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Thread: Which YSEQ panel to order for Pakistan Awan Ancestry - JM172 according to 23andme

  1. #1

    Which YSEQ panel to order for Pakistan Awan Ancestry - JM172 according to 23andme

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    1,281
    Sex
    Location
    Birmingham, UK
    Ethnicity
    Indian - Punjabi Jatt
    Nationality
    British
    Y-DNA (P)
    R2-SK2142 > Y1383*
    mtDNA (M)
    U7a3a5a
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1b-Z2109 > Y84821
    mtDNA (P)
    M5a1a (185G)

    England United Kingdom India Punjab India
    Quote Originally Posted by sarmadmalik88 View Post
    Thanks
    Have you ran your DNA results through MorleyDNA? If so, what does that website predict?
    YFull: YF72440 (FTDNA - IN41220)

    Ancestral Haplos (Punjabi Jatt):
    * Father: R2-SK2142 > Y1383* - M5a1a (185G)
    * Maternal Uncle: R1b-Z2109 > Y84821 - U7a3a5a
    * MGMs MGF: R1a-Z93 > Y7 - ?

    Friends Haplos:
    * North Moroccan Berber: E-M35 > M81 - R0
    * Han Chinese: O-M117 > F1531 - M7e
    * Gujarati Lohana: T-M70 > Y11151 - R30b1

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  4. #3
    Just did,


    Most likely
    J2a1i
    J2-L88 (J2-L198)

  5. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to sarmadmalik88 For This Useful Post:

     agent_lime (04-05-2020),  Ahmed Ali (04-05-2020),  Amber29 (04-05-2020),  clocknative (04-05-2020),  Jatt1 (04-05-2020),  MonkeyDLuffy (04-05-2020)

  6. #4
    Registered Users
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    Y-DNA (P)
    J-M410 (so far)
    mtDNA (M)
    N1d
    mtDNA (P)
    U7

    United Kingdom Pakistan
    Quote Originally Posted by sarmadmalik88 View Post
    Just did,


    Most likely
    J2a1i
    J2-L88 (J2-L198)

    Oh cool, I'm the same!

  7. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Ahmed Ali For This Useful Post:

     aaronbee2010 (04-05-2020),  Amber29 (04-05-2020),  clocknative (04-05-2020),  Jatt1 (04-05-2020),  subzero85 (08-20-2020)

  8. #5
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    1,281
    Sex
    Location
    Birmingham, UK
    Ethnicity
    Indian - Punjabi Jatt
    Nationality
    British
    Y-DNA (P)
    R2-SK2142 > Y1383*
    mtDNA (M)
    U7a3a5a
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1b-Z2109 > Y84821
    mtDNA (P)
    M5a1a (185G)

    England United Kingdom India Punjab India
    Quote Originally Posted by sarmadmalik88 View Post
    Just did,


    Most likely
    J2a1i
    J2-L88 (J2-L198)
    In that case, it's worth mentioning that the YSEQ panel of choice (in your case, the "J2a-PF5197 Panel") only tests for SNPs from three subclades under J-L198 (J-L433 on their tree) whereas YFull has considerably more. You could ask YSEQ if they can update that three, but that's entirely up to them. In case you get a "no" from them, you're better off testing for those three SNPs from YSEQ individually.

    Here's an excerpt from a message I sent to Ahmed Ali, who also comes under J-L198:

    There are a a multitude of samples under this subclade on YFull (https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-L198/). Since Euro subclades are probably the least likely from my own guesswork, I'm assuming you either come under J-M419 or J-Y33951. The latter is less likely as the two Saudi samples under J-Y33951 only have a 500 year TMRCA, which makes it less likely to come under there, statistically speaking. The Arabs under J-M419 are more distantly related so you're probably more likely to come under their subclade underneath J-M419 (J-Y146996) than you are J-Y33951.

    Now as far as whether Y-DNA testing is worth it for you, it's hard to say. Assuming you test M419+, a Y146996+ result would make Arab descent very likely, but if you're Y146996- (in other words, you come under J-M419), then the only two samples there are an Indian sample and a German sample. I've looked up the run accession number for the Indian sample on ENA and found the following from the sample accession (different to the run accession):

    "This individual is a 64 year old male of South-Asian origin (Country of Birth: India). They are Muslim, and their first language is Punjabi."

    If you were to turn out M419+ and Y146996-, then it's still hard to say how close you are to the Indian sample compared to the German sample. I think you're definitely closer to the Indian sample, but how much isn't clear.

    If you want the cheapest method of testing two SNPs, then YSEQ is the way to go. Each SNP is $18 to test and the first one is $6 as this pays for the swab + shipping, but YSEQ just reuse your swab for all other orders including your second one. Y146996 isn't on the YSEQ tree but there are other SNPs under the J-Y146996 subclade on YFull, so you can look for any of those and test for them.
    If YSEQ are willing to update their J2a-PF5197 panel, then you could consider testing with that, otherwise if you were to go the route of individual testing, I would start with M419, if you're M419+, test for BY44571 (this SNP comes under J-Y146996) and if you're M419-, test for Z40068. If Z40068+, test for Y20566. Looking at YFull, it appears likely to me that you're M419+, BY44571-.

