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Thread: J-L70 Presence in the Middle East-North Africa

  1. #211
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    My maternal grandmother’s father Harold George Walker’s ancestry was Colonial European American. A few years back, I found out that my maternal grandmother’s father Harold George Walker’s Y DNA haplogroup is J2a4h2 which is known as J-L25. A descendant of his 2nd Great Grandfather Peyton Walker, son of William Walker took the Y DNA test which resulted in finding out that he was J-L25. The haplogroup assignment has been refined, and it is now J-PH3125. There are six haplogroups in the branch before J-PH3125. In exact order, they are J-CTS1192>J-L70>J-Z435>J-CTS3601>J-PF5456>J-FGC54172.



    Both 5th Great Grandpa Peyton Walker and 6th Grandpa William Walker were born in Virginia.



    I am already around 1/8 Ashkenazi Jewish from my maternal grandmother’s mother Ruth Sarah Rosenthal who was a first generation American born to a father from Romania and a mother from Latvia.
    My maternal grandfather's father was the son of Cape Verdean immigrants. My maternal grandfather's maternal grandfather was Puerto Rican. My maternal grandfather's maternal grandmother was the Hawaiian born daughter of Madeiran immigrants, and her paternal grandfather was from the Azores. Therefore, I suspect some Sephardic Jewish on my maternal grandfather's side.

    My African American father was born and raised in New Orleans, and his mother had some Acadian ancestry. One of her Acadian ancestors was Abraham Dugas who was suspected by some to be Sephardic Jewish, and his Y DNA haplogroup J-Y25793. His closest match is a Druze man in Lebanon.
    Last edited by Glaucus; 06-10-2021 at 05:48 PM.

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  3. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glaucus View Post
    My maternal grandmother’s father Harold George Walker’s ancestry was Colonial European American Colonial. A few years back, I found out that my maternal grandmother’s father Harold George Walker’s Y DNA haplogroup is J2a4h2 which is known as J-L25. A descendant of his 2nd Great Grandfather Peyton Walker, son of William Walker took the Y DNA test which resulted in finding out that he was J-L25. The haplogroup assignment has been refined, and it is now J-PH3125. There are six haplogroups in the branch before J-PH3125. In exact order, they are J-CTS1192>J-L70>J-Z435>J-CTS3601>J-PF5456>J-FGC54172.



    Both 5th Great Grandpa Peyton Walker and 6th Grandpa William Walker were born in Virginia.



    I am already around 1/8 Ashkenazi Jewish from my maternal grandmother’s mother Ruth Sarah Rosenthal who was a first generation American born to a father from Romania and a mother from Latvia.
    My maternal grandfather's father was the son of Cape Verdean immigrants. My maternal grandfather's maternal grandfather was Puerto Rican. My maternal grandfather's maternal grandmother was the Hawaiian born daughter of Madeiran immigrants, and her paternal grandfather was from the Azores. Therefore, I suspect some Sephardic Jewish on my maternal grandfather's side.

    My African American father was born and raised in New Orleans, and his mother had some Acadian ancestry. One of her Acadian ancestors was Abraham Dugas who was suspected by some to be Sephardic Jewish, and his Y DNA haplogroup J-Y25793. His closest match is a Druze man in Lebanon.
    Hi Glaucus. On Yfull you can find the Y24651/FGC54172 tree, www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y24651/ . There is also another basal from Virginia with that clade, his surname is Bryant, and he has British ancestors as probably the Walker family. Regards

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  5. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPREEEEEME View Post
    A Pontic J-L70 is quite a find. J-L70 is rare amongst them. Hundreds of them have tested with FamilyTreeDNA, but none are J-L70.

    It is reasonable to assume that SRS8752836 (Balkan Turk) is a Jewish exit given that he forms a clade with a Sephardic testee (many Jewish clades have a similar TMRCA of 2000 ybp). Quite a few individuals from this study are turning out to be Jewish exits. Given that his autosomal results don't show any recent Jewish ancestry, it would likely not be a recent exit.

