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Thread: J-L70 Presence in the Middle East-North Africa

  1. #11
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    Azerbaijan, Baku
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    Y-DNA (P)
    J1 P58>ZS1706>ZS7071
    mtDNA (M)
    J
    Y-DNA (M)
    O-M175 O2A1

    Great Seljuk Empire Azerbaijan Yerevan Khanate Iran Safavid Empire Mongolia
    Waiting for Big-Y J-L70 Azerbaijani Turk from Georgia. Morley predictor says it is J-L70
    Most distant known ancestor Qaraqoyunlu Turkmen Emir Saad, owner of the Chuxur Saad (Erivan province), Chieftain of the Turkoman Saadlu tribe (Black Sheep Turkomans) 14th century. Buried here : Hidden Content


    Azerbaijani Turkic Project
    Hidden Content

    Turkmenistan DNA Project
    Hidden Content

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  3. #12
    Registered Users
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    1,760
    Ethnicity
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    Y-DNA (P)
    J-L210
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c7a
    mtDNA (P)
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    Israel Jerusalem
    There is a J-PF5456 from Tunisia - don't know if Jewish or Muslim.
    הִנְנִי֩ מֵבִ֨יא אוֹתָ֜ם מֵאֶ֣רֶץ צָפ֗וֹן

    Jeremiah 31

    Other potential and/or likely recent lineages: J-L816, J-PF5456, E-FGC56023

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  5. #13
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    314
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Jewish
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    South African
    Y-DNA (P)
    J-L70
    mtDNA (M)
    HV1b2
    Y-DNA (M)
    J-L816

    Israel Jerusalem Star of David Israel South Africa
    Quote Originally Posted by StillWater View Post
    There is a J-PF5456 from Tunisia - don't know if Jewish or Muslim.
    From where (as in database)?
    Other Y-DNA:

    Maternal 6X Great Grandfather J1-ZS10441

    Target: SUPREEEEEME_scaled
    Distance: 1.9563% / 0.01956275
    33.6 Levant_Ashkelon_LBA
    18.4 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
    11.8 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
    10.0 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_BA
    9.0 Canary_Islands_Guanche
    8.4 FRA_IA
    7.6 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA
    1.2 CHN_Chuanyun_Historic

  6. #14
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    Israel Jerusalem
    Quote Originally Posted by SUPREEEEEME View Post
    From where (as in database)?
    FTDNA Haplotree
    הִנְנִי֩ מֵבִ֨יא אוֹתָ֜ם מֵאֶ֣רֶץ צָפ֗וֹן

    Jeremiah 31

    Other potential and/or likely recent lineages: J-L816, J-PF5456, E-FGC56023

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  8. #15
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    314
    Sex
    Ethnicity
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    Y-DNA (P)
    J-L70
    mtDNA (M)
    HV1b2
    Y-DNA (M)
    J-L816

    Israel Jerusalem Star of David Israel South Africa
    Quote Originally Posted by StillWater View Post
    FTDNA Haplotree
    Interesting - it must be a new addition. It could be either-or.
    Other Y-DNA:

    Maternal 6X Great Grandfather J1-ZS10441

    Target: SUPREEEEEME_scaled
    Distance: 1.9563% / 0.01956275
    33.6 Levant_Ashkelon_LBA
    18.4 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
    11.8 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
    10.0 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_BA
    9.0 Canary_Islands_Guanche
    8.4 FRA_IA
    7.6 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA
    1.2 CHN_Chuanyun_Historic

  9. #16
    Registered Users
    Posts
    314
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Jewish
    Nationality
    South African
    Y-DNA (P)
    J-L70
    mtDNA (M)
    HV1b2
    Y-DNA (M)
    J-L816

    Israel Jerusalem Star of David Israel South Africa
    Update: Thanks to the work of StillWater, we now know that J-L70 is present in Mountain Jews.
    Other Y-DNA:

    Maternal 6X Great Grandfather J1-ZS10441

    Target: SUPREEEEEME_scaled
    Distance: 1.9563% / 0.01956275
    33.6 Levant_Ashkelon_LBA
    18.4 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
    11.8 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
    10.0 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_BA
    9.0 Canary_Islands_Guanche
    8.4 FRA_IA
    7.6 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA
    1.2 CHN_Chuanyun_Historic

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  11. #17
    Registered Users
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    314
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Jewish
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    South African
    Y-DNA (P)
    J-L70
    mtDNA (M)
    HV1b2
    Y-DNA (M)
    J-L816

    Israel Jerusalem Star of David Israel South Africa
    Quote Originally Posted by LTG View Post
    Looking back at this image, it's actually very interesting - and we can perhaps make some observations from it.

