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Thread: 1 of the 7 beauties: blond and brown eyes or dark and blue/gray eyes!?

  1. #21
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    Me, my parents, and brother, all have Very dark brown hair and blue eyes. My dad and brother have a darker complexion than my mom and I. I wonder if that’s how 23andme decides on hair color. Because on skin tone my brother and I differed on one marker. And they correctly called his hair color. One of my grandsons was born blond and brown eyed. One grandson blond and blue eyed. One granddaughter brown haired, dark complexion, and blue eyed. The boys hair has darkened over time. All children of my son and his wife. And all perfect. Of course. Lol.

    My brother’s

    1% have light blond hair.

    6% have dark blond hair.

    25% have light brown hair.

    61% have dark brown hair.

    7% have black hair

    Mine


    Of 23andMe research participants with results like yours:

    17% have light blond hair.

    45% have dark blond hair.

    25% have light brown hair.

    13% have dark brown hair.

    < 1% have black hair.

    They correctly got blue eyes for us both. Also got skin tone right. But not the hair for me.

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    what about the so called "black irish "....black hair and blue eyes
    The term seems to a new world one and people who use it cant even make their minds up as to what it means. But if its black hair and blue eyes then it must be rare. Real black hair as opposed to brown is actually rare in Ireland. A scientific sample of 10000 Irish people done by Harvard in the 1940s I think sampled living Irish people across the whole island found only 3% black hair. Irish eye colour is roughly 50% Blue, 30% blue-green and most of the rest are some form of hazel. Apparently pure brown (I suppose dark brown eyes) are only 0.5% in Ireland.

    Other people seem to use the term black Irish to simply mean people with dark hair, hazel eyes and skin that isnt as fair as the Irish norm. I suppose that type isnt uncommon - perhaps around 15% of the pop but they really are not especially dark so the name black Irish seems absurd.

    Interestingly, the south-east coast of Ireland has twice as much of the darker skin shades than the west. The east is also only half as freckly as the west. So, it appears that the more 'native' Irish were very predominantly fair freckly skinned and the slightly darker less freckled skin is more likely the relate to the many waves of later settlers in the south-east of Ireland.

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    Pretty well all my relatives out to cousins and grandparents on both sides of my family seem to follow the same basic pattern. All fair skinned blue eyed except one cousin who looks so different I call him 'the changeling'. Mostly had very fair hair (from white blond to yellow 'butter blond') as infants. Usually shifting from blond to mousey around 7 or 8 years old. Mid brown by 12 and pretty well staying that way after. The girls seemed to darken a little slower than the boys. But all eventually ended up with the same sort of mid brown shade. I know the ginger genes is carried in the family (my sister tested positive for it at 23 and me and an uncle had a red beard) but I dont think we have had a redhead in several generations despite it being very very common for families to throw them up randomly.

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  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chnodomar View Post
    Phenotypically ,"dark" hair (if including light brown hair in that category) and light eyes is certainly the most or second most combination in central and northwest Europe. I don't believe for a minute, that brown eyes and blond hair is a more common combination than that.
    Usually, even if someone lives in a very blond region, the percentage of light eyes is even greater than that of blonde hair, which logically means, that a large share of dark haired individuals must be light eyed. Actual blonde hair and dark eyes seems very uncommon.

    And actually the findings of that table you shared seems to be at odds with table 2 from the same study, where what I stated above, is clearly shown. So either we interpret table 3 wrongly, something inhibits the genotypical correlation to express itself phenotypically or they made a mistake.
    Quote Originally Posted by alan View Post
    A scientific sample of 10000 Irish people done by Harvard in the 1940s I think sampled living Irish people across the whole island found only 3% black hair. Irish eye colour is roughly 50% Blue, 30% blue-green and most of the rest are some form of hazel. Apparently pure brown (I suppose dark brown eyes) are only 0.5% in Ireland.

    Other people seem to use the term black Irish to simply mean people with dark hair, hazel eyes and skin that isnt as fair as the Irish norm. I suppose that type isnt uncommon - perhaps around 15% of the pop but they really are not especially dark so the name black Irish seems absurd.

