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Thread: Albanian and Vlach tribes in Herzegovina

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cascio View Post
    I'm sure great Tuscan writers like Dante would have written "mela" for "apple" and not "pomo" as in the North.
    he wrote Pomo



    Italian is the youngest language in Italy, it did not come out of Vulgar Latin , like the far older regional Italian languages
    Last edited by vettor; 05-20-2020 at 05:22 AM.


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    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtdna

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  3. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    he wrote Pomo



    Italian is the youngest language in Italy, it did not come out of Vulgar Latin , like the far older regional Italian languages
    Thanks for the Dante quote.

    Of course, ALL Romance languages are developments from Vulgar Latin.

    Standard Italian is essentially (not entirely) based on the Florentine Tuscan literature of Dante, Boccaccio, Petrarch etc.

    Your detail about "pomo/mela" is interesting.
    Another example of a more Southern word in Standard Italian is "ragazzo" for "boy" which came from Rome.

    Tuscans would say "bimbo" (some still do) for "boy" and "bimba" for "girl".

    Also, Tuscans often use "ora" for "now" against "adesso" in Standard Italian and "nulla" rather than "niente" for "nothing".

    "Babbo" for "dad" is very common still in Tuscany.
    Last edited by Cascio; 05-20-2020 at 07:27 AM.

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  5. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cascio View Post
    Thanks for the Dante quote.

    Of course, ALL Romance languages are developments from Vulgar Latin.

    Standard Italian is essentially (not entirely) based on the Florentine Tuscan literature of Dante, Boccaccio, Petrarch etc.

    Your detail about "pomo/mela" is interesting.
    Another example of a more Southern word in Standard Italian is "ragazzo" for "boy" which came from Rome.

    Tuscans would say "bimbo" (some still do) for "boy" and "bimba" for "girl".

    Also, Tuscans often use "ora" for "now" against "adesso" in Standard Italian and "nulla" rather than "niente" for "nothing".

    "Babbo" for "dad" is very common still in Tuscany.
    Veneti say

    Toso for ragazzo

    Desso for now

    Putei for children

    Pare is father, Mare is mother or use papa and mama ......never ever use, padre and madre as they are religious term for priests and nuns

    Mar is the sea

    Pietro Bembo made a major change to Dante works in the 16th century


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    Grandfather via paternal grandmother = I1-L22 ydna
    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtdna

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  7. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maleschreiber View Post
    One could suppose that a part of them had settled in Greece by the time Shala (late 15th century) arrived in the area, so they were already too few to not get absorbed in Shala eventually. UPDATE: It turns out (as archival records posted below by Exercitus show) that Varibobi was related to a tribe of southern Albania named Varibobi.
    A settlement called Pop/Bop is recorded in the defter of the Sanjak of Shkodra of 1485 just to the south of Shala (Nicaj Shalė). I think it's pretty clear that this settlement was founded by and belonged to the Bobi tribe that previously lived in the Shala tribal territory.

    The following individuals are recorded in the village:
    1) Gjon, son of Xhovan
    2) Lukal, son of Kabil
    3) Dom Gjoni
    4) Lukan, son of Stanisha
    5) Marin, son of Draniē
    Ydna: J1>P58>YSC234>ZS241

    Maternal Ydna: E-V13>CTS5856*

    Mtdna: T1a1l

  8. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Maleschreiber View Post
    Varibobi is a compound according to the most accepted etylogy of "varri" (tomb) + "Bobi". So "Varipapa" means "priest's tomb" and is an indication of the territory of this community and its fis name prior to it settling in Italy. It is interesting about what it indicates about early medieval Albanian names and toponyms. Many ruins of early medieval settlements in Albania show a pattern of the settlement to have formed around a church and a burial area attached to the church.
    There is also an Arvanite village named Varibobi in Euboea.
    http://www.promacedonia.org/en/mv/mv_3_6.htm#1
    Varibobi is considered a Slavic placename by Max Vasmer, even though niether Attica or Euboea fell under Slavic rule (the regions did have an insignificant Slavic presence though). I find it hard to believe this is all a coincidence. I favour an Albanian origin for the name.

  9. #86
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    Albania Kosovo Montenegro
    I have recently read a work by Albanian scholar Idriz Ajeti titled: Contribution to the study of the Mediaeval onomastics in the territory of Montenegro, Bosnja and Hercegovina, and Kosova. The work is included in the book The Albanians and their territories, which also includes other interesting works in regards to the Albanians.

    In this work, Ajeti states that the village of Butmir near Sarajevo, Bosnia, may in fact have an Albanian etymology. The village is recorded in 1455 with the name Budmir, and also in 1485 as Budmire. According to Ajeti and other scholars that are referenced, the name is a compound of two Albanian words; botė (earth/soil) and mirė (good). According to this, the name essentially means "good soil" or "good earth" and refers to land that is fertile or good for cultivation. Personally, whilst I think that this may very well be the correct etymology, I think that it could also be derived from the Slavic name Budimir.

    It is also stated that toponyms such as Ligata and Ligatići could be derived or explained through the Albanian word ligatė. Ajeti believes that the word ligatė, from which these toponyms are supposedly derived from, is a derivative of the Albanian lagatė which in turn is a derivative of the word lag (wet) with the suffix -atė. So the word is supposed to denote a marshy or wet place and is not related to the other Albanian word ligatė which is used to denote an illness or ailment.
    Last edited by Kelmendasi; 06-04-2020 at 05:09 PM.
    Ydna: J1>P58>YSC234>ZS241

    Maternal Ydna: E-V13>CTS5856*

    Mtdna: T1a1l

  10. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    Vlachs might be Dacian, i think I2a2 was one of the main Dacian lineages.
    Not likely. And Vlachs diverge from each other.

    ---
    Just curious is the name Leka found in non Albanian countries (of Balkan)?
    Last edited by Scar; 06-04-2020 at 08:28 PM.

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  12. #88
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    Albania Kosovo Montenegro
    Quote Originally Posted by Scar View Post
    Not likely. And Vlachs diverge from each other.

    ---
    Just curious is the name Leka found in non Albanian countries (of Balkan)?
    As far as I know, the name Leka or Lekė is only used among Albanians, though you can find it in the version of a last name in groups that have been influenced by or were originally Albanian-speaking. For example, in Montenegro (especially the east and south) you can find a number of people with the surname Leković.
    Ydna: J1>P58>YSC234>ZS241

    Maternal Ydna: E-V13>CTS5856*

    Mtdna: T1a1l

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    Serbs/Montenegrins also seem to have used Leka as well (Aleksander Rankovic went by it as a nick-name). Anyone have any theories on Gjoka/Djoko? Serb/Montenegrins, Albanians, and even Macedonians I think use it.

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    Albania Kosovo Montenegro
    Quote Originally Posted by TuaMan View Post
    Serbs/Montenegrins also seem to have used Leka as well (Aleksander Rankovic went by it as a nick-name). Anyone have any theories on Gjoka/Djoko? Serb/Montenegrins, Albanians, and even Macedonians I think use it.
    I believe it's the result of influence from Albanian-speaking populations, we do not see Serbs (those without influence from Albanians) in any of the records use Leka or Lekė as a personal name. The name Leka itself is the traditional Albanian variant of the name Alexander or Aleksander, the traditional Serbian variant of this name is Aleks.

    As for Gjoka, the etymology of this name is still uncertain. I have seen a claim on Wiktionary which states that the name is a continuation of the Illyrian name *Glaukias, however I do not know what this claim is based on. It has also been argued that it may be a variant of the Albanian name Gjon, or even the Serbian name Đorđe (Djordje). Personally I am uncertain as to the origin of the name, but what is clear is that this name was typical of the Albanians.
    Ydna: J1>P58>YSC234>ZS241

    Maternal Ydna: E-V13>CTS5856*

    Mtdna: T1a1l

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