    This is pretty much equivalent to ordering the J2a-PF5197 panel if they don't update it, and with the methodology I mentioned, you're testing only for three SNPs at most, which would come to $60 including shipping the swab for the first order. For comparison, their J2a-PF5197 panel is $88. Again, if they update it, then you may wish to consider that. Personally, I think it's likely that you come under J-M419* (M419+, BY44571-) but at least an updated panel gives you some certainty that you'll end up somewhere on their tree (again, if it's updated - sorry to sound like a broken record).
    YFull: YF72440 (FTDNA - IN41220)

    Ancestral Haplos (Punjabi Jatt):
    * Father: R2-SK2142 > Y1383* - M5a1a (185G)
    * Maternal Uncle: R1b-Z2109 > Y84821 - U7a3a5a
    * MGMs MGF: R1a-Z93 > Y7 - ?

    Friends Haplos:
    * North Moroccan Berber: E-M35 > M81 - R0
    * Han Chinese: O-M117 > F1531 - M7e
    * Gujarati Lohana: T-M70 > Y11151 - R30b1

    Hidden Content

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  10. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaronbee2010 View Post
    In that case, it's worth mentioning that the YSEQ panel of choice (in your case, the "J2a-PF5197 Panel") only tests for SNPs from three subclades under J-L198 (J-L433 on their tree) whereas YFull has considerably more. You could ask YSEQ if they can update that three, but that's entirely up to them. In case you get a "no" from them, you're better off testing for those three SNPs from YSEQ individually.

    Here's an excerpt from a message I sent to Ahmed Ali, who also comes under J-L198:



    If YSEQ are willing to update their J2a-PF5197 panel, then you could consider testing with that, otherwise if you were to go the route of individual testing, I would start with M419, if you're M419+, test for BY44571 (this SNP comes under J-Y146996) and if you're M419-, test for Z40068. If Z40068+, test for Y20566. Looking at YFull, it appears likely to me that you're M419+, BY44571-.

    This is pretty much equivalent to ordering the J2a-PF5197 panel if they don't update it, and with the methodology I mentioned, you're testing only for three SNPs at most, which would come to $60 including shipping the swab for the first order. For comparison, their J2a-PF5197 panel is $88. Again, if they update it, then you may wish to consider that. Personally, I think it's likely that you come under J-M419* (M419+, BY44571-) but at least an updated panel gives you some certainty that you'll end up somewhere on their tree (again, if it's updated - sorry to sound like a broken record).
    J2a1 is IVC branch as well?

  11. #7
    https://isogg.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J2a_(Y-DNA)

    Would love some further info as well

  12. #8

  13. #9
    This is great info, thanks a ton. Yes, yfull is definitely out of my budget. Ahmed Ali, what did you decide? Did you get in touch with YSEQ by any chance?

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  15. #10
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    1,281
    Sex
    Location
    Birmingham, UK
    Ethnicity
    Indian - Punjabi Jatt
    Nationality
    British
    Y-DNA (P)
    R2-SK2142 > Y1383*
    mtDNA (M)
    U7a3a5a
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1b-Z2109 > Y84821
    mtDNA (P)
    M5a1a (185G)

    England United Kingdom India Punjab India
    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyDLuffy View Post
    J2a1 is IVC branch as well?
    Yes. J2a1-L26 has a significant distribution around South Pakistan and West/Southwest India, which mirrors L-M27 well. This suggests that it was probably present in IVC. It's also been found in BMAC, and some YFull subclades of J-L26 have Indian samples within West Asian/European samples with TMRCAs that are most likely too young for IVC. J-L26 is roughly 16000 years old, so it's definitely possible that it could enter South Asia in multiple waves. As skeptical of a lot of Eupedias theories on Indo-Iranians and their supposedly invasive nature as I am, they do give a good analysis of the history of various J2a subcaldes.
    YFull: YF72440 (FTDNA - IN41220)

    Ancestral Haplos (Punjabi Jatt):
    * Father: R2-SK2142 > Y1383* - M5a1a (185G)
    * Maternal Uncle: R1b-Z2109 > Y84821 - U7a3a5a
    * MGMs MGF: R1a-Z93 > Y7 - ?

    Friends Haplos:
    * North Moroccan Berber: E-M35 > M81 - R0
    * Han Chinese: O-M117 > F1531 - M7e
    * Gujarati Lohana: T-M70 > Y11151 - R30b1

    Hidden Content

  16. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to aaronbee2010 For This Useful Post:

     Ahmed Ali (04-05-2020),  Jatt1 (04-05-2020),  MonkeyDLuffy (04-06-2020)

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