    From Blok (in the table is said Blom) the Dutch population in 1908:


    Here we see the combination blond hair with brown eyes is 7,8%
    The combination black hair and blue/gray eyes is 1.9%.

    More specific about my North Dutch region is said (Hofstee 1937, also based on Blok), Groningen (my heartland) has the most blond haired 81%, Friesland has the most blue/gray eyed 81,5%. And more on a micro level about a village in my subregion is said only 75,2% have blue/gray eyes. So may be there is a little blond hair/ brown eyed hotspot

    By the way a much smaller sampling gives a complete other picture:



    Here we see the combination blond hair with brown eyes is 2,5%
    The combination dark hair and blue/gray eyes is 28,3.%

    So quite arbitrary business.....
    http://www.tweelingenregister.org/ne..._TRHG_2016.pdf
    Last edited by Finn; 03-29-2020 at 09:16 PM.

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  9. #25
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    We have a pretty good contingent of redheads on my dad's side of the family, and he himself was a carrier of the red hair variant Arg160Trp (R160W), or rs1805008 T, which he passed on to me (I know I got it from him because my mom doesn't carry it).

    I've posted a lot of this stuff before in the various red hair threads, but here is a pic of me showing my reddish moustache, one of my youngest daughter as a baby, and one of my grandkids (children of my youngest son) from a few years ago.

    richard stevens red moustache.jpg anna stevens baby.jpeg Stevens kids Sep 2015 Fredericksburg, Virginia.png

    My dad's sister, Lois, was a carrot-top redhead.
    Last edited by rms2; 03-29-2020 at 10:23 PM.

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  11. #26
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    That's an impressive cop/fireman stache you had going on there.

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  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan View Post
    The term seems to a new world one and people who use it cant even make their minds up as to what it means. But if its black hair and blue eyes then it must be rare. Real black hair as opposed to brown is actually rare in Ireland. A scientific sample of 10000 Irish people done by Harvard in the 1940s I think sampled living Irish people across the whole island found only 3% black hair. Irish eye colour is roughly 50% Blue, 30% blue-green and most of the rest are some form of hazel. Apparently pure brown (I suppose dark brown eyes) are only 0.5% in Ireland.

    Other people seem to use the term black Irish to simply mean people with dark hair, hazel eyes and skin that isnt as fair as the Irish norm. I suppose that type isnt uncommon - perhaps around 15% of the pop but they really are not especially dark so the name black Irish seems absurd.

    Interestingly, the south-east coast of Ireland has twice as much of the darker skin shades than the west. The east is also only half as freckly as the west. So, it appears that the more 'native' Irish were very predominantly fair freckly skinned and the slightly darker less freckled skin is more likely the relate to the many waves of later settlers in the south-east of Ireland.
    Even in science, we see that's in the eye of the beholder, or in other words the definitions are different.
    In society's with somewhat lighter pigmentation dark blond is seen as brown and in society's with darker pigmentation light brown is seen as blonde.....

    From Jonas Mengel-From e.a. Genetic determinants of hair and eye colours in the Scottish and Danish populations (2009)

    Danes



    Light blond/fair and brown/hazel eyes: 3,6%
    Black/brown/darkblond and blue eyes: 29%




    Scots



    Fair hair and brown/hazel eyes:1,5%
    Black hair and blue/grey eyes:2,2%

    To some extent apples and oranges!!!

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  15. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by oz View Post
    That's an impressive cop/fireman stache you had going on there.
    Thanks! I was just 18. That pic came from my very first university ID card, back when they used those old data punch things (you can see one below my ear).

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  17. #29
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    please delete
    Last edited by Finn; 03-30-2020 at 04:05 PM.

  18. #30
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    On my mom's side of the family there are a lot of blonds. My maternal grandmother was a natural golden blond, and she had very striking light blue eyes. She kept her blond hair without the use of hair dye right up until the day she died at age 81.

    My cousin June on that side of the family is so fair that she is nearly an albino and has to be really careful out in the sun. Her hair is so blond it is nearly white, and she has very blue blue eyes (not pink like a true albino).

    My mom's people tend to be tall and slender, too, like Scandinavians.

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