Page 27 of 28 FirstFirst ... 1725262728 LastLast
Results 261 to 270 of 276

Thread: The Genomic Formation of Human Populations in East Asia preprint

  1. #261
    Registered Users
    Posts
    76
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Kale View Post
    When it comes to Tianyuan there's also the unusual connection with Goyet (and to some extent Yana relative to MA1) to take into account.
    If we consider Tianyuan as representative of a wider-spread Northern East Asian population that contributed to Goyet, ANE, and modern/recent East Asians, it comes out to a quite low level, I'd say no more than 20% to any population (East-Asian, Goyet, Yana, or otherwise).
    Interesting, would you have the same calculation with Onge handy? It seems unlikely that Onge themselves contributed 80% of modern East Asian ancestry but I guess this Onge affinity in part means non-Tianyuan East Eurasian/Asian?
    Last edited by Max_H; 08-01-2020 at 03:00 PM.

  2. #262
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,719
    Sex
    Omitted

    Yes indeed, not really Onge-specifically, just something in the general Onge/Hoabinhian/Oceanian(-Densiovan) category.

    Last run I did had...
    Goyet = 8% Tianyuan
    Gravettians = 5% Tianyuan
    MA1 = 2% Tianyuan, 29% Onge-like
    Yana = MA1-like + 4% Tianyuan
    'East Asian' (non-ANE parts of Boisman and NAM) = 16% Tianyuan, 84% Onge-like
    Iran_N = 17% East Asian amongst other things.

    My general hypothesis is an initial North .vs. South divide in Asia. First in the North is Tianyuan-like, then I guess after the CI eruption which devastated the Western steppe Onge-like group moves up from Central Asia absorbing whoever was left, and then generic paleo-Euro group expands absorbing them shortly after creating ANE. Further East Yana picks up more Northern ancestry. A separate South to North movement largely replaces the Tianyuan ancestry in East Asia.
    I don't know how to explain Tianyuan ancestry in Europe bypassing Kostenki and Sunghir. Maybe it was more Northern? Siberia > Scandinavia > then South into Central-Europe?
    Last edited by Kale; 08-01-2020 at 08:07 PM.
    Collection of 14,000 d-stats: Hidden Content Part 2: Hidden Content Part 3: Hidden Content PM me for d-stats, qpadm, qpgraph, or f3-outgroup nmonte models.

  3. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Kale For This Useful Post:

     Max_H (08-02-2020),  Megalophias (08-02-2020),  parasar (08-02-2020),  tipirneni (08-02-2020)

  4. #263
    Registered Users
    Posts
    919
    Sex
    Location
    Central Florida
    Ethnicity
    Aegean Greek + NW Euro
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    J-L26
    mtDNA (M)
    J1b1a

    Greece United States of America
    Does CHG have that eastern stuff, too, or just Iran N? If it's not AASI-related, maybe it came as part of the package with ANE into the Iranian Plateau. Though it would be odd if CHG and EHG didn't have the same affinity since I can only imagine all of these groups formed as a result of the same ANE radiation.
    Ελευθερία ή θάνατος.

  5. #264
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,719
    Sex
    Omitted

    Yes CHG certainly does also. I'm not convinced CHG is anything special, just Iran + Pinarbasi + EHG.

    I do have something kind of crazy I want to try though...
    So people generally consider Iran_N to be Basal + West + ANE + excess East and K14 and co. to be just West.
    I think it's rather Iran_N = West + ANE + excess East and K14 and co. as West + Ust_Ishim.
    I'm wondering if Iran_N and ANE can be from the same Western branch, and ANE pulls to paleo-Europe because of shared Ust_Ishim ancestry. Then have the East + ANE in Iran consolidated by an Ust_Kyakhta like group?
    Last edited by Kale; 08-01-2020 at 08:13 PM.
    Collection of 14,000 d-stats: Hidden Content Part 2: Hidden Content Part 3: Hidden Content PM me for d-stats, qpadm, qpgraph, or f3-outgroup nmonte models.

  6. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Kale For This Useful Post:

     Megalophias (08-02-2020),  Michalis Moriopoulos (08-01-2020),  parasar (08-02-2020),  tipirneni (08-02-2020),  traject (08-03-2020)

  7. #265
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,013
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Kale View Post
    Yes CHG certainly does also. I'm not convinced CHG is anything special, just Iran + Pinarbasi + EHG.