    This would have implications for J-FGC58748 as a whole (and likely for J-Z40772 aswell)
    I'll post the admixtures soon, maybe this weekend.
    The Pontic guy is quite interesting because everything in his admixture shows he's pure Pontic, except a relatively high North European component. He has around %8 NE in Dodecad K12b. Other Pontians have 0 to maximum 4.
    That's why he is modelled as %11 Pomak + %89 Turkish(Trabzon/Rize)
    Target: EmreAltug_scaled
    Distance: 1.3564% / 0.01356424
    17.6 TKM_Parkhai_MBA
    16.6 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
    15.0 HRV_Vucedol
    14.8 Levant_Megiddo_IA
    14.4 ARM_Areni_C
    4.8 EGY_Hellenistic
    4.8 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA_low_res
    3.6 MNG_Center_West_LBA_5
    3.0 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o
    1.6 HUN_Prescythian_IA
    1.4 Corded_Ware_Proto-Unetice_POL
    1.4 Levant_PPNC

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    Quote Originally Posted by J.delajara View Post
    Hi Glaucus. On Yfull you can find the Y24651/FGC54172 tree, www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y24651/ . There is also another basal from Virginia with that clade, his surname is Bryant, and he has British ancestors as probably the Walker family. Regards

    I grew up thinking that my Walker family line was English. I ended up learning that it's actually Ulster Scot.
    My distant cousins believe that William Walker's paternal ancestors immigrated to Virginia from Scotland or Ireland.
    My Walker family were in what is now known as West Virginia before locating to Goochland County, Virginia before 1800.
    That territory was mainly populated by Ulster Scots.


    What kind of patrilineal ancestors did my Walker ancestors had?
    I don't know of any Jewish ancestry in my Colonial British American Walker family.

    Could one of my Walker patrilineal ancestors been an ancient Roman soldier in Britain in connection to Hadrian's Wall?


    What's your opinion about my 11th/12th Great Grandfather Abraham Dugas? Could he have been of Sephardic Jewish?
    Could this just be descent from a Roman man that settled in France?
    I do find it interesting that his closest Y DNA match is a Druze man in Lebanon.

    at eupedia, Maciamo seems to think J-L70 is connected to the Romans
    Last edited by Glaucus; 06-10-2021 at 06:04 PM.

  8. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glaucus View Post
    I grew up thinking that my Walker family line was English. I ended up learning that it's actually Ulster Scot.
    My distant cousins believe that William Walker's paternal ancestors immigrated to Virginia from Scotland or Ireland.
    My Walker family were in what is now known as West Virginia before locating to Goochland County, Virginia before 1800.
    That territory was mainly populated by Ulster Scots.


    What kind of patrilineal ancestors did my Walker ancestors had?
    I don't know of any Jewish ancestry in my Colonial British American Walker family.

    Could one of my Walker patrilineal ancestors been an ancient Roman soldier in Britain in connection to Hadrian's Wall?


    What's your opinion about my 11th/12th Great Grandfather Abraham Dugas? Could he have been of Sephardic Jewish?
    Could this just be descent from a Roman man that settled in France?
    I do find it interesting that his closest Y DNA match is a Druze man in Lebanon.

    at eupedia, Maciamo seems to think J-L70 is connected to the Romans
    Thanks a lot for your answer Glaucus. The origin of L70 is not yet clear, and as you can read on this and other threats, there are different options still open with different approaches . As soon as we will have ancient samples, we will have more conclusive elements to propose a stronger hypothesis. What we have until now, is that L70's belong to different cultures and religions, and that the Mediterranean played an important role on its subclades history. In my personal view I think romans indeed had an important role on expanding some L70 clades in Europe. There are some Scots, English and British in general , that belong to L70's clades. Regarding your Dugas ancestor, it is difficult to have an answer, I'am not an expert on Sephardic DNA so I can not give you more arguments, what I see on Yfull regarding his clade is that it seams to be concentrated in the Middle East.
    Best Regards

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  10. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glaucus View Post
    My maternal grandmother’s father Harold George Walker’s ancestry was Colonial European American. A few years back, I found out that my maternal grandmother’s father Harold George Walker’s Y DNA haplogroup is J2a4h2 which is known as J-L25. A descendant of his 2nd Great Grandfather Peyton Walker, son of William Walker took the Y DNA test which resulted in finding out that he was J-L25. The haplogroup assignment has been refined, and it is now J-PH3125. There are six haplogroups in the branch before J-PH3125. In exact order, they are J-CTS1192>J-L70>J-Z435>J-CTS3601>J-PF5456>J-FGC54172.



    Both 5th Great Grandpa Peyton Walker and 6th Grandpa William Walker were born in Virginia.



