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Thread: Looking for North Italian kits

  1. #21
    Registered Users
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    73
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    Trentino-SŘdTirol
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    Alpine
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    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-U106
    mtDNA (M)
    H2a2a1g

    Austrian Empire Republic of Venice Italy Trentino Alto Adige European Union
    I think picture of my grandfather (mocheno branch) can show the result:

    Photo11500072-Enhanced-Colorized.jpg

    Photo11500044-Comparison.jpg
    Last edited by Diego.M˛chen; 09-24-2020 at 11:45 AM.
    My results:

    YDNA: R1b-U106 --> R-Z2265 --> BY30097 --> Z18 (positive to Z16 and Z14) --> FGC79182 --> Z17 --> Z372 --> S4037 --> CTS5860 (positive). First known ancestor : Simone L******, married in Mala (Fersental - italian Tirol) in 1537.

    mtDNA: H2a2a1g firs known ancestor: Lucia Tomasi born in Bedollo (italian Tirol) in early 1700 years.

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Diego.M˛chen For This Useful Post:

     Nino90 (09-24-2020)

  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diego.M˛chen View Post
    using G25 or direct to GEDmatch?
    If do you mean from G25, can you please give me "SOURCE" datas? I'm not still so able to understand which datas i have to use.
    Can you run your coordinates with these

    CHE_IA,0.125205,0.153345,0.050534,-0.003876,0.049548,-0.005578,0.0047,-0.002077,0.014726,0.033896,0.001786,0.016335,-0.016353,-0.008945,0.001764,-0.001591,0.009518,0.001647,0.002514,-0.006128,0.005241,0.005688,-0.012078,-0.004338,0.000958
    Imperial_Roman_East_Med,0.106377125,0.147674875,-0.017614625,-0.051397375,0.0081295417,-0.0182556667,-0.0013610417,-0.0047400833,0.0001449167,0.0203193333,0.002841875 ,0.002141875,-0.0054137083,-0.0023854583,-0.00744775,-0.0005302917,0.0039821667,0.00097125,0.00277575,-0.004596,-0.0031455833,0.002617375,-0.0008679167,-0.0008334167,0.000299375
    Germanic_MA:HUN_MA_Szolad_Northern_Profile,0.13307 8,0.13108783 33,0.0624134167,0.0544255,0.0387505833,0.018569333 3,0.0040538333,0.00613425,0.0007328333,-0.0023539167,-0.0070231667,3.65E-03,-0.00894425,-0.00611275,0.0191929167,0.0049169167,-0.0060086667,-0.000454,0.003991,0.0051795,0.0078923333,0.0055952 5,0.000267,0.012351,-0.0002395
    Slav_MA:HUN_Avar_Szolad:Av2,0.134311,0.126941,0.08 1458,0.065569,0.035391,0.033746,0.00987,0.005769,0 .004704,-0.02278,-0.002436,-0.005395,0.01219,0.020643,-0.015201,-0.003845,0.005867,0.004561,0.008673,5e-04,0.001497,-0.00272,0.013804,-0.007109,0.002634

  4. #23
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    German
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    I-M253

    Germany Prussia
    Quote Originally Posted by Diego.M˛chen View Post
    in reality not so much, i mean, is not so simple to determinate this distance.
    I try to add this map to explain what i mean.

    My direct "mocheno" ancestor, traced in early 1500, and his descendants has settled in Fersental till early 1900.
    So the whole branch mixed sometimes with italian speaker an sometimes with other german speaker.

    This happened still for other "non-mocheno" branches of my family.

    for example, one of my mother's branch (who mainly comes from an other valley of Trentino) comes from the PinŔ plateau (just in part of Fersental).
    In this PinŔ plateau, today pepople speak italian, but in the past (untill the end of 1700) there where people speaking German, this because in this areas has settled same
    people who colonized Fersental. So we could afford that still my mother has german ancestors, and this fact happened scattered in all my family tree.

    I want to show this map, it is hasn't a good resolution, but you can appreciate mainly german settlement of trentino and north veneto in a period that go back 1800-1700 century. If you want to refer to a modern map, let's take Garda Lake and Trient as reference points.