    I do have something kind of crazy I want to try though...
    So people generally consider Iran_N to be Basal + West + ANE + excess East and K14 and co. to be just West.
    I think it's rather Iran_N = West + ANE + excess East and K14 and co. as West + Ust_Ishim.
    I'm wondering if Iran_N and ANE can be from the same Western branch, and ANE pulls to paleo-Europe because of shared Ust_Ishim ancestry. Then have the East + ANE in Iran consolidated by an Ust_Kyakhta like group?
    If you would like to test hypotheses like these, its better to use qpGraph. Nowadays with the new implementation even very complex graphs go through in ~15 seconds. Try your hand at it!
    Quoted from this Forum:

    "Which superman haplogroup is the toughest - R1a or R1b? And which SNP mutation spoke Indo-European first? There's only one way for us to find out ... fight!"

  8. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Ryukendo For This Useful Post:

     Michalis Moriopoulos (08-01-2020),  Psynome (08-02-2020)

  9. #266
    Registered Users
    Posts
    919
    Sex
    Location
    Central Florida
    Ethnicity
    Aegean Greek + NW Euro
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    J-L26
    mtDNA (M)
    J1b1a

    Greece United States of America
    Indeed, and it would be interesting to see if Kale could reproduce the Tianyuan-heavy results of the recent East Asian studies. I think, Kale, that you've made it clear that you believe something more on the Onge side really is the better fit for the majority of modern East Asian ancestry.

    Actually, I'm getting some deja vu there. I might have encouraged you to do that before months ago.
    Ελευθερία ή θάνατος.

  10. #267
    Registered Users
    Posts
    247
    Sex
    Omitted

    Some Dstats comparing modern Asian affinity to either Andaman/Onge or Tianyuan. No one prefers Tianyuan, although the attraction to Andaman is relatively weak as well for most.

    result: Primate_Chimp Han.DG Indian_GreatAndaman_100BP.SG China_Tianyuan -0.0130 -2.262 26011 26697 508552
    result: Primate_Chimp Korean.DG Indian_GreatAndaman_100BP.SG China_Tianyuan -0.0185 -3.122 25938 26916 508541
    result: Primate_Chimp Cambodian.DG Indian_GreatAndaman_100BP.SG China_Tianyuan -0.0250 -4.289 25694 27012 508510
    result: Primate_Chimp Thai.DG Indian_GreatAndaman_100BP.SG China_Tianyuan -0.0248 -4.110 25730 27038 508520
    result: Primate_Chimp Igorot.DG Indian_GreatAndaman_100BP.SG China_Tianyuan -0.0149 -2.421 25926 26712 508509
    result: Primate_Chimp Even.DG Indian_GreatAndaman_100BP.SG China_Tianyuan -0.0165 -2.856 25784 26650 508554
    result: Primate_Chimp Dusun.DG Indian_GreatAndaman_100BP.SG China_Tianyuan -0.0210 -3.305 25694 26796 508491
    result: Primate_Chimp Dai.DG Indian_GreatAndaman_100BP.SG China_Tianyuan -0.0109 -1.958 26444 27027 514800
    result: Primate_Chimp Ami.DG Indian_GreatAndaman_100BP.SG China_Tianyuan -0.0133 -2.128 26003 26706 508526
    result: Primate_Chimp Tu.DG Indian_GreatAndaman_100BP.SG China_Tianyuan -0.0167 -2.802 25905 26787 508530
    result: Primate_Chimp Aleut.DG Indian_GreatAndaman_100BP.SG China_Tianyuan -0.0257 -4.430 25390 26728 508542
    result: Primate_Chimp Ulchi.DG Indian_GreatAndaman_100BP.SG China_Tianyuan -0.0132 -2.178 25934 26626 508516
    result: Primate_Chimp China_Lahu.DG Indian_GreatAndaman_100BP.SG China_Tianyuan -0.0156 -2.639 25882 26705 508498
    result: Primate_Chimp Malaysia_Jehai.SG Indian_GreatAndaman_100BP.SG China_Tianyuan -0.0440 -6.264 25397 27732 514751

  11. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to TuaMan For This Useful Post:

     Max_H (08-02-2020),  Psynome (08-02-2020),  Ryukendo (08-02-2020)

  12. #268
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,719
    Sex
    Omitted

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryukendo View Post
    If you would like to test hypotheses like these, its better to use qpGraph. Nowadays with the new implementation even very complex graphs go through in ~15 seconds. Try your hand at it!
    I am using qpgraph, I just can't get up the ambition to create a graph file for every whacky idea
    Collection of 14,000 d-stats: Hidden Content Part 2: Hidden Content Part 3: Hidden Content PM me for d-stats, qpadm, qpgraph, or f3-outgroup nmonte models.

