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Thread: Shestani-Kraja

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exercitus View Post
    Well about Opoja and Gora might be helpful this Study (based in Selami Pulaha's work) concerning the anthroponymy in Opoja and Gora villages in the basis of the Defters of 1571 and 1591, from page 127-149!!

    https://www.academia.edu/14955188/Op...%C3%ABr_shekuj
    Lidhur me raportet e tyre, autorėt S.Islami, K.Frashėri, etj., shkruaj-nė: “Kėshtu, derisa mė parė, gjatė regjimit tė bashkėsive fshatare, fqinjė-sia shqiptare–sllave qe njė simbiozė paqėsore, tani me shthurjen e bashkė-sive dhe me lidhjen e marrėdhėnieve feudale, ajo u kthye nė njė burimgrindjesh tė vazhdueshme dhe konfliktesh tė shpeshta pėr tokė dhe pėr tėnėnshtruar njėri – tjetrin. Si pasojė e kėtyre grindjeve dhe konflikteve me shqiptarėt, fshatarėt sllavė filluan tė shpėrngulen edhe nė viset kodrinoremalore”. Dhe mė poshtė pohojnė: “Nė kėto krahina sllave, hapėn tokatė reja me anėn e prerjeve dhe tė pastrimit tė pyjeve. Mė tepėr se kudo, kydepėrtim duhet tė kėtė ndodhur nė krahinat e Shqipėrisė sė jugut. Kėtė etregojnė emrat me rrėnjėn sllave treb d.m.th., rrap pylli, qė mbajnė disafshatra malore si:Trebickė, Trebeshinė, Trebisht, Tėrbaē, etj. Njė depėrtim i tillė ndodhi nga territoret e Maqedonisė, si shtet qėkishte lulėzuar nė shekullin IV para erės sonė, nė kohėn e Filipit II.Popullata e kėtij shteti tė ri pėrbėhej nga fise ilire, trake dhe nga disa fisetė afėrta me grekėt. Por me dyndjen e popujve sllavė, kjo popullatė ilire-trakase-greke asimilohej, ashtu siē u asimilua edhe populli bullgar, meorigjinė tartare-mongole. Kėshtu, kishte ndodhur edhe nė viset e Gorės sėsotme. Fshatarėt maqedonas tani tė sllavizuar, qė ishin vendosur kėtu pėrshkak te pozitės gjeografike tė kėsaj ane, kėtė krahinė e kishin emėr-tuar:Gorė, e qė kur pėrkthehet nga sllavishtja nė shqipe d.m.th: mal,malėsi. Kurse banorėt quheshin goranė qė do tė thotė: malėsorė. Kyemėrtim mė vonė u pėrhap edhe nė Opojė e mė gjerė, dhe pėrdorėt edhesot e kėsaj ditė.
    Quite the statement from mister Qafleshi.

  2. #72
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    Regarding the Medieval Albanian Anthroponymic uniformity, take a look at this two Villages - Gika = Gjika - .

    1) Pllajnik, Opolje\Opoje (Southern Kosovo) year 1571, a Albanian Christian Village.

    Pllajnik, Opolja 1571.jpg

    https://www.google.com/maps/place/Pl...8!4d20.7055417



    2) Gavala, (Southern\Central Eubea) year 1474, a Albanian Christian Village.

    Gavala, Eubea 1474.jpg


    https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ga...7!4d24.0846491

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     Maleschreiber (03-21-2020)