    I am already around 1/8 Ashkenazi Jewish from my maternal grandmother’s mother Ruth Sarah Rosenthal who was a first generation American born to a father from Romania and a mother from Latvia.
    My maternal grandfather's father was the son of Cape Verdean immigrants. My maternal grandfather's maternal grandfather was Puerto Rican. My maternal grandfather's maternal grandmother was the Hawaiian born daughter of Madeiran immigrants, and her paternal grandfather was from the Azores. Therefore, I suspect some Sephardic Jewish on my maternal grandfather's side.

    My African American father was born and raised in New Orleans, and his mother had some Acadian ancestry. One of her Acadian ancestors was Abraham Dugas who was suspected by some to be Sephardic Jewish, and his Y DNA haplogroup J-Y25793. His closest match is a Druze man in Lebanon.
    While the possibility exists for Jewish ancestry since there are indeed Jewish lineages within J-FGC54172, we would need to confirm this with Sephardic matches. The most recent Jewish connection with your Walker line would be at ~1000 BCE.
    Other Y-DNA:

    Maternal 6X Great Grandfather J1-ZS10441

    Target: SUPREEEEEME_scaled
    Distance: 2.2733% / 0.02273307
    37.6 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
    17.4 GRC_Helladic_MBA
    15.4 ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA
    7.8 DEU_MA
    7.0 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
    6.4 Canary_Islands_Guanche
    6.0 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
    1.6 PAK_Barikot_H
    0.8 CHN_Chuanyun_Historic

  11. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glaucus View Post
    I grew up thinking that my Walker family line was English. I ended up learning that it's actually Ulster Scot.
    My distant cousins believe that William Walker's paternal ancestors immigrated to Virginia from Scotland or Ireland.
    My Walker family were in what is now known as West Virginia before locating to Goochland County, Virginia before 1800.
    That territory was mainly populated by Ulster Scots.


    What kind of patrilineal ancestors did my Walker ancestors had?
    I don't know of any Jewish ancestry in my Colonial British American Walker family.

    Could one of my Walker patrilineal ancestors been an ancient Roman soldier in Britain in connection to Hadrian's Wall?


    What's your opinion about my 11th/12th Great Grandfather Abraham Dugas? Could he have been of Sephardic Jewish?
    Could this just be descent from a Roman man that settled in France?
    I do find it interesting that his closest Y DNA match is a Druze man in Lebanon.

    at eupedia, Maciamo seems to think J-L70 is connected to the Romans
    I'd take what Maciamo says about J-L70 with a grain of salt. His site is incredibly outdated - you'd find more useful and relevant information here.

    He traditionally attributed J-L70 to being an Italic marker. It is most certainly not.

    What appears clear, at least to me, is that J-L70 originated somewhere between the Levant and Anatolia in the Middle East. It likely principally spread throughout the Middle East, and only then made its way to Europe - likely via the Romans as the dominant source, who continued to spread it throughout continental Europe. However, J-L70's main growth period occurred long before the Romans, between 1400 BCE and 1100 BCE, and so it is within the civilizations of this time frame that we are looking for a culture responsible for its diversification of branches.
    Other Y-DNA:

    Maternal 6X Great Grandfather J1-ZS10441

    Target: SUPREEEEEME_scaled
    Distance: 2.2733% / 0.02273307
    37.6 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
    17.4 GRC_Helladic_MBA
    15.4 ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA
    7.8 DEU_MA
    7.0 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
    6.4 Canary_Islands_Guanche
    6.0 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
    1.6 PAK_Barikot_H
    0.8 CHN_Chuanyun_Historic

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  13. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.delajara View Post
    Thanks a lot for your answer Glaucus. The origin of L70 is not yet clear, and as you can read on this and other threats, there are different options still open with different approaches . As soon as we will have ancient samples, we will have more conclusive elements to propose a stronger hypothesis. What we have until now, is that L70's belong to different cultures and religions, and that the Mediterranean played an important role on its subclades history. In my personal view I think romans indeed had an important role on expanding some L70 clades in Europe. There are some Scots, English and British in general , that belong to L70's clades. Regarding your Dugas ancestor, it is difficult to have an answer, I'am not an expert on Sephardic DNA so I can not give you more arguments, what I see on Yfull regarding his clade is that it seams to be concentrated in the Middle East.
    Best Regards
    correction to my mistake
    Abraham was my 10th/11th Great Grandfather
    He was married to my 10th/11th Great Grandmother Marguerite Louise Doucet whose mitochondrial DNA haplogroup is T2b7a2.
    they're ancestors of thousands of people with Acadian ancestry too
    Acadians are so highly recent endogamous that I believe all people with Acadian ancestry are related to each other through some shared 17th Century
    My 10th/11th Great Grandmother Margeurite's mitochondrial DNA haplogroup is T2b7a2.


