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Thread: J-L70 Presence in the Middle East-North Africa

  1. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrimir View Post
    Pardon, was the PH185* in Turkey the Pontic sample or the Nusayri(I'm assuming in Hatay region)?

    Sorry, I think you answered this already, but the data is a bit difficult to read for me, could you explain the basic findings for the Ph185 and sub-branches?
    The J-PH185* sample is the Pontic one. When running the kit through Eurogenes K13, he's closest to Armenians at a distance of 5.77 - whereas the Turkish DNA Project had him as:
    %11 Pomak_Bulgaria + %89 Turk_Eastern_Black_Sea_(Rize_&_Trabzon) @ 2,090887, which gives a better distance.

    You'll notice he forms a clade with the Saudi on YFull. When checking the FTDNA Haplotree, we can see he forms an even deeper clade with a Dagestani (which makes sense, in my opinion), with the Saudi being Basal to them.

    The sample at J-FGC32685 is Alawite/Nusayri (On Eurogenes K13 he is closest to Lebanese Muslims).
    Last edited by SUPREEEEEME; 06-18-2021 at 06:19 PM.
    Other Y-DNA:

    Maternal 6X Great Grandfather J1-ZS10441

    Target: SUPREEEEEME_scaled
    Distance: 2.2733% / 0.02273307
    37.6 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
    17.4 GRC_Helladic_MBA
    15.4 ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA
    7.8 DEU_MA
    7.0 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
    6.4 Canary_Islands_Guanche
    6.0 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
    1.6 PAK_Barikot_H
    0.8 CHN_Chuanyun_Historic

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  3. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPREEEEEME View Post
    The J-PH185* sample is the Pontic one. When running the kit through Eurogenes K13, he's closest to Armenians at a distance of 5.77 - whereas the Turkish DNA Project had him as:
    %11 Pomak_Bulgaria + %89 Turk_Eastern_Black_Sea_(Rize_&_Trabzon) @ 2,090887, which gives a better distance.

    You'll notice he forms a clade with the Saudi. When checking the FTDNA Haplotree, we can see he forms a clade with a Dagestani (which makes sense, in my opinion), with the Saudi being Basal to them.

    The sample at J-FGC32685 is Alawite/Nusayri (On Eurogenes K13 he is closest to Lebanese Muslims).
    Do you know of any other J2a Alawite samples as well?

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  5. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Man View Post
    Do you know of any other J2a Alawite samples as well?
    Unfortunately the only other one I know of is a J-L70 Syrian Alawite (not deeply tested).

    Principe or leorcooper19 might know of more.
    Other Y-DNA:

    Maternal 6X Great Grandfather J1-ZS10441

    Target: SUPREEEEEME_scaled
    Distance: 2.2733% / 0.02273307
    37.6 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
    17.4 GRC_Helladic_MBA
    15.4 ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA
    7.8 DEU_MA
    7.0 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
    6.4 Canary_Islands_Guanche
    6.0 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
    1.6 PAK_Barikot_H
    0.8 CHN_Chuanyun_Historic

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  7. #234
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    Dagestani Ph185?? Wow. I guess there's a lot of info that isn't on YFull. Could anyone perhaps screenshot or share that info from ftdna since their tree doesn't work for me at all?
    If a pontic source and a dagestani are basal with the saudi, or close, that's a very.. significant find, yes?

    And someone said there was a basal clade above L70 that was found as well?

  8. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrimir View Post
    Dagestani Ph185?? Wow. I guess there's a lot of info that isn't on YFull. Could anyone perhaps screenshot or share that info from ftdna since their tree doesn't work for me at all?
    If a pontic source and a dagestani are basal with the saudi, or close, that's a very.. significant find, yes?

    And someone said there was a basal clade above L70 that was found as well?
    This is the branch with the Dagestani:

    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ame=J-FT406725 (it takes a while to load)

    You can find the individual on the Dagestan Project:
    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...frame=yresults

    The Turkish individual falls here as well. The Saudi is Basal to their branch. So J-PH185 splits into two branches, the large J-FGC24630, and the small J-FT20070.

    As for their significance, I consider them to have a similar weight to the existing Saudi.

    As for a Basal clade above L70, I assume you're referring to the, what was, J-Z387*. On FamilyTreeDNA, there is a Sephardic Jew who is J-Z387*. There is a Sephardic branch there present in Eastern Sephardic and North African Sephardic Jews (effectively a Levantine Basal). Recently a new kit was uploaded to YFull that falls there as well (so they have a branch sibling to J-L70 and J-FGC35503). No idea as to his origins:

    https://yfull.com/tree/J-Y197827/

    So when looking at the live tree, the Sephardic Jew is Basal to that branch. So effectively, J-L70, J-FGC35503, and J-Y197827 all have Levantine Basal branches.
    Last edited by SUPREEEEEME; 06-18-2021 at 08:04 PM.
    Other Y-DNA:

    Maternal 6X Great Grandfather J1-ZS10441

    Target: SUPREEEEEME_scaled
    Distance: 2.2733% / 0.02273307
    37.6 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
    17.4 GRC_Helladic_MBA
    15.4 ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA
    7.8 DEU_MA
    7.0 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
    6.4 Canary_Islands_Guanche
    6.0 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
    1.6 PAK_Barikot_H
    0.8 CHN_Chuanyun_Historic

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  10. #236
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    mardin region

    Turkey Byzantine Empire Armenia Greece Syria Great Seljuk Empire
    id : YF86716 J-PH2725* New English person.
    Target: EmreAltug_scaled
    Distance: 1.3564% / 0.01356424
    17.6 TKM_Parkhai_MBA
    16.6 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
    15.0 HRV_Vucedol
    14.8 Levant_Megiddo_IA
    14.4 ARM_Areni_C
    4.8 EGY_Hellenistic
    4.8 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA_low_res
    3.6 MNG_Center_West_LBA_5
    3.0 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o
    1.6 HUN_Prescythian_IA
    1.4 Corded_Ware_Proto-Unetice_POL
    1.4 Levant_PPNC

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  12. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emre Altug View Post
    id : YF86716 J-PH2725* New English person.
    Happy to have such an upload - we should see J-Z39057 form (TMRCA of 3000 ybp). Within J-Z39057 is the Jewish J-Z39055, and then this individual falls under the young sibling branch to it.

    The question is raised as to how this branch wound up in Europe from the Southern Levant.
    Other Y-DNA:

    Maternal 6X Great Grandfather J1-ZS10441

    Target: SUPREEEEEME_scaled
    Distance: 2.2733% / 0.02273307
    37.6 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
    17.4 GRC_Helladic_MBA
    15.4 ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA
    7.8 DEU_MA
    7.0 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
    6.4 Canary_Islands_Guanche
    6.0 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
    1.6 PAK_Barikot_H
    0.8 CHN_Chuanyun_Historic

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  14. #238
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    Turkey Byzantine Empire Armenia Greece Syria Great Seljuk Empire
    An Iraqi, who has origins from Harput (Elazig), Turkey, and having a rare branch, L1021, is now in YFull.
    He is in the same subclade with the Zanjani from Turkmenistan.
    Finally we have this branch in YFull !
    Target: EmreAltug_scaled
    Distance: 1.3564% / 0.01356424
    17.6 TKM_Parkhai_MBA
    16.6 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
    15.0 HRV_Vucedol
    14.8 Levant_Megiddo_IA
    14.4 ARM_Areni_C
    4.8 EGY_Hellenistic
    4.8 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA_low_res
    3.6 MNG_Center_West_LBA_5
    3.0 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o
    1.6 HUN_Prescythian_IA
    1.4 Corded_Ware_Proto-Unetice_POL
    1.4 Levant_PPNC

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  16. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emre Altug View Post
    An Iraqi, who has origins from Harput (Elazig), Turkey, and having a rare branch, L1021, is now in YFull.
    He is in the same subclade with the Zanjani from Turkmenistan.
    Finally we have this branch in YFull !
    Thanks for the information Emre, do you have any further information about this person, is he Turkish, Armenian, Arab or Kurdish?. Thanks a lot in advance. Best Regards

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  18. #240
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    Israel Jerusalem Star of David Israel South Africa
    My impression is that his family has a tradition of Turkish descent on the paternal line - not a completely confirmed connection. Although if he forms a clade with one of the existing Turkish kits on YFull (which is possible, since J-L1021 does not exist on YFull), this would vindicate this tradition. When asking him to upload to YFull, I suggested that he add the flag of where he can trace back to via paper trail, which is Iraq.
    Other Y-DNA:

    Maternal 6X Great Grandfather J1-ZS10441

    Target: SUPREEEEEME_scaled
    Distance: 2.2733% / 0.02273307
    37.6 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
    17.4 GRC_Helladic_MBA
    15.4 ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA
    7.8 DEU_MA
    7.0 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
    6.4 Canary_Islands_Guanche
    6.0 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
    1.6 PAK_Barikot_H
    0.8 CHN_Chuanyun_Historic

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