  4. #73
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    Hello,
    If i may, i wanted to add something concerning the Albanians in Macedonia. I remember that Oliver Schmitt in his book regarding Skenderbeg, described the Castle of Modric & Svetigrad & Upper Dibra area etc as inhabited by Bulgarian people (based upon the Studies of different Historians; D.Gjorgiev, G. Palikruševa, A. Stojanovski, M. Sokoloski etc that have translated the Defters of the years1453, 1467, 1483 etc), personally i had not the chance to read those Defters because they are not so much 'accessible' by the public, meanwhile even I.Rexha has utilized some parts of those Defters !! Anyway, accidently few days ago i encountered this Study ГЕОГРАФИЈА НА НАСЕЛБИ - Општина Демир Хисар -, which has the list of the inhabitants of almost 100 villages around the Demir Hisar area (south\central Macedonia) in the basis of the Defter of 1467, so we are speaking about a region that is quite far away (toward eastern) from Modric, Diber\Debar, Struga etc . I knew from Rexha's work that Kicevo\Kercove area had a important Albanian Orthodox population, but i didn't ecxpected that other regions where also Inhabited by this ethnicity - considering what the abovementioned D.Gjorgiev, G. Palikruševa, A. Stojanovski, M. Sokoloski had concluded; that the ethnic borders between Bulgarians and Albanians in the XV were Dibra(city), Golo brdo(Golloborda), Western Struga, so practically corresponding with the Actual Macedonian-Albanian border area!!! -. Well after reading that Study regarding Demir Hisar region, i constated few facts;

    1) From the villages Zheleznets to Smilevo, in the hilly area in the east of Demir Hisar, from Sladuevo to Kocishte north of Demir Hisar there were a majority of Albanian-speaking Christian Orthodox community !!
    2) The settlments in the Valley (e.g Obednik, Demir Hisar, Slepche, Zhvan, Babino, Brezovo etc) had a majority Slavic-speaking Christian Orthodox community !!
    3) Worthed noted the presence of Vlachs in Golemo Ilino (names like Jon, Jonče, Vlaje, Šarko, Oavle ?) and Greeks (Grk) in Mrenoga.

    Few examples;

    Kocishta, north of Demir Hisar, year 1467 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ko...1!4d21.1716038

    Kocishte, Demir Hisar 1467.jpg

    Kocishte, north Demir Hisar 1467.jpg

    Smilevo south of Demir Hisar, year 1467 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sm...4!4d21.1108679

    Smilevo, Demir Hisar 1467.jpg

    Smilevo, south Demir Hisar 1467.jpg

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  6. #74
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    Nice findings! Why don't you start a new thread about Albanians in that area?

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     Dibran (04-06-2020)

  8. #75
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    Well, Malschreiber the problem is that i do not have this Books; 'Turski dokumenti za istorijata na makedonskiot narod', pod red. na Metodija Sokoloski, Aleksandar Stojanovski, https://searchworks.stanford.edu/view/1031938 which would provide me the necessary knowledge to open such a thread (ethnic Albanian Orthodox in Western Macedonia). The abovementioned Study about Demir Hisar analyze only 50 villages (sorry for my lapsus, also the area from Zheleznets to Smilevo it's in the western part of Demir Hisar!!), I.Rexha published only partly some Anthroponimic material regarding Polog\Pollog area, Kicevo\Kercove, Prilep, Bitola\Manastir etc, Nebi Dervishi has published also some Studies concerning Reka area, and every one has used the translation of Defters in ''Turski dokumenti za istorijata na makedonskiot narod' as Basic Material (although some Albanian Historians criticizes the 'inaccuracy' and arbitrary in translating\interpreting the typical Albanian Onomastics, by their Macedonian collegues!!).

    Anyway, both S.Pulaha and I.Rexha have noticed a interesant phenomenon that occured from the second part of the XV century among the Albanians, (in Kosovo - Dukagjin\Metohije and Gollak\Goljak etc - also in some parts of Montenegro) a Onomastic shift toward the typical Folk Albanian names, a kind of 'revival' of their old Anthroponymy!! Something that could be explained by the new context (Ottoman invasion and consolidation of their power), and consequently the decrease of the Slavic Orthodox Religious influence, which was one of the principal factors of such widespreaded typical Slavic Anthroponymy - both Folk and Christian's one - , among the Orthodox Albanians particularly those in direct contact with the Slavophone communities!!

    After i have read this Study regarding Demir Hisar area, i could simply confirm their deduction; take a look below, a Albanian son with typical Folk Onomastic and a father with Slavic & Christian Anthroponymy;

    - поп Герг;& Ѓорго, син на поп: Јин!, негов брат (ДЕМИР ХИСАР) -> Priest Gjergj & Gjorgo son of the Priest (other one), Gjin his brother(DEMIR HISAR)
    - Ѓон, брат на Андреја; Андреја, брат на Рајо;(МУРГАШЕВО) -> Gjon brother of Andrea, Andrea brother of Rajo (MUGAZEVO)
    - Музак, син на Черп (ВЛАШЦИ) -> Muzak son of Cerp! (VLASHCI)
    - Герг, син на Добрин(СУВО ГРЛО) -> Gjergj son of Dobrin (SUVO GRLA)
    - Гин, син на Никола(СЛАДУЕВО) -> Gjin son of Nikolla (SLADUEVO)
    - Гин, син на Сиве;(РАСТОЈЦА) -> Gjin son of Sive\Zive (RASTOJCA)
    - Герг, син на Тодор; & Коло, син на Којчин;(ПРИБИЛЦИ) -> Gjergj son of Todor & Kola son of Kojcin (PRIBILTSI)
    - Гон, син на Добре(ОБЕДНИК) -> Gjon son of Dobre (OBEDNIK)
    - Гин, син на Драгише; Продан, негов брат;(МРЕНОГА) -> Gjin son of Dragisha, Prodan his brother (MRENOGA)
    - Бардо!, син на Богдан; (ЕДИНАКОВЦИ) -> Bardh son of Bogdan (EDINAKOVCI)
    - Герг, син на Лазор(ГОЛЕМО ИЛИНО) -> Gjergj son of Llazor (GOLEMO ILINO)
    - Гин, син на Павел; & Ѓон, син на Бонде; (ВИРОВО) -> Gjin son of Pavel & Gjon son of Bogde (VIROVO)
    - Гон, син на Жан;(ВЕЛМЕВЦИ) -> Gjon son of Zhan (VELMEVTSI)
    - Микше, син на Добрин; & Герг, син на Баштре;(БОИШТЕ) -> Menkshe son of Dobrin & Gjergj son of Bashtre! (BOISHTE)
    - Герг, син на Степан(БАЗЕРНИК) -> Gjergj son of Stepan (BAZERNIK)
    etc !!

  9. #76
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    In this short article "Анализа на неколку аспекти од поединечниот фискален пописен дефтер за Битолската Нахија 1467-1468" is mentioned a old Tosk Albanian village Древеник\Drevenik (which is located precisely in the East of Demir Hisar, in a hilly area.. !!!)https://www.google.com/maps/place/Dr...7!4d21.2960536, generally is considered by the Macedonian Historians that the muslim Albanians are immigrants\colonizers that came in this area during the XVIII century.... https://mk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%94...BD%D0%B8%D0%BA


    Now the guy who wrote that article "discovered" some incongruences between the official Historical Macedonian version and the data's obtained by the Defter of Manastir\Bitola 1467-1468, concretely;


    Macedonian
    1) Куриозитет во овој попис претставува с. Древеник кое има 22 семејства, 1 неженет и 1 вдовица. ..... . Застапени се имињата: Ѓерг, Ѓон, Прогон, Гин, Ишкор итн. Може да се согледа дека овие имиња се всушност карактеристични и типични за албанскиот етницитет пред најголемиот дел од албанската популација да биде исламизиран.
    English
    1)Curiosity in this census represents the village. Drevnik which has 22 families, 1 single and 1 widow. ...... The names are: Gjergj, Gjon, Progon, Gjin, Skur\Zgur etc. It can be seen that these names are actually characteristic and typical of the Albanian ethnicity before the majority of the Albanian population is Islamized.