    Firstly, of all the regions tested, Italy had the most J2a-L397 - 24. Interestingly, this is roughly on par with J1, J-M67, and J-M92 and J-L26(xM67) is significantly more frequent.

    Within the "Rest of Europe", it's interesting to note that they reported J1 as being 7 times more common than J-L397, with J-L397, J2a(xL26) and J-M92 being the lowest.

    Within Crete, J-L397 appears not to have been found (although we do know there is a presence there)

    Within the "Middle East and Arabia", I find it interesting how after J1 and J-L26(xM67), J-L397 and J2b-M12 are the next most common, being twice as common as J-M67(xM92).

    Within Turkey, we observe that J1, J-L26(xM67), and J-M67(xM92) are all more common than J-L397.

    Within Greece, J-L26(xM67), J-M67(xM92), and J2b are all more common than J-L397.

    Within Sardinia, J-L397 appears to be significantly less frequent than all the sub-haplogroups tested.
    Other Y-DNA:

    Maternal 6X Great Grandfather J1-ZS10441

    Target: SUPREEEEEME_scaled
    Distance: 1.9563% / 0.01956275
    33.6 Levant_Ashkelon_LBA
    18.4 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
    11.8 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
    10.0 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_BA
    9.0 Canary_Islands_Guanche
    8.4 FRA_IA
    7.6 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA
    1.2 CHN_Chuanyun_Historic

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  13. #18
    Banned
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    638
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    Y-DNA (P)
    J-L70
    mtDNA (M)
    H2a2a1

    Quote Originally Posted by SUPREEEEEME View Post
    Within the "Rest of Europe", it's interesting to note that they reported J1 as being 7 times more common than J-L397, with J-L397, J2a(xL26) and J-M92 being the lowest.
    I think this may have something do with the long-standing Jewish communities across Europe. Those that converted to Christianity may have been responsible for the spread of J1 into non-Mediterranean areas of the continent i.e., Germany, England, Poland and Russia. The "Rest of Europe" in the case of J-L397 applies to France.

    Quote Originally Posted by SUPREEEEEME View Post
    Within Crete, J-L397 appears not to have been found (although we do know there is a presence there)
    It was found in Crete but for some reason they didn't include it in the table that I posted. Here is what is said in the study:

    The ages of the three lineages (2.0–3.0 kya) are compatible with the beginning of the Greek colonial period, in the 8th century BCE. The three subclades have different distributions, with two (branches 57, 59) found both East and West to Greece, and one only in Italy (branch 58). As to Mediterranean Islands, J2a-L397 was found in Cyprus and Crete. Its presence as one of the three branches 57–59 will represent an important test.

    Quote Originally Posted by SUPREEEEEME View Post
    Within the "Middle East and Arabia", I find it interesting how after J1 and J-L26(xM67), J-L397 and J2b-M12 are the next most common, being twice as common as J-M67(xM92).

    Within Turkey, we observe that J1, J-L26(xM67), and J-M67(xM92) are all more common than J-L397.

    Within Greece, J-L26(xM67), J-M67(xM92), and J2b are all more common than J-L397.
    Do not forget to take into account total tested population sizes for each of the clades. If you look at it from a relative perspective then J-L397 is actually more common in Greece and Turkey then the other lineages. I do believe there is something to the "Anatolian Greek" theory of the authors but i'm going to need to delve deeper because i'm not really satisfied with the undetailed MorleyDNA prediction.

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  15. #19
    Registered Users
    Posts
    314
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Jewish
    Nationality
    South African
    Y-DNA (P)
    J-L70
    mtDNA (M)
    HV1b2
    Y-DNA (M)
    J-L816

    Israel Jerusalem Star of David Israel South Africa
    Quote Originally Posted by SUPREEEEEME View Post
    I have decided to create a thread to post my findings on where J-L70 is found in the MENA region and how many individuals I was able find.

    A couple months back I decided to draw up a spreadsheet of J-L70 individuals from manually searching through loads of FamilyTreeDNA projects. From the data, it was most common in Jews, then Italians, then English people - which somewhat matched up with FamilyTreeDNA's Haplotree (minus Jews). Ultimately, I decided against doing anything with this spreadsheet, as I realised the Haplotree should have the exact information - but here we are (I'm only discussing MENA groups - but if anyone wants me to post the whole spreadsheet, just ask). In this spreadsheet, I explicitly acknowledged Jewish descent (Ashkenazi, Sephardi etc...).

    I'm not going to post any kit numbers, but I do have them all on the spreadsheet. I explicitly checked that I had no duplicate kit numbers. Unfortunately there were some projects I could not access - oh well...
    I'll disclose ethnicity/tribe etc... where possible

    DISCLAIMER: If there are any errors, please let me know - and remember - I'm only human
    Most are subclades under J-L70, where there is uncertainty/doubt, I disclose it.

