote (aside from branches derived via Sephardic Jews).
    Other Y-DNA:

    Maternal 6X Great Grandfather J1-ZS10441

    Target: SUPREEEEEME_scaled
    Distance: 2.2733% / 0.02273307
    37.6 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
    17.4 GRC_Helladic_MBA
    15.4 ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA
    7.8 DEU_MA
    7.0 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
    6.4 Canary_Islands_Guanche
    6.0 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
    1.6 PAK_Barikot_H
    0.8 CHN_Chuanyun_Historic

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