    I notice some of my other Acadian founding ancestors had haplogroups that weren't typical of French people

    mitochondrial DNA haplogroups
    Radegonde Lambert X2b4
    Edmee Lejeune U6a7a1a
    Marie Andree Guyon T2c1d-T152C!
    Francoise Gaudet J1b2

    Y DNA haplogroups
    Philip Mius D'Entremont E-V13
    Denis Gaudet J-M172




    I read the following about my forefather Abraham Dugas


    We found a descendent of Abraham Dugas to do a DNA test. All men who descend from Abraham Dugas of Acadia will carry the same DNA genetic signature.

    The DNA test participant was Jean Jacques Dugas of Montreal and the results place Dugas men into Haplogroup J2. This is the same Haplogroup as the Dugas dit Labreche family but the DNA also shows the 2 ancestors were not related. J2 is very rare among French Canadians, found in only 5%. It is a haplogroup that is most frequent today in the Middle East and to a lesser degree in the Mediterranean. It is very common among Jewish people today, actually the most frequent haplogroup at about 30%. It was for this reasoning that we had the testing done. First, the surname Duga is common among eastern european Jews. One such Duga even has theorized his family line escaped the Spanish inquisition. Second, his given name was Abraham, which is a common Jewish given name. Third, his mother's name seems to have been Cassonne or Carsonne but neither name seems to exist in records. However, the surname Carcassonne does and it was often a Jewish surname in the south of France during those times. It is found very frequently in the Jewish records from Avignon, right next door to where we find the highest frequency of Dugas' today in France, Gard. The Dugas men have very few close genetic links, the closest being a man from Hama, Syria. Both the Dugas and Dugas Labreche families carry a genetic signature quite different from that of their other French Canadian peers.

    This DNA result does not prove Abraham Dugas or Jean Ducas/Dugas dit Labreche were of Jewish ancestry, but it is very strongly supportive data for any theory that he was.
    https://www.genealogy.com/forum/surn...ics/dugas/549/



    I found out that Dugas dit Labreche’s Y DNA haplogroup is J2a4h2 too. It says J2a4h, but it is an outdated assignment. Dugas dit Labreche Y DNA has the J-L25 which means that it’s J2a4h2 aka J-L25.



    the site says the following:


    Y-DNA Haplogroup J2a4h M172+ M410+ L24+(M530+) L25+ L231+


    Recent testing on the Dugas dit Labreche family and on a descendent of Abraham Dugas, the Acadian ancestor of many Dugas in North America, showed both men were unrelated, even though they shared the same surname, but that both men carried a fairly rare genetic signature indicating Haplogroup J2a. All men who have the M172 mutation and the downstream M410 mutation, indicating Haplogroup J2a are very distantly related to one man who lived in the Middle East over 10,000 years ago. Halplogroup J2 is quite rare among French Canadians, about 83% of them belonging to Haplogroup R1B or I. About 4% of participants in the French Heritage DNA project showed a haplogroup assignment of J2. Haplogroup J2 is most frequent today in the Middle East and Eastern Mediterranean. In Iraq about 50% of men are in Haplogroup J, half of which in J2. In Lebanon, Turkey, Cyprus, Crete, and areas of Southern Italy, Haplogroup J2 is found in about a quarter of the population. Both Dugas ancestors were from the border region with Spain and it should be noted that Sephardic Jewish populations carry a very high percentage of Haplogroup J2, 29% and Haplogroup J2 is the most frequent haplogroup in Jewish populations overall. Jean Ducas dit Labreche was from the Basque country and a recent DNA study on the remains of 30 Basques from the 7th Century, showed Haplogroup R1b and I were the only haplogroups present. Haplogroup J2 did not appear to be present in the region at that time. Currently, researchers are looking at specific subclades of Haplogroup J2 which show distinct geographical spreads. Research is in its' primary stages, but the DNA subclade, L24 or M530 (rs35248080) and L25 (rs34534058) w DYS 445=10 in which descendents of Jean Ducas dit Labreche fall into, seems to have a geographic tendency in present day populations in the Middle East, specifically Iran and Lebanon. Most recently a new SNP, L231 was discovered through Y chromosome testing in a Dugas Labreche DNA sample. A C-G transition at position 13524835 of the Y chromosome was noted and to date, this mutation has only been found in men from the Dugas dit Labreche family.