    THIS IS FAMILYTREEDNA ONLY

    Iraq:
    10 x J-CTS3601
    1 x J-CTS3601 (Kurdish)
    1 x J-CTS3601 (Arab)
    1 x J-FGC24630
    2 x J-CTS6061

    Lebanon
    5 x J-CTS3601

    Saudi Arabia
    1 x J-L70
    1 x J-PH2838
    1 x J-CTS3601

    Jordan
    1 x J-CTS3601

    Syria
    1 x J-CTS3601
    1 x J-L70 (Alawite)
    1 x J-FGC24630
    1 x J-Y128867
    1 x J-L70

    Azerbaijan
    1 x J-PH2725 (Saltak tribe)
    1 x J-PH2725
    1 x J-Z2177

    Turkey
    2 x J-L70
    1 x J-FGC24630
    1 x J-Z40004
    1 x J-FT133466
    2 x J-Z2177
    1 x J-M137

    Armenia
    4 x J-L70
    1 x J-PF5456
    1 x J-Z435

    Algeria
    1 x J-CTS3601

    Palestinian Territories
    1 x J-CTS3601
    1 x J-Z435

    Egypt
    1 x J-CTS3601

    Turkmenistan
    2 x J-L70
    2 x J-L1021

    Georgia
    1 x CTS3601

    Iran
    1 x J-Z2177

    Jews
    *Important to note: mostly name/surname based. Many "Sephardic" surnames were googled for confirmation (if that means anything). If they were on a JewishDNA project (I'll specify), I assumed they were of Jewish origin (whether that's right or wrong). Assume Ashkenazi unless told otherwise.

    Romania
    1 x J-P244

    Poland
    1 x J-Z45813
    5 x J-PF5456
    1 x J-Z39496
    5 x J-P244
    1 x J-BY37767
    2 x J-L70
    1 x J-FGC6734
    1 x J-L398
    1 x J-L396

    Ukraine
    2 x J-BY268
    3 x J-PF5456
    6 x J-L70
    1 x J-BY242
    3 x J-P244
    1 x J-Z435

    Russia
    2 x J-L70
    1 x J-BY268
    1 x J-PF5456

    Lithuania
    2 x J-PF5456
    1 x J-BY268

    Belarus
    1 x J-PF5456
    2 x J-BY268

    Germany
    1 x J-BY268
    1 x J-PF5456
    1 x J-BY96345 (on Sephardic group)
    3 x J-L70
    1 x J-Z40776

    Austria
    1 x J-L70
    1 x J-FGC21083

    Czech Republic
    1 x J-BY268

    Hungary
    1 x J-L70

    Dominican Republic
    1 x J-PH2725 (Found on JewishDNA project)

    Spain
    2 x J-PF5456 (Found on JewishDNA project)
    2 x J-PF5456 (Sephardic)
    2 x J-L70 (Sephardic surname)

    Italy
    1 x J-FGC24630 (Found on JewishDNA project)
    1 x J-Z2177 (Found on JewishDNA project)
    1 x J-BY76232 (Jewish origin)
    2 x J-L70 (Jewish origin)
    2 x J-PH185 (Jewish origin)

    Greece
    1 x J-L70 (Romaniote)

    Puerto Rico
    2 x J-PF5456 (Sephardic)
    2 x J-PF5456 (Found on JewishDNA project)

    Portugal
    1 x J-FGC6735 (Found on JewishDNA project)
    1 x J-L70 (Sephardic)
    2 x J-L70 (Sephardic surname)
    1 x J-BY71859 (Sephardic surname)

    Scotland
    1 x J-Z40772 (Found on JewishDNA project)

    Denmark
    1 x J-L70 (Found on JewishDNA project)

    Mexico
    1 x J-PF5456 (Sephardic surname)
    1 x J-S11348 (Jewish surname)

    Wales
    1 x J-L70 (Found on JewishDNA project)

    Colombia
    1 x J-FGC52118 (Sephardic surname)

    Unknown
    1 x J-Z2177 (Found on JewishDNA project)
    5 x J-L70 (Ashkenazi)
    1 x J-L396 (Ashkenazi)
    1 x J-Z39055 (Ashkenazi)
    1 x J-BY268 (Ashkenazi)


    While I'm here, I thought I may as well post all the frequencies of J-L70 that I have found from studies:
    - Var (which is Eastern Provence): 7.8%
    - Phokaia: 6.5%
    - Central Anatolia: 5.5%
    (https://bmcevolbiol.biomedcentral.co...471-2148-11-69)

    - Trapani: 9.09%
    - Mazara del Vallo: 11.11%
    - Alcamo: 8.33%
    - Troina: 10%
    - Ragusa: 3.57%
    (https://www.nature.com/articles/ejhg2008120)