    Attachment 39798
    Thanks for the map, it seems Cimbrian settlement in Verona was more widespread than i initially thought. I have a hypothesis that the Central European admixture that many northeastern Italians, especially in the northern- and easternmost parts of the region, may be related to medieval movements of Austro-Bavarian people into the region. Germanic uniparentals such as I-M253 are notably higher in northeastern Italy than in other parts of northern Italy. What do you think?

  5. #24
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    Y-DNA (P)
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    mtDNA (M)
    H2a2a1g

    Austrian Empire Republic of Venice Italy Trentino Alto Adige European Union
    Target: Diego_scaled
    Distance: 2.3604% / 0.02360387
    47.8 CHE_IA
    32.2 Imperial_Roman_East_Med
    20.0 Germanic_MA:HUN_MA_Szolad_Northern_Profile

    Distance to: Diego_scaled
    0.04048554 CHE_IA
    0.07901202 Imperial_Roman_East_Med
    0.08874939 Germanic_MA:HUN_MA_Szolad_Northern_Profile
    0.12509701 Slav_MA:HUN_Avar_Szolad:Av2

    scaled right? What is it CHE_IA?
    My results:

    YDNA: R1b-U106 --> R-Z2265 --> BY30097 --> Z18 (positive to Z16 and Z14) --> FGC79182 --> Z17 --> Z372 --> S4037 --> CTS5860 (positive). First known ancestor : Simone L******, married in Mala (Fersental - italian Tirol) in 1537.

    mtDNA: H2a2a1g firs known ancestor: Lucia Tomasi born in Bedollo (italian Tirol) in early 1700 years.

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Diego.M˛chen For This Useful Post:

     Helves (09-24-2020),  Token (09-24-2020)

  7. #25
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    H2a2a1g

    Austrian Empire Republic of Venice Italy Trentino Alto Adige European Union
    You're welcome! Yes in the past germanic areas were bigger.

    Local historyan are quite agree that main movement from Bavaria, Vorarlberg, Austrian Tirol (Inn valley), Bohemia (south) started at the beginning of sec. XI.
    Became intense in the period from XIV to XVI. This wasn't a single emigration movement, but happened several times from this different areas.
    This person were called to work, clean and plough wild fields in the closest and dispersed areas, by feudal authority of Trient Bishop.
    This about Trentino late history.

    I think, but i'm not sure, this happened not only in trentino, but in other areas in norteast Italy. And this facts could let nordic traces in local population, but still previous invasions, let traces. Franks, Longobards, Alemans (Bavarian mainly in actual Alto-Adige SŘdTirol).
    My results:

    YDNA: R1b-U106 --> R-Z2265 --> BY30097 --> Z18 (positive to Z16 and Z14) --> FGC79182 --> Z17 --> Z372 --> S4037 --> CTS5860 (positive). First known ancestor : Simone L******, married in Mala (Fersental - italian Tirol) in 1537.

    mtDNA: H2a2a1g firs known ancestor: Lucia Tomasi born in Bedollo (italian Tirol) in early 1700 years.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Diego.M˛chen For This Useful Post:

     Token (09-24-2020)

  9. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diego.M˛chen View Post
    Target: Diego_scaled
    Distance: 2.3604% / 0.02360387
    47.8 CHE_IA
    32.2 Imperial_Roman_East_Med
    20.0 Germanic_MA:HUN_MA_Szolad_Northern_Profile

    Distance to: Diego_scaled
    0.04048554 CHE_IA
    0.07901202 Imperial_Roman_East_Med
    0.08874939 Germanic_MA:HUN_MA_Szolad_Northern_Profile
    0.12509701 Slav_MA:HUN_Avar_Szolad:Av2

    scaled right? What is it CHE_IA?
    Thanks. Yes scaled.

    CHE_IA is an Iron Age sample from Switzerland dated to around 100BC. Either Rhaetian or Helvetii IMO.
    Last edited by Helves; 09-24-2020 at 02:21 PM.