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to Kale For This Useful Post:

     Ryukendo (08-02-2020)

  14. #269
    Registered Users
    Posts
    76
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Kale View Post
    Yes indeed, not really Onge-specifically, just something in the general Onge/Hoabinhian/Oceanian(-Densiovan) category.

    Last run I did had...
    Goyet = 8% Tianyuan
    Gravettians = 5% Tianyuan
    MA1 = 2% Tianyuan, 29% Onge-like
    Yana = MA1-like + 4% Tianyuan
    'East Asian' (non-ANE parts of Boisman and NAM) = 16% Tianyuan, 84% Onge-like
    Iran_N = 17% East Asian amongst other things.

    My general hypothesis is an initial North .vs. South divide in Asia. First in the North is Tianyuan-like, then I guess after the CI eruption which devastated the Western steppe Onge-like group moves up from Central Asia absorbing whoever was left, and then generic paleo-Euro group expands absorbing them shortly after creating ANE. Further East Yana picks up more Northern ancestry. A separate South to North movement largely replaces the Tianyuan ancestry in East Asia.
    I don't know how to explain Tianyuan ancestry in Europe bypassing Kostenki and Sunghir. Maybe it was more Northern? Siberia > Scandinavia > then South into Central-Europe?
    Certainly interesting. Which samples do you mean by Gravettian here btw? Yana did look more Eastern-shifted than MA1 in my opinion, good to see this reflected in your run.

    Do you know how much ANE Boisman has? Also what do you mean by NAM?

    Anyways, I do agree with your overall hypothesis, it is almost certain the this Onge-like ancestry of East Asians is a very early arrival in the area, not some kind of later waves from Southeast Asia. (Probably some of that too, but not 80% of EA ancestry)

    I guess it could be that Kostenki and Sunghir have some kind of unique/complex ancestry. Or alternatively, Tianyuan has complex ancestry which also causes the low sharing with modern-day East Asians (?)
    Last edited by Max_H; 08-02-2020 at 03:18 PM.

  15. #270
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    7,622

    Quote Originally Posted by Kale View Post
    Yes indeed, not really Onge-specifically, just something in the general Onge/Hoabinhian/Oceanian(-Densiovan) category.

    Last run I did had...
    Goyet = 8% Tianyuan
    Gravettians = 5% Tianyuan
    MA1 = 2% Tianyuan, 29% Onge-like
    Yana = MA1-like + 4% Tianyuan
    'East Asian' (non-ANE parts of Boisman and NAM) = 16% Tianyuan, 84% Onge-like
    Iran_N = 17% East Asian amongst other things.

    My general hypothesis is an initial North .vs. South divide in Asia. First in the North is Tianyuan-like, then I guess after the CI eruption which devastated the Western steppe Onge-like group moves up from Central Asia absorbing whoever was left, and then generic paleo-Euro group expands absorbing them shortly after creating ANE. Further East Yana picks up more Northern ancestry. A separate South to North movement largely replaces the Tianyuan ancestry in East Asia.
    I don't know how to explain Tianyuan ancestry in Europe bypassing Kostenki and Sunghir. Maybe it was more Northern? Siberia > Scandinavia > then South into Central-Europe?
    How does Ust Ishim play a part in all of this? Is there only 5000 years of drift between Ust and Tianyuan, or more?

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to parasar For This Useful Post:

     tipirneni (08-02-2020)

Page 27 of 28 FirstFirst ... 1725262728 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 05-21-2020, 09:38 AM
  2. Replies: 17
    Last Post: 09-10-2019, 12:29 AM
  3. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-30-2019, 12:40 PM
  4. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-23-2018, 06:36 AM
  5. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-03-2017, 12:19 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •