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Thread: J-L70 Presence in the Middle East-North Africa

  1. #1
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    J-L70
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    J-L816

    Israel Jerusalem Star of David Israel South Africa

    J-L70 Presence in the Middle East-North Africa

    I have decided to create a thread to post my findings on where J-L70 is found in the MENA region and how many individuals I was able find.

    A couple months back I decided to draw up a spreadsheet of J-L70 individuals from manually searching through loads of FamilyTreeDNA projects. From the data, it was most common in Jews, then Italians, then English people - which somewhat matched up with FamilyTreeDNA's Haplotree (minus Jews). Ultimately, I decided against doing anything with this spreadsheet, as I realised the Haplotree should have the exact information - but here we are (I'm only discussing MENA groups - but if anyone wants me to post the whole spreadsheet, just ask). In this spreadsheet, I explicitly acknowledged Jewish descent (Ashkenazi, Sephardi etc...).

    I'm not going to post any kit numbers, but I do have them all on the spreadsheet. I explicitly checked that I had no duplicate kit numbers. Unfortunately there were some projects I could not access - oh well...
    I'll disclose ethnicity/tribe etc... where possible

    DISCLAIMER: If there are any errors, please let me know - and remember - I'm only human
    Most are subclades under J-L70, where there is uncertainty/doubt, I disclose it.

    THIS IS FAMILYTREEDNA ONLY

    Iraq:
    10 x J-CTS3601
    1 x J-CTS3601 (Kurdish)
    1 x J-CTS3601 (Arab)
    1 x J-FGC24630
    2 x J-CTS6061

    Lebanon
    5 x J-CTS3601

    Saudi Arabia
    1 x J-L70
    1 x J-PH2838
    1 x J-CTS3601

    Jordan
    1 x J-CTS3601

    Syria
    1 x J-CTS3601
    1 x J-L70 (Alawite)
    1 x J-FGC24630
    1 x J-Y128867
    1 x J-L70

    Azerbaijan
    1 x J-PH2725 (Saltak tribe)
    1 x J-PH2725
    1 x J-Z2177

    Turkey
    2 x J-L70
    1 x J-FGC24630
    1 x J-Z40004
    1 x J-FT133466
    2 x J-Z2177
    1 x J-M137

    Armenia
    4 x J-L70
    1 x J-PF5456
    1 x J-Z435

    Algeria
    1 x J-CTS3601

    Palestinian Territories
    1 x J-CTS3601
    1 x J-Z435

    Egypt
    1 x J-CTS3601

    Turkmenistan
    2 x J-L70
    2 x J-L1021

    Georgia
    1 x CTS3601

    Iran
    1 x J-Z2177

    Jews
    *Important to note: mostly name/surname based. Many "Sephardic" surnames were googled for confirmation (if that means anything). If they were on a JewishDNA project (I'll specify), I assumed they were of Jewish origin (whether that's right or wrong). Assume Ashkenazi unless told otherwise.

    Romania
    1 x J-P244

    Poland
    1 x J-Z45813
    5 x J-PF5456
    1 x J-Z39496
    5 x J-P244
    1 x J-BY37767
    2 x J-L70
    1 x J-FGC6734
    1 x J-L398
    1 x J-L396

    Ukraine
    2 x J-BY268
    3 x J-PF5456
    6 x J-L70
    1 x J-BY242
    3 x J-P244
    1 x J-Z435

    Russia
    2 x J-L70
    1 x J-BY268
    1 x J-PF5456

    Lithuania
    2 x J-PF5456
    1 x J-BY268

    Belarus
    1 x J-PF5456
    2 x J-BY268

    Germany
    1 x J-BY268
    1 x J-PF5456
    1 x J-BY96345 (on Sephardic group)
    3 x J-L70
    1 x J-Z40776

    Austria
    1 x J-L70
    1 x J-FGC21083

    Czech Republic
    1 x J-BY268

    Hungary
    1 x J-L70

    Dominican Republic
    1 x J-PH2725 (Found on JewishDNA project)

    Spain
    2 x J-PF5456 (Found on JewishDNA project)
    2 x J-PF5456 (Sephardic)
    2 x J-L70 (Sephardic surname)

    Italy
    1 x J-FGC24630 (Found on JewishDNA project)
    1 x J-Z2177 (Found on JewishDNA project)
    1 x J-BY76232 (Jewish origin)
    2 x J-L70 (Jewish origin)
    2 x J-PH185 (Jewish origin)

    Greece
    1 x J-L70 (Romaniote)

    Puerto Rico
    2 x J-PF5456 (Sephardic)
    2 x J-PF5456 (Found on JewishDNA project)

    Portugal
    1 x J-FGC6735 (Found on JewishDNA project)
    1 x J-L70 (Sephardic)
    2 x J-L70 (Sephardic surname)
    1 x J-BY71859 (Sephardic surname)

    Scotland
    1 x J-Z40772 (Found on JewishDNA project)

    Denmark
    1 x J-L70 (Found on JewishDNA project)

    Mexico
    1 x J-PF5456 (Sephardic surname)
    1 x J-S11348 (Jewish surname)

    Wales
    1 x J-L70 (Found on JewishDNA project)

    Colombia
    1 x J-FGC52118 (Sephardic surname)

    Unknown
    1 x J-Z2177 (Found on JewishDNA project)
    5 x J-L70 (Ashkenazi)
    1 x J-L396 (Ashkenazi)
    1 x J-Z39055 (Ashkenazi)
    1 x J-BY268 (Ashkenazi)


    While I'm here, I thought I may as well post all the frequencies of J-L70 that I have found from studies:
    - Var (which is Eastern Provence): 7.8%
    - Phokaia: 6.5%
    - Central Anatolia: 5.5%
    (https://bmcevolbiol.biomedcentral.co...471-2148-11-69)

    - Trapani: 9.09%
    - Mazara del Vallo: 11.11%
    - Alcamo: 8.33%
    - Troina: 10%
    - Ragusa: 3.57%
    (https://www.nature.com/articles/ejhg2008120)

    - Crete: 3.8%
    - Central Anatolia: 7.6%
    - Southern Anatolia: 7.6%
    (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...AlAjg-NPR7Y%3D)

    - Cyprus: 4.9%
    (https://investigativegenetics.biomed...323-016-0032-8)

    So yeah...
    Last edited by SUPREEEEEME; 02-22-2020 at 05:54 AM.
    Other Y-DNA:

    Maternal 6X Great Grandfather J1-ZS10441

    Target: SUPREEEEEME_scaled
    Distance: 1.9563% / 0.01956275
    33.6 Levant_Ashkelon_LBA
    18.4 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
    11.8 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
    10.0 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_BA
    9.0 Canary_Islands_Guanche
    8.4 FRA_IA
    7.6 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA
    1.2 CHN_Chuanyun_Historic

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  3. #2
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    Good work - I have been wanting to find out more about J-L70 for a while now as this is my own Y-DNA. You should probably remove any speculative labels around these samples until we know their ethnic origin for certain.

    I would also appreciate it if you posted the full spreadsheet that includes data about the frequency of this lineage within Europe.

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  5. #3
    Registered Users
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    Y-DNA (P)
    J-L70
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    HV1b2
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    J-L816

    Israel Jerusalem Star of David Israel South Africa
    Here's the spreadsheet:
    https://www90.zippyshare.com/v/g7zrl9rF/file.html

    Those interested may also find this of interest:
    https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...5109907535&z=4

    Here is the Yfull:
    https://yfull.com/tree/J-L70/
    Last edited by SUPREEEEEME; 02-22-2020 at 07:38 AM.
    Other Y-DNA:

    Maternal 6X Great Grandfather J1-ZS10441

    Target: SUPREEEEEME_scaled
    Distance: 1.9563% / 0.01956275
    33.6 Levant_Ashkelon_LBA
    18.4 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
    11.8 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
    10.0 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_BA
    9.0 Canary_Islands_Guanche
    8.4 FRA_IA
    7.6 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA
    1.2 CHN_Chuanyun_Historic

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  7. #4
    Hello, i am following this thread. I am J-M172 from Turkey, originating in Sivas. I seem to be L70. Nevgen predicts me as Z2177, while J2 admins predict me as PF5456. My matches are all PF5456. By the way, i looked at your spreadsheet. The 4 Turkmenistan samples are from the same guy, who is Persian. Check the kit names his ancestor name is H.Z. He stated his grandfather was Persian origin. It also seems that L70 Saltak Azerbaijanis are Talysh(Persian). I have an Azerbaijani Talysh match.
    Do you think L70 was of Israelite origin ? It may be, but my guess was it is West Anatolian Greek marker. L70 was found in Magna Graecia where Greeks colonized. It is hard to guess now, what it is, without ancient samples. But it seems to have an origin in the Med/Levant.
    Last edited by Emre Altug; 03-04-2020 at 07:48 PM.

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  9. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emre Altug View Post
    Hello, i am following this thread. I am J-M172 from Turkey, originating in Sivas. I seem to be L70. Nevgen predicts me as Z2177, while J2 admins predict me as PF5456. My matches are all PF5456. By the way, i looked at your spreadsheet. The 4 Turkmenistan samples are from the same guy, who is Persian. Check the kit names his ancestor name is H.Z. He stated his grandfather was Persian origin. It also seems that L70 Saltak Azerbaijanis are Talysh(Persian). I have an Azerbaijani Talysh match.
    Do you think L70 was of Israelite origin ? It may be, but my guess was it is West Anatolian Greek marker. L70 was found in Magna Graecia where Greeks colonized. It is hard to guess now, what it is, without ancient samples. But it seems to have an origin in the Med/Levant.
    L70 is older than both the Israelites or Greeks. It is spread out into many different ethnic groups.

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  11. #6
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    J-L70
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    J-L816

    Israel Jerusalem Star of David Israel South Africa
    Quote Originally Posted by Emre Altug View Post
    Hello, i am following this thread. I am J-M172 from Turkey, originating in Sivas. I seem to be L70. Nevgen predicts me as Z2177, while J2 admins predict me as PF5456. My matches are all PF5456. By the way, i looked at your spreadsheet. The 4 Turkmenistan samples are from the same guy, who is Persian. Check the kit names his ancestor name is H.Z. He stated his grandfather was Persian origin. It also seems that L70 Saltak Azerbaijanis are Talysh(Persian). I have an Azerbaijani Talysh match.
    Do you think L70 was of Israelite origin ? It may be, but my guess was it is West Anatolian Greek marker. L70 was found in Magna Graecia where Greeks colonized. It is hard to guess now, what it is, without ancient samples. But it seems to have an origin in the Med/Levant.
    I have another thread on Jews and J-L70 which, in my opinion, can suggest that J-L70 was present in the Levant during the time period of the Israelites:
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....Jews-and-J-L70

    One of the interesting things about J-L70 is that it appears to be significantly more common in Italy than Greece (at least from what I've seen on FTDNA). Within Italy itself (particularly Sicily), J-L70 is far more common on the West Coast of Sicily while being relatively rare in inland Sicily and on the East coast of Sicily.
    Last edited by SUPREEEEEME; 03-05-2020 at 01:33 PM.
    Other Y-DNA:

    Maternal 6X Great Grandfather J1-ZS10441

    Target: SUPREEEEEME_scaled
    Distance: 1.9563% / 0.01956275
    33.6 Levant_Ashkelon_LBA
    18.4 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
    11.8 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
    10.0 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_BA
    9.0 Canary_Islands_Guanche
    8.4 FRA_IA
    7.6 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA
    1.2 CHN_Chuanyun_Historic

  12. #7
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    638
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    J-L70
    mtDNA (M)
    H2a2a1

    I'm going to need to invest in a real Y-DNA test because all I have at the moment is a prediction that cannot be completely trusted. The information I have of my specific subclade so far doesn't really point towards it being of Jewish or Levantine origin.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5945646/

    "Finally, we explored the distribution of J2a-L397 and three derived lineages within it. J2a-L397 is tightly associated with a typical DYS445 6-repeat allele. This has been hypothesized as a marker of the Greek colonizations in the Mediterranean, based on its presence in Greek Anatolia and Provence (France), a region with attested Iron Age Greek contribution. All of our chromosomes in this clade were characterized also by DYS391(9), confirming their Anatolian Greek signature. We resolved the J2a-L397 clade to an unprecedented precision, with three internal markers which allow a finer discrimination than STRs. The ages of the three lineages (2.0–3.0 kya) are compatible with the beginning of the Greek colonial period, in the 8th century BCE. The three subclades have different distributions, with two (branches 57, 59) found both East and West to Greece, and one only in Italy (branch 58). As to Mediterranean Islands, J2a-L397 was found in Cyprus and Crete. Its presence as one of the three branches 57–59 will represent an important test.

    In Italy all three variants were found mainly along the Western coast (18/25), which hosted the preferred Greek trade cities. The finding of all three differentiated lineages in Locri excludes a local founder effect of a single genealogy. Interestingly, an important Greek colony was established in this location, with continuity of human settlement until modern times. The sample composed of the same subjects displayed genetic affinities with Eastern Greece and the Aegean also at autosomal markers. In summary, the distributions of branches 57–59 mirror the variety of the cities of origin and geographic ranges during the phases of the colonization process. Molecular signs of the Greek expansion are even more subtle. A peculiarity of our Greek markers is that they relate more to the Aegean and are poorly represented in mainland Greece. This is line with the archeologically documented two step process of establishment of Aegean colonies and subsequent outward colonizations. It is possible that the markers arose in Greek Anatolia."


    Y-DNA frequency.png
    Last edited by LTG; 03-05-2020 at 01:14 PM.

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  14. #8
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    J-L816

    Israel Jerusalem Star of David Israel South Africa
    Quote Originally Posted by LTG View Post
    I'm going to need to invest in a real Y-DNA test because all I have at the moment is a prediction that cannot be completely trusted. The information I have of my specific subclade so far doesn't really point towards it being of Jewish or Levantine origin.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5945646/

    "Finally, we explored the distribution of J2a-L397 and three derived lineages within it. J2a-L397 is tightly associated with a typical DYS445 6-repeat allele. This has been hypothesized as a marker of the Greek colonizations in the Mediterranean, based on its presence in Greek Anatolia and Provence (France), a region with attested Iron Age Greek contribution. All of our chromosomes in this clade were characterized also by DYS391(9), confirming their Anatolian Greek signature. We resolved the J2a-L397 clade to an unprecedented precision, with three internal markers which allow a finer discrimination than STRs. The ages of the three lineages (2.0–3.0 kya) are compatible with the beginning of the Greek colonial period, in the 8th century BCE. The three subclades have different distributions, with two (branches 57, 59) found both East and West to Greece, and one only in Italy (branch 58). As to Mediterranean Islands, J2a-L397 was found in Cyprus and Crete. Its presence as one of the three branches 57–59 will represent an important test.

    In Italy all three variants were found mainly along the Western coast (18/25), which hosted the preferred Greek trade cities. The finding of all three differentiated lineages in Locri excludes a local founder effect of a single genealogy. Interestingly, an important Greek colony was established in this location, with continuity of human settlement until modern times. The sample composed of the same subjects displayed genetic affinities with Eastern Greece and the Aegean also at autosomal markers. In summary, the distributions of branches 57–59 mirror the variety of the cities of origin and geographic ranges during the phases of the colonization process. Molecular signs of the Greek expansion are even more subtle. A peculiarity of our Greek markers is that they relate more to the Aegean and are poorly represented in mainland Greece. This is line with the archeologically documented two step process of establishment of Aegean colonies and subsequent outward colonizations. It is possible that the markers arose in Greek Anatolia."


    Y-DNA frequency.png
    I think at the moment, an Anatolian origin is likely?
    Other Y-DNA:

    Maternal 6X Great Grandfather J1-ZS10441

    Target: SUPREEEEEME_scaled
    Distance: 1.9563% / 0.01956275
    33.6 Levant_Ashkelon_LBA
    18.4 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
    11.8 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
    10.0 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_BA
    9.0 Canary_Islands_Guanche
    8.4 FRA_IA
    7.6 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA
    1.2 CHN_Chuanyun_Historic

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  16. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emre Altug View Post
    Hello, i am following this thread. I am J-M172 from Turkey, originating in Sivas. I seem to be L70. Nevgen predicts me as Z2177, while J2 admins predict me as PF5456. My matches are all PF5456. By the way, i looked at your spreadsheet. The 4 Turkmenistan samples are from the same guy, who is Persian. Check the kit names his ancestor name is H.Z. He stated his grandfather was Persian origin. It also seems that L70 Saltak Azerbaijanis are Talysh(Persian). I have an Azerbaijani Talysh match.
    Do you think L70 was of Israelite origin ? It may be, but my guess was it is West Anatolian Greek marker. L70 was found in Magna Graecia where Greeks colonized. It is hard to guess now, what it is, without ancient samples. But it seems to have an origin in the Med/Levant.
    Interesting information Emre. Sivas was an important greco-roman settlement, specially after Pompeo Magno's reorganization of Asia Minor. It's interesting if you link this information, with the study posted by LTG. Regards

  17. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by J.delajara View Post
    Interesting information Emre. Sivas was an important greco-roman settlement, specially after Pompeo Magno's reorganization of Asia Minor. It's interesting if you link this information, with the study posted by LTG. Regards
    Thanks for the info, you know my hometown better than me. I will buy a SNP Pack as soon as DNA day discounts start.

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