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     Diego.M˛chen (09-24-2020)

  11. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diego.M˛chen View Post
    Target: Diego_scaled
    Distance: 2.3604% / 0.02360387
    47.8 CHE_IA
    32.2 Imperial_Roman_East_Med
    20.0 Germanic_MA:HUN_MA_Szolad_Northern_Profile

    Distance to: Diego_scaled
    0.04048554 CHE_IA
    0.07901202 Imperial_Roman_East_Med
    0.08874939 Germanic_MA:HUN_MA_Szolad_Northern_Profile
    0.12509701 Slav_MA:HUN_Avar_Szolad:Av2

    scaled right? What is it CHE_IA?
    Northeastern Italian averages for comparison:

    Target: Italian_Veneto
    Distance: 1.2059% / 0.01205914
    44.8 CHE_IA
    33.2 Imperial_Roman_East_Med
    13.4 Germanic_MA
    8.6 Slav_MA

    Target: Italian_Northeast
    Distance: 1.1453% / 0.01145319
    36.2 CHE_IA
    31.0 Imperial_Roman_East_Med
    17.0 Slav_MA
    15.8 Germanic_MA

    Target: Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
    Distance: 1.3756% / 0.01375550
    49.2 CHE_IA
    28.0 Imperial_Roman_East_Med
    16.4 Germanic_MA
    6.4 Slav_MA

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     Diego.M˛chen (09-24-2020)

  13. #28
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    G-L497

    Italy
    5 G25 results 100% from Carnia/Friuli/Italy:

    Carnia_G25.jpg

  14. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to asquecco For This Useful Post:

     Diego.M˛chen (09-24-2020),  Grabovio (09-24-2020),  Helves (09-24-2020),  Token (09-24-2020)

  15. #29
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    I-CTS6433
    mtDNA (M)
    H13c1a

    Mine (roots in Veneto-Friuli border area and Piedmont) :

    Target: Grabovio_scaled
    Distance: 3.3488% / 0.03348754
    38.2 CHE_IA
    30.8 Germanic_MA
    27.8 Imperial_Roman_East_Med
    3.2 Slav_MA

    Things get interesting when I replace Germanic_MA with proper Langobard source :

    Target: Grabovio_scaled
    Distance: 3.2212% / 0.03221169
    51.6 HUN_MA_Szolad
    29.2 CHE_IA
    19.2 Imperial_Roman_East_Med

    or CHE_IA with Italic input (Adriatic Veneti hail from Proto-Villanovan) :

    Target: Grabovio_scaled
    Distance: 2.8899% / 0.02889920
    52.4 HUN_MA_Szolad
    30.2 ITA_Rome_Latini_IA
    14.4 Imperial_Roman_East_Med
    3.0 Slav_MA

    Either way, looks like Late Antiquity/Middle Ages played a major role here with good chances of population discontinuity in most of the plain.

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  17. #30
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    Alpine
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    mtDNA (M)
    H2a2a1g

    Austrian Empire Republic of Venice Italy Trentino Alto Adige European Union
    Thank to all guy! That's very interesting (sorry i'm still a noob at the moment).

    So it looks i don't care "slav" but my "german" side is quite higher than other NE-italians samples. So my mochen origins shifted it up.

    It add up.

    If it could improve, i rebuilt my ancestors tree, i found almost 550 people. Only circa 10 of them were born just 20km out actual trentino border (Veneto), other circa 8 of them were born 100km out the border (Alto Adige).

    So i think i'm a good sample as well.
    Last edited by Diego.M˛chen; 09-24-2020 at 02:29 PM.
    My results:

    YDNA: R1b-U106 --> R-Z2265 --> BY30097 --> Z18 (positive to Z16 and Z14) --> FGC79182 --> Z17 --> Z372 --> S4037 --> CTS5860 (positive). First known ancestor : Simone L******, married in Mala (Fersental - italian Tirol) in 1537.

    mtDNA: H2a2a1g firs known ancestor: Lucia Tomasi born in Bedollo (italian Tirol) in early 1700 years.

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