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Thread: are Irish, Scottish, English people all the same people?

  1. #1
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    are Irish, Scottish, English people all the same people?

    The two former ones spoke a Celtic language the latter a Germanic one. Why is this and how is it they are so closely related if they are not one people? What is the common root

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  3. #2
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    They're not the same, although overall there hasn't been that much of a fundamental genomic change since the Beaker people arrived in the 3rd millennium BC and replaced the previous inhabitants.

    In terms of y-dna, however, here are a few maps that show the Germanic (Anglo-Saxon and Viking) impact that went into making the English who they are.

    R1b-L21 Celtic vs R1b-U106 Germanic_British Isles and Ireland.jpg I-M253 Map.jpg
    Last edited by rms2; 03-07-2020 at 10:12 PM.

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    Please delete this post.
    Last edited by rms2; 03-07-2020 at 10:10 PM.

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    The shared root is all largely descend from NW European Early Bronze Age people. The movement of people since then has largely been NW Europeans moving to other bits of NW Europe.

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    Agree with Alan.
    Concerning BB's I think that their input in the Isles has been overrated. But their mixed descendants of BA, with a close enough autosomal admixture, some of them their successors, born in the Isles, other come from the continent, has finished the principal work, with light enough modification of auDNA. The Germanics has had true input, most in East and North-East, but their auDNA was not too different when considering the ancient components. In the detail, I think they presented other sub-groups of the old componants (Neolithic, diverse HG's and Steppe) but these differences are uneasy to show out.

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    I mean that the simplification: British people are for the most the 2200/2000 BC BB's descendants, as said by some scholars, is a bit exaggerated.

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    No, they’re not!

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    What is your point ? (I am not sure I understood it well)
    Thanks beforehand

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    Well, genetically, the peoples of the British Isles are quite similar. As I understand it, we are all composed mostly of Bell Beaker, Celtic, Anglo-Saxon, and Norse DNA, pretty much only differing in the extent and kind of Germanic ancestry. Southern English people are more like the Danes, whereas the native Irish are less Germanic but nevertheless have substantial Norwegian influence.
    23aM Ancestry Comp.: British & Irish100%
    MTA Modern Pop. (top 6): 1. Irish (3.59) 2. SE English (3.78) 3. SW English (4.46) 4. W Scottish (4.58) 5. N German (5.18) 6. Danish (5.22)
    MTA Ancient Pop. (top 3): 1. Celt & Saxon (1.60) 2. Vik. Danish & Celt (1.95) 3. Vik. Danish & Saxon (2.52)
    MTA Archaeo. Matches (top 4): 1. Bell Beaker Eng. (3.14) 2. Celt Hinxton Iron Age (3.66) 3. Post-Vik. Den. Odense (3.72) 4. Germanic Lombard (4.12)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Kildare View Post
    Well, genetically, the peoples of the British Isles are quite similar. As I understand it, we are all composed mostly of Bell Beaker, Celtic, Anglo-Saxon, and Norse DNA, pretty much only differing in the extent and kind of Germanic ancestry. Southern English people are more like the Danes, whereas the native Irish are less Germanic but nevertheless have substantial Norwegian influence.
    True that the 'waves' are shared through you could describe northern France exactly the same way as a mix of bell beaker, Celtic, Anglo-Saxons, viking etc. Belgium, southern Holland etc could be described pretty similarly. Parts of England overlap more with Benelux than they do with the Celtic fringe. I think the Celtic fringe probably overlaps better with NW France than it does with parts of SE England. So, its a continuum rather than the British Isles being a grouping apart.

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