    Looking at M530, the mutation found in the Dugas dit Labreche Family, its presence in Europe is very rare. Highest frequencies for this paternal marker are found in Iran (up to 17.6%), followed by Lebanon (12%). J2a3h2 (J2a4h2) M530 Distribution from Semino 2012:


    Did Jean Ducas descend from the Morisco or Sephardic Populations expelled from Spain?


    Although it is difficult to attach a recent ancestry based soley on a DNA result, it does seem quite likely that Jean Ducas may have descended from Sephardic or Morisco populations expelled from Spain as a result of the Spanish inquisition. The map on the left, shows one wave of emmigration from Aragon in 1610. This was an emmigration largely of converted muslims into France and to the Ottoman Empire. Henry the IV of Bearn granted entry of 22,000 Mudejar's (Morisco's) from Aragon, charging 10 reales per person. What is important to note is the routes they took to enter France. 12,000 Entered through the Somport Pass. Saint Pierre d'Oloron lies at the head of this pass. Another 10,000 entered France via Roncesvalles-Saint Jean Pied du Port. Although many of these emigrants moved on and settled north of the Dordogne, many also settled in Bearn and the Pays Basque. There were many thousands more entering via the ports at Saint Jean de Luz and Bayonne, and much more illegal land migration over the Pyrenees. Oloron did have Jewish and Morisco communities at the time of our ancestor's birth as well as strong commercial links to the Moors and Sephardic populations of Aragon, specifically in the textile trade. We also see the surname Ducha and Ducas present in the village of Cascante and Tudela, Navarra as well as in Oloron. Records for the surname Ducas have been found in Oloron, Saint Jean de Luz, Tudela and Cazeres on the road between Tarbes and Toulouse. The son of a Marguerite Ducas, Jean Bourdin, from Le Mas d'Azil, near Toulouse is registered leaving France in 1686 to reside in the Levant. He left the port of Marseille for Tripoli, Syria (now Lebanon). This record is registered with the Chamber of Commerce in Marseille.

    Today, Haplogroup J2 is present in 7.8% of Bearnaise men. What is clear is that the semi independent regions along the border of France and Spain did receive a boost in populations as a result of all sorts of religious persecutions. It is also quite possible our ancestor's moved into Bearn from the Languedoc (southern France) as a result of Huguenot persecution in the 16th century or Jewish Persecution in the 14th century. During the 16th century France was in the middle of the Wars of Religion, largely between protestants and catholics. Bearn was one region of refuge for protestants who had been displaced by these wars. In either case, it appears our ancestor could have been a recent arrival into Bearn, coming from the Languedoc or from Spain. This would explain why the surname Ducas and its phonetical equivalent, Ducha, were quite rare in the region and are now, all but gone.


    Sephardic Migration into France

    During the Spanish inquisition period, large numbers of Sephardic and Morisco communities settled in Southern France. They settled in Saint Jean de Luz, Bayonne, Biarritz, Bidache, Labastide Clairance, Tarbes, Toulouse, Marseille, Bordeaux and La Rochelle. They lived as new christians, but many returned to their faith openly in France or moving on to the Netherlands and points east. Do the seemingly elevated levels of DNA haplogroups J2 and E3b in south western France represent the descendents of this Sephardic Migration? In part, quite likely, but Haplogroup J2 and E3b began to arrive in France before the idea of "France" was even dreamed of. Likely even before the Phoenicians, there was some settlement of Middle Eastern peoples in the Mediterranean areas of France. The Greek and Phoenician presence also brought J2 into France and of course the Roman period also would have been a major contributor of Haplogroup J2 into what is today, France. So although, rare, Haplogroup J2 can be found in local populations throughout France and Spain.