    - Crete: 3.8%
    - Central Anatolia: 7.6%
    - Southern Anatolia: 7.6%
    (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...AlAjg-NPR7Y%3D)

    - Cyprus: 4.9%
    (https://investigativegenetics.biomed...323-016-0032-8)

    So yeah...
    I've found a few extra people to add - but can't seem to edit the post, so here they are:

    Iraq
    1 x J-Z435

    Jordan
    2 x J-Z435

    Saudi Arabia
    1 x J-PH185

    I haven't added them to the spreadsheet, but I got them from this project:
    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...frame=yresults

    Some general notes on things I've found out:
    - All the Jordanian individuals are from the Aljoun province
    - The Iraqi individual above is from Basra. 'Al-Tamimia'. Not sure if he's related to Banu Tamim:

    Banū Tamīm (Arabic: بَنُو تَمِيم‎) or Banī Tamīm (Arabic: بَنِي تَمِيم‎) is one of the tribes of Arabia, mainly present in Saudi Arabia, With a strong presence attested in Algeria[2][3], in Palestine, in Tunisia, and to a lesser extent in Libya following the Aghlabid dynasty[2]. Today, the word Tamim in Arabic means strong and solid.[4][5] It can also mean perfect.[6]
    Banu Tamim are an Adnanite tribe, which means they claim descent from the Ishmael of the Quran through Adnan.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Tamim

    - From my first post, two Syrians and one Iraqi are Bani Sakhr (بني صخر):
    Beni Sakhr is the name of a large Bedouin tribe living in Jordan. The Bani Sakhr migrated to central Jordan from the Hijaz in the late eighteenth century.[1]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bani_Sakher

    - The Kurdish individual we have is from the Talabani clan (عشيرة الطالباني) and is from Kirkuk.
    - The Iraqi Arab we have is Kinani - so I assume he's from Banu Kinanah (بنو كنانة):

    The Banu Kinanah (Arabic: بنو كنانة‎, romanized: Banū Kināna) or Bani Kināna are the largest Mudhari Adnanite tribe in the Hejaz and Tihama regions of western Saudi Arabia. Their original territory was located near the city of Mecca.[1] A number of modern-day tribes throughout the Arab world trace their lineage to the Banu Kinanah.[2]
    The tribe traces its ancestry to Ishmael, who married a woman of the Arab Jurhum tribe and settled in the vicinity of Mecca according to Islamic tradition.[3][4]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Kinanah

    - Assuming I've translated correctly, the Egyptian individual is from the Sinai.

    According to this project:
    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults

    We can add the following:

    Lebanon
    1 x J-M318 (Jbeil, Byblos)
    1 x J-M318 (Bkassine, South Lebanon)
    Last edited by SUPREEEEEME; 03-25-2020 at 12:44 PM.
    Other Y-DNA:

    Maternal 6X Great Grandfather J1-ZS10441

    Target: SUPREEEEEME_scaled
    Distance: 1.9563% / 0.01956275
    33.6 Levant_Ashkelon_LBA
    18.4 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
    11.8 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
    10.0 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_BA
    9.0 Canary_Islands_Guanche
    8.4 FRA_IA
    7.6 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA
    1.2 CHN_Chuanyun_Historic

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  17. #20
    Registered Users
    Posts
    314
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Jewish
    Nationality
    South African
    Y-DNA (P)
    J-L70
    mtDNA (M)
    HV1b2
    Y-DNA (M)
    J-L816

    Israel Jerusalem Star of David Israel South Africa
    Some more frequencies based on this paper:
    https://www.academia.edu/30091350/Y-...utheast_Europe

    Greeks 1.1%
    Macedonian-Greeks 1.8%
    Bosnia-Serbs 2.5%
    Bosnia-Croats 1.1%
    Croats 1.1%
    North-East-Italians 3%
    Ukrainians 1.1%
    Georgians 1.5%

    From this study:
    https://www.academia.edu/24625510/Di...etan_Neolithic
    Nea Nikomedeia 1.8%
    Sesklo and Dimini 3.5%
    Lerna and Franchthi Cave 1.8%
    Crete 2.6%
    Last edited by SUPREEEEEME; 04-04-2020 at 10:12 AM.
    Other Y-DNA:

    Maternal 6X Great Grandfather J1-ZS10441

    Target: SUPREEEEEME_scaled
    Distance: 1.9563% / 0.01956275
    33.6 Levant_Ashkelon_LBA
    18.4 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
    11.8 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
    10.0 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_BA
    9.0 Canary_Islands_Guanche
    8.4 FRA_IA
    7.6 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA
    1.2 CHN_Chuanyun_Historic

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