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Thread: Sage Agasthya and Southern Migration

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    Post Sage Agasthya and Southern Migration

    Historically the far south still remembers Sage Agasthya and the Southern Migrations along with Yadu families. Some Velirs claim descend from these earliest inhabitants. The dating of which is a real tough given lack of aDNA and huge archaeological support.

    The story of the southern migration of the Velir from Dvaraka under the leadership
    of Agastya is narrated by Naccinarkkiniyar in his commentary on Tolkappiyam
    (payiram ; Porul.34). According to this legend, the gods congregated on Mount Meru
    as a result of which the earth tilted, lowering Meru and raising the southern quarter.
    The gods thereupon decided that Agastya was the best person to remedy this situation
    and requested him to proceed to the South. Agastya agreed and, on his way, visited
    ‘Tuvarapati’ (Dvaraka) and led the descendants of netu-muti-annal (Visnu or Krsna)
    including ‘eighteen kings, eighteen families of the Velir and the Aruvalar’ to the
    south, where they settled down ‘clearing the forests and cultivating the land’.

    This migration of agasityar is dated at anywhere between 1000 bc to 300 BC – tolkappiyar who was a contemporary/shishyan of agastiyar wrote tolkappiyam which is dated between 300 and 10th century bc.

    From Wikipedia ->

    According to the Tholkappiyam, the earliest work of Tamil literature, the Velirs came from the city of Dwarka under the leadership of sage Agastya and belonged to the Yadu clan.[1][6][7]

    Potsherds with early Tamil writing from the 2nd century BCE found in excavations in Poonagari, Jaffna bear several inscriptions, including the clan name "vela", a name related to "velir" from the ancient Tamilakam.[8]

    The Velir were a royal house of minor dynastic kings and aristocratic chieftains in Tamilakam in the early historic period of South India.[1][2] They were vassals and rivals of the Ventars (Chera, Chola and Pandya kings).[3] They had close relations with them through marriages and coronation rights.[4][5]


    Some say these velirs were called Ay-Velirs or ahirs
    One of the purana dating expert Nilesh Oak posted few possible dates for Mahabharata and their possibilities

    Y: H-M69 -> H-M82 -> SK1225 -> H-Z5888 -> H-Z5890 -> H-CTS8144 [CTS8144/PF1741/M5498] -> Z34531 (H1a1a4b3b1a8~)
    found 2875 BCE -> Jiroft/IVC Periphery 11459 Shahr-i-Sokte BA2
    mtDNA:U2a1a

    G25 Ancients Dist 0.79 IND_Roopkund_A 51.05 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 46.64 MAR_Iberomaurusian2.04PAK_Katelai_IA0.19 TKM_Gonur2_BA 0.08

    Lactose Persistence rs3213871 rs4988243 rs4988183 rs3769005 rs2236783
    found -> DA125, Kangju

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     client (03-06-2020)

  3. #2
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    Did all this occur in the Upside Down?

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     Jatt1 (10-21-2020)

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    Akattiyar is Tamil sage, maybe he migrate to North to teach Vedas.

    Aka-m - house, place, inside

    Aka-ttu- within, in the house

    Aka-tt-an - master of the house, house-holder

    C.W.Kathiraiver Pillai’s Dictionary (1910) (gloss in English added by me):
    aka-tt-i : (1) akattiya mun\ivan\ (‘Agastya, the sage’)
    (2) ul|l|-irukkir\a-van\ (‘one who is in’)
    (3) oru maram (‘Agasti grandiflora’).

    https://www.harappa.com/sites/defaul...astya_2009.pdf

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    According to Kamil Zvelebil, the sage Agastya, Akattiyan the Siddha, and Akatthiyar, the author of Akattiyam, were three or possibly four different persons of different eras, who over time became fused into one single person in the Tamil tradition.[58]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agastya#Tamil_texts
    Last edited by client; 03-06-2020 at 05:54 PM.

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     tipirneni (03-06-2020)

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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    Did all this occur in the Upside Down?
    It might have occurred Northward 12 or 13K BCE when the Kingship/clans etc was not very clear. but this is later recent movement south after Mahabharata.
    Y: H-M69 -> H-M82 -> SK1225 -> H-Z5888 -> H-Z5890 -> H-CTS8144 [CTS8144/PF1741/M5498] -> Z34531 (H1a1a4b3b1a8~)
    found 2875 BCE -> Jiroft/IVC Periphery 11459 Shahr-i-Sokte BA2
    mtDNA:U2a1a

    G25 Ancients Dist 0.79 IND_Roopkund_A 51.05 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 46.64 MAR_Iberomaurusian2.04PAK_Katelai_IA0.19 TKM_Gonur2_BA 0.08

    Lactose Persistence rs3213871 rs4988243 rs4988183 rs3769005 rs2236783
    found -> DA125, Kangju

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    Quote Originally Posted by client View Post
    Akattiyar is Tamil sage, maybe he migrate to North to teach Vedas.

    Aka-m - house, place, inside

    Aka-ttu- within, in the house

    Aka-tt-an - master of the house, house-holder

    C.W.Kathiraiver Pillai’s Dictionary (1910) (gloss in English added by me):
    aka-tt-i : (1) akattiya mun\ivan\ (‘Agastya, the sage’)
    (2) ul|l|-irukkir\a-van\ (‘one who is in’)
    (3) oru maram (‘Agasti grandiflora’).

    https://www.harappa.com/sites/defaul...astya_2009.pdf


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agastya#Tamil_texts
    Agasthya is the main sage that the whole of Dravidian Brahmins look for the earliest of their own.
    Y: H-M69 -> H-M82 -> SK1225 -> H-Z5888 -> H-Z5890 -> H-CTS8144 [CTS8144/PF1741/M5498] -> Z34531 (H1a1a4b3b1a8~)
    found 2875 BCE -> Jiroft/IVC Periphery 11459 Shahr-i-Sokte BA2
    mtDNA:U2a1a

    G25 Ancients Dist 0.79 IND_Roopkund_A 51.05 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 46.64 MAR_Iberomaurusian2.04PAK_Katelai_IA0.19 TKM_Gonur2_BA 0.08

    Lactose Persistence rs3213871 rs4988243 rs4988183 rs3769005 rs2236783
    found -> DA125, Kangju

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    Quote Originally Posted by tipirneni View Post
    Agasthya is the main sage that the whole of Dravidian Brahmins look for the earliest of their own.
    non brahmins have nothing to do with agasthya so they look for for egyptian mummies

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    Quote Originally Posted by client View Post
    non brahmins have nothing to do with agasthya so they look for for egyptian mummies
    lol, egyptian mummies are probably some migration that bough in the Gupta sound among ancient. We see it in Mauryan age which might be an Seleucid origin or probably even earlier during the Swat period.
    Y: H-M69 -> H-M82 -> SK1225 -> H-Z5888 -> H-Z5890 -> H-CTS8144 [CTS8144/PF1741/M5498] -> Z34531 (H1a1a4b3b1a8~)
    found 2875 BCE -> Jiroft/IVC Periphery 11459 Shahr-i-Sokte BA2
    mtDNA:U2a1a

    G25 Ancients Dist 0.79 IND_Roopkund_A 51.05 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 46.64 MAR_Iberomaurusian2.04PAK_Katelai_IA0.19 TKM_Gonur2_BA 0.08

    Lactose Persistence rs3213871 rs4988243 rs4988183 rs3769005 rs2236783
    found -> DA125, Kangju

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    Quote Originally Posted by client View Post
    Akattiyar is Tamil sage, maybe he migrate to North to teach Vedas.

    Aka-m - house, place, inside

    Aka-ttu- within, in the house

    Aka-tt-an - master of the house, house-holder

    C.W.Kathiraiver Pillai’s Dictionary (1910) (gloss in English added by me):
    aka-tt-i : (1) akattiya mun\ivan\ (‘Agastya, the sage’)
    (2) ul|l|-irukkir\a-van\ (‘one who is in’)
    (3) oru maram (‘Agasti grandiflora’).

    https://www.harappa.com/sites/defaul...astya_2009.pdf


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agastya#Tamil_texts
    He (Agastya) and his wife Lopamudra are the celebrated authors of hymns 1.165 to 1.191 in the Sanskrit text Rigveda and other Vedic literature.[2][3][4]

    Does that mean they lived during the time of Rig Veda, is it mentioned in Rig Veda that they wrote those hymns or during later times, Rigveda authorships were attributed to different Rishis?

    edit: ok, I think they compiled oral literature into writing during different time periods by different rishis at various places.
    Last edited by discreetmaverick; 03-06-2020 at 08:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tipirneni View Post
    It might have occurred Northward 12 or 13K BCE when the Kingship/clans etc was not very clear. but this is later recent movement south after Mahabharata.
    I am so confused by what you wrote , it defies logic.

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     Jatt1 (04-22-2020)

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    Quote Originally Posted by tipirneni View Post
    lol, egyptian mummies are probably some migration that bough in the Gupta sound among ancient. We see it in Mauryan age which might be an Seleucid origin or probably even earlier during the Swat period.
    I think you are right, swat sample show african admix, in harpaworld and there is tamil brahmi script found in egypt.


    But I think Vedic Agastya and the original Tamil character may have been different, but Tamil traditions slowly merged the two as Kamil Zvelebil thinks.

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