    DNA Mutation Rates observed in the Dugas Labreche DNA lines

    Recent testing on 2 lines of the Dugas dit Labreche family noted higher mutation rates than rates generally used in calculating a Time to Most a Recent Common Ancestor (TMRCA). The accepted rates, 0.002 to 0.0024 are only about half of the rates observed when comparing 2 lineages in the Dugas Labreche family. 2 Participants, both descended from Jean Ducas, married in 1708, with a total of 17 transmission events (births) down both lines combined, observed mutations of one step on 5 different markers. The markers, DYS 607, DYS 576, CDYa, DYS 438 and DYS 534 show individually varying mutation rates of their own, with DYS 438 being a very slow moving marker. All told, the overall 67 marker mutation rate observed in our comparison was 0.0044. Many test participants have also noted higher mutation rates similar to those observed in our line and it is generally considered that these rates vary from lineage to lineage and also possibly, from time period to time period.

    https://dugas.weebly.com/dna.html


    I find my British Colonial American Walker family line and the French Canadian Dugas dit Labreche family line sharing J-L25 in common very interesting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPREEEEEME View Post
    I'd take what Maciamo says about J-L70 with a grain of salt. His site is incredibly outdated - you'd find more useful and relevant information here.

    He traditionally attributed J-L70 to being an Italic marker. It is most certainly not.

    What appears clear, at least to me, is that J-L70 originated somewhere between the Levant and Anatolia in the Middle East. It likely principally spread throughout the Middle East, and only then made its way to Europe - likely via the Romans as the dominant source, who continued to spread it throughout continental Europe. However, J-L70's main growth period occurred long before the Romans, between 1400 BCE and 1100 BCE, and so it is within the civilizations of this time frame that we are looking for a culture responsible for its diversification of branches.
    I do take what Maciamo says about J-L70 with a grain of salt.
    I wonder why he focuses on it being an Italic marker.

    I have been reading your posts about J-L70 here and in eupedia, and I was quite fascinated. Because my maternal grandmother's father belonging to the Y DNA J-L70 branch, I was very interested in what you shared. It all makes sense to me. Thank you for sharing. I appreciate it.
    I have no doubts that J-L70 is a Middle Eastern subclade.
    I just wondered how it got into the British gene pool.


    I would love to read any opinions that you have about my maternal 6th Great Grandfather William Walker' Y DNA J-PH3125 and my paternal 10th/11th Great Grandfather Abraham Dugas' Y DNA J-Y25793 and what you think what their ancestral origins were.
    I find that both William and Abraham's Y DNA are of the J2a subclade branches to be interesting. I find that both my Walker ancestors' Y DNA and Jean Dugas dit Labreche Y DNA are of the J-L25 branch to be even more interesting.
    I am definitely very open to the possibility that my 10th/11th Great Grandfather Abraham Dugas had Sephardic Jewish ancestry. The stuff that I read about him and the Y DNA findings/matches seem to support it.

    My Walker ancestors Y DNA branches are
    L70
    Z435
    CTS3601
    PF5456
    FGC54172
    PH3125


    BTW...I am very sorry about how you were being addressed by one of the moderators in eupedia.
    She was being very condescending.
    You have very good information to share.
    Last edited by Glaucus; 06-10-2021 at 10:53 PM.

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  17. #220
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    J-S23155

    Spanish Empire (1506-1701)
    Quote Originally Posted by Glaucus View Post
    correction to my mistake
    Abraham was my 10th/11th Great Grandfather
    He was married to my 10th/11th Great Grandmother Marguerite Louise Doucet whose mitochondrial DNA haplogroup is T2b7a2.
    they're ancestors of thousands of people with Acadian ancestry too
    Acadians are so highly recent endogamous that I believe all people with Acadian ancestry are related to each other through some shared 17th Century
    My 10th/11th Great Grandmother Margeurite's mitochondrial DNA haplogroup is T2b7a2.


    I notice some of my other Acadian founding ancestors had haplogroups that weren't typical of French people

    mitochondrial DNA haplogroups
    Radegonde Lambert X2b4
    Edmee Lejeune U6a7a1a
    Marie Andree Guyon T2c1d-T152C!
    Francoise Gaudet J1b2

    Y DNA haplogroups
    Philip Mius D'Entremont E-V13
    Denis Gaudet J-M172




    I read the following about my forefather Abraham Dugas


    We found a descendent of Abraham Dugas to do a DNA test. All men who descend from Abraham Dugas of Acadia will carry the same DNA genetic signature.