    His deduction;

    Macedonian
    2) ...Оттука би можело да се извлече заклучок дека албанското население било присутно на овие терени и како православно население кое подоцна се исламизирало и во суштина било домородно население кое повеќе или помалку се вклопувало во општата рамка на останатата христијанска популација од XV век на овие територии. Овој податок директно навлегува за во полемиката за тоа дали Албанците се домородно население или се колонизирани ......!!

    English
    2)... It can be deduced from this that the Albanian population was present in these areas and as an Orthodox population that later Islamized and was essentially an indigenous population that more or less fitted into the general framework of the rest of the 15th century Christian population. in these territories. This fact goes directly into the controversy over whether Albanians are indigenous or colonizers ...... !!

    So it means clearly that the today tiny Muslim Albanian minority in that area are is in fact the succesor\descendants of a much more numerous community of Orthodox Albanians... No immigrants no colonizers here...just a gradual assimilation of a big part of Christian Albanians, local inhabitants !!

  10. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    Perhaps it has something to do with the movement of people away from the region.. The village of Gurrėzė for example had almost 100 inhabitants during the late 1950s, but today there are less than 10 inhabitants. Also in Ljare, almost 300 people had migrated away since the 1940s. The loss of people may correlate with a partial, or even full, loss of identity in this case as the sense of community is reduced. Some of it may also have to do with the government or nationalist movements by pro-Serbs as is shown in Marin's documentary.

    Godinje was inhabited by Catholic Albanians who settled in the area during the 16th and 18th centuries. It is divided into 4 brotherhoods; Nikači (Nikēi), Perazići (Peraj) and Lekovići (Lekaj) and Velovići (Velaj). Both the Nikači and Perazići arrived from Kelmend (Nikē) during the 16th Century whilst the Lekovići and Velovići are believed to have come from Dinosha in Gruda during the 18th Century. Today the inhabitants identify as Montenegrins and are Orthodox. Though some of the Vela migrated away from Godinje prior to assimilation and now live in other villages of Shestan, where they identify as Albanian and are Muslim.
    I don't know if you've seen this already, but here is a small documentary on Godinje by Serbian media, which features some Lekovici individuals. Not so sure they are aware of their Albanian origins anymore. One of the guys in the doc I believe the guy named Janko Lekovic is deceased (RIP). The doc is by Serbian media, so it's certainly not nuanced and is probably slanted / wrong on a lot, but nonetheless I still found it interesting. Only drawback is it's in Serbian, but you can kinda pick some things up here and there from context.


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  12. #78
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    Interesting video.

    Btw, Lekovici from Godinje have tested with 23andme and are CTS9219, so most likely related to Lulgjuraj.

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  14. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keqa View Post
    Interesting video.

    Btw, Lekovici from Godinje have tested with 23andme and are CTS9219, so most likely related to Lulgjuraj.
    Yeah isaw they're R1B so probably related to some lulgjuraj

  15. #80
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    Thanks for the videos gjenetiks! They're really informative.

    So, about the Kryethi tribe it seems that they expanded themselves in many areas. They emigrated to Zadar first and then they moved to Cyprus where the surname still exists today as Groutas. From there they even established themselves in the Ottoman court as diplomats of European states. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Crutta even went to Poland and established his line there (he became ennobled).

    What's interesting is that when I was writing the article about Kryethi I came upon the "Krutta" surname in Poland and I thought that they just sounded the same. Little did I know that it was part of the loooong journey of an Albanian tribe from the coast of northern Albania. Here's a landmark that bears his name in Gmina Belsk Duży
    , Poland.

    lewiczyn.jpg

    Wouldn't it be very interesting if there was a project that would map the genealogies of all the Krytha/Krutta/Groutas today from coastal Ulqin to rural Poland?
    Last edited by Maleschreiber; 04-01-2020 at 01:42 PM.

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