    The DNA test participant was Jean Jacques Dugas of Montreal and the results place Dugas men into Haplogroup J2. This is the same Haplogroup as the Dugas dit Labreche family but the DNA also shows the 2 ancestors were not related. J2 is very rare among French Canadians, found in only 5%. It is a haplogroup that is most frequent today in the Middle East and to a lesser degree in the Mediterranean. It is very common among Jewish people today, actually the most frequent haplogroup at about 30%. It was for this reasoning that we had the testing done. First, the surname Duga is common among eastern european Jews. One such Duga even has theorized his family line escaped the Spanish inquisition. Second, his given name was Abraham, which is a common Jewish given name. Third, his mother's name seems to have been Cassonne or Carsonne but neither name seems to exist in records. However, the surname Carcassonne does and it was often a Jewish surname in the south of France during those times. It is found very frequently in the Jewish records from Avignon, right next door to where we find the highest frequency of Dugas' today in France, Gard. The Dugas men have very few close genetic links, the closest being a man from Hama, Syria. Both the Dugas and Dugas Labreche families carry a genetic signature quite different from that of their other French Canadian peers.

    This DNA result does not prove Abraham Dugas or Jean Ducas/Dugas dit Labreche were of Jewish ancestry, but it is very strongly supportive data for any theory that he was.
    https://www.genealogy.com/forum/surn...ics/dugas/549/



    I found out that Dugas dit Labreche’s Y DNA haplogroup is J2a4h2 too. It says J2a4h, but it is an outdated assignment. Dugas dit Labreche Y DNA has the J-L25 which means that it’s J2a4h2 aka J-L25.



    the site says the following:


    Y-DNA Haplogroup J2a4h M172+ M410+ L24+(M530+) L25+ L231+


    Recent testing on the Dugas dit Labreche family and on a descendent of Abraham Dugas, the Acadian ancestor of many Dugas in North America, showed both men were unrelated, even though they shared the same surname, but that both men carried a fairly rare genetic signature indicating Haplogroup J2a. All men who have the M172 mutation and the downstream M410 mutation, indicating Haplogroup J2a are very distantly related to one man who lived in the Middle East over 10,000 years ago. Halplogroup J2 is quite rare among French Canadians, about 83% of them belonging to Haplogroup R1B or I. About 4% of participants in the French Heritage DNA project showed a haplogroup assignment of J2. Haplogroup J2 is most frequent today in the Middle East and Eastern Mediterranean. In Iraq about 50% of men are in Haplogroup J, half of which in J2. In Lebanon, Turkey, Cyprus, Crete, and areas of Southern Italy, Haplogroup J2 is found in about a quarter of the population. Both Dugas ancestors were from the border region with Spain and it should be noted that Sephardic Jewish populations carry a very high percentage of Haplogroup J2, 29% and Haplogroup J2 is the most frequent haplogroup in Jewish populations overall. Jean Ducas dit Labreche was from the Basque country and a recent DNA study on the remains of 30 Basques from the 7th Century, showed Haplogroup R1b and I were the only haplogroups present. Haplogroup J2 did not appear to be present in the region at that time. Currently, researchers are looking at specific subclades of Haplogroup J2 which show distinct geographical spreads. Research is in its' primary stages, but the DNA subclade, L24 or M530 (rs35248080) and L25 (rs34534058) w DYS 445=10 in which descendents of Jean Ducas dit Labreche fall into, seems to have a geographic tendency in present day populations in the Middle East, specifically Iran and Lebanon. Most recently a new SNP, L231 was discovered through Y chromosome testing in a Dugas Labreche DNA sample. A C-G transition at position 13524835 of the Y chromosome was noted and to date, this mutation has only been found in men from the Dugas dit Labreche family.

    Looking at M530, the mutation found in the Dugas dit Labreche Family, its presence in Europe is very rare. Highest frequencies for this paternal marker are found in Iran (up to 17.6%), followed by Lebanon (12%). J2a3h2 (J2a4h2) M530 Distribution from Semino 2012:


    Did Jean Ducas descend from the Morisco or Sephardic Populations expelled from Spain?


    Although it is difficult to attach a recent ancestry based soley on a DNA result, it does seem quite likely that Jean Ducas may have descended from Sephardic or Morisco populations expelled from Spain as a result of the Spanish inquisition. The map on the left, shows one wave of emmigration from Aragon in 1610. This was an emmigration largely of converted muslims into France and to the Ottoman Empire. Henry the IV of Bearn granted entry of 22,000 Mudejar's (Morisco's) from Aragon, charging 10 reales per person. What is important to note is the routes they took to enter France. 12,000 Entered through the Somport Pass. Saint Pierre d'Oloron lies at the head of this pass. Another 10,000 entered France via Roncesvalles-Saint Jean Pied du Port. Although many of these emigrants moved on and settled north of the Dordogne, many also settled in Bearn and the Pays Basque. There were many thousands more entering via the ports at Saint Jean de Luz and Bayonne, and much more illegal land migration over the Pyrenees. Oloron did have Jewish and Morisco communities at the time of our ancestor's birth as well as strong commercial links to the Moors and Sephardic populations of Aragon, specifically in the textile trade. We also see the surname Ducha and Ducas present in the village of Cascante and Tudela, Navarra as well as in Oloron. Records for the surname Ducas have been found in Oloron, Saint Jean de Luz, Tudela and Cazeres on the road between Tarbes and Toulouse. The son of a Marguerite Ducas, Jean Bourdin, from Le Mas d'Azil, near Toulouse is registered leaving France in 1686 to reside in the Levant. He left the port of Marseille for Tripoli, Syria (now Lebanon). This record is registered with the Chamber of Commerce in Marseille.

    Today, Haplogroup J2 is present in 7.8% of Bearnaise men. What is clear is that the semi independent regions along the border of France and Spain did receive a boost in populations as a result of all sorts of religious persecutions. It is also quite possible our ancestor's moved into Bearn from the Languedoc (southern France) as a result of Huguenot persecution in the 16th century or Jewish Persecution in the 14th century. During the 16th century France was in the middle of the Wars of Religion, largely between protestants and catholics. Bearn was one region of refuge for protestants who had been displaced by these wars. In either case, it appears our ancestor could have been a recent arrival into Bearn, coming from the Languedoc or from Spain. This would explain why the surname Ducas and its phonetical equivalent, Ducha, were quite rare in the region and are now, all but gone.


    Sephardic Migration into France

    During the Spanish inquisition period, large numbers of Sephardic and Morisco communities settled in Southern France. They settled in Saint Jean de Luz, Bayonne, Biarritz, Bidache, Labastide Clairance, Tarbes, Toulouse, Marseille, Bordeaux and La Rochelle. They lived as new christians, but many returned to their faith openly in France or moving on to the Netherlands and points east. Do the seemingly elevated levels of DNA haplogroups J2 and E3b in south western France represent the descendents of this Sephardic Migration? In part, quite likely, but Haplogroup J2 and E3b began to arrive in France before the idea of "France" was even dreamed of. Likely even before the Phoenicians, there was some settlement of Middle Eastern peoples in the Mediterranean areas of France. The Greek and Phoenician presence also brought J2 into France and of course the Roman period also would have been a major contributor of Haplogroup J2 into what is today, France. So although, rare, Haplogroup J2 can be found in local populations throughout France and Spain.


    DNA Mutation Rates observed in the Dugas Labreche DNA lines

    Recent testing on 2 lines of the Dugas dit Labreche family noted higher mutation rates than rates generally used in calculating a Time to Most a Recent Common Ancestor (TMRCA). The accepted rates, 0.002 to 0.0024 are only about half of the rates observed when comparing 2 lineages in the Dugas Labreche family. 2 Participants, both descended from Jean Ducas, married in 1708, with a total of 17 transmission events (births) down both lines combined, observed mutations of one step on 5 different markers. The markers, DYS 607, DYS 576, CDYa, DYS 438 and DYS 534 show individually varying mutation rates of their own, with DYS 438 being a very slow moving marker. All told, the overall 67 marker mutation rate observed in our comparison was 0.0044. Many test participants have also noted higher mutation rates similar to those observed in our line and it is generally considered that these rates vary from lineage to lineage and also possibly, from time period to time period.

    https://dugas.weebly.com/dna.html


    I find my British Colonial American Walker family line and the French Canadian Dugas dit Labreche family line sharing J-L25 in common very interesting.
    Thanks for all the information. I arrived to genetics, first of all because I've been always interested in genealogy, so for me is quite interesting all the information you are giving. Regarding the Moriscos migration to France, although it could be a possibility I think is not the only way to look for your deep ancestry, specially because we have reliable family records from the second half of the XVI th. century, and at least you would have some documental trace to follow that clue. If your family is mostly from Avignon in Provence, a Mediterranean path for your ancestors seams to me more possible, Phoenicians, Greek, Jews, romans, among others. Best Regards

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