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Thread: E-Z5009 (E-M183): From the the Maghreb to Europe and the New World

  1. #171
    This theory was actually confirmed by Olalde et al. 2019. The Andalusian with the most Levantine ancestry carry E-M183, this haplogroup is in fact the only male lineage that appeared after the Arabo-Islamic conquest of Iberia .



    Edit: Although it is more likely that there were several of E-M81 carriers, a first wave linked to Phoenicians and a later one linked to Arabs.
    Last edited by RagingBull; 02-23-2021 at 08:41 PM.

  2. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by capsian View Post
    There are 2 samples new under haplgroup E-Z21068 From Egypt and algeria and sample from study Boattini et al. 2013
    most likelyunder E-Z21068* or E-P2431*
    I know about all L19 clusters, in fact I'm the one who first noted the existence of the egyptian" cluster and from the Y-STRs I knew it had a basal position on the tree.

    However, the kenyan L19 is something else. It's Y-STR values are highly divergent and I'm pretty much sure it would push back the TMRCA of the whole clade. I however have to remember the DYS448 value because I don't remember if I had it classified under PF2431 or not. DYS448 = 22 most likely means PF2431 when the sample is L19+

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  4. #173
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    Morocco
    Ethnicity
    Amazigh
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    Moroccan
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-Z5009
    mtDNA (M)
    L2a1c6

    Morocco Virgin Islands British
    Quote Originally Posted by RagingBull View Post
    This theory was actually confirmed by Olalde et al. 2019. The Andalusian with the most Levantine ancestry carry E-M183, this haplogroup is in fact the only male lineage that appeared after the Arabo-Islamic conquest of Iberia .



    Edit: Although it is more likely that there were several of E-M81 carriers, a first wave linked to Phoenicians and a later one linked to Arabs.

    "Levantine Ancestry"





    also what do you mean with "this haplogroup is in fact the only male lineage that appeared after the Arabo-Islamic conquest of Iberia"

    isn't the E-Z5009 guanche remain is pre islamic in the region?
    37.2 Iberomaurusian
    36.0 Early_European_Farmer
    8.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
    7.8 Steppe_Pastoralist
    5.4 Iran_Neolithic
    5.0 SSA


    Paternal Haplogroup == Hidden Content == YF80557

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  6. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Imesmouden View Post
    "Levantine Ancestry"

    also what do you mean with "this haplogroup is in fact the only male lineage that appeared after the Arabo-Islamic conquest of Iberia"

    isn't the E-Z5009 guanche remain is pre islamic in the region?
    E-M183 individuals have the most Levantine ancestry out of all Andalusians, J2 was found among Empuries Greeks so it predates the presence of the Phoenicians. Are you seriously implying that Jews were responsible for the spread of E-M183 and Levantine ancestry to Iberia btw? They don't carry E-M183, and Yemeni Jews aside, they have less Natufian than even the most SSA-shifted North Africans.

    As for Guanches, they postdate the Islamic expansion into Africa and most of them aren't E-M183. They don't cluster with Berbers either, they have more Steppe, more ENF, less Natufian and less SSA. They were probably IE and spoke a language related to Celtiberian.
    Last edited by RagingBull; 02-23-2021 at 10:00 PM.

  7. #175
    A principal component analysis (PCA) of the five samples with the highest autosomal genome coverage, performed using genome-wide autosomal SNPs overlapping with Human Origins (HO) data [19, 20], reveals close affinity to modern Northwest African populations such as Tunisians and Algerians, but with a tendency (especially for individuals from Gran Canaria) to occupy a space outside modern Northwest African variation, closer to Europeans (Figures 2 and S2). However, outgroup f3 statistics [19] suggest that the Guanches share more genetic drift with non-African test populations than with African test populations, including Northwest African populations of Berber origin (Data S1, sheet 2)....

    This issue seems to extend to other statistics based on allele frequency correlations such as the D statistic [19] since D(Outgroup, Guanches; North African, Sardinian/Anatolian farmer) consistently produces highly significant positive values of D (Z > 4), which would imply a closer relationship between Guanches and Sardinians and Anatolian farmers than between Guanches and North African populations (Data S1, sheet 3).
    https://www.cell.com/current-biology...822(17)31257-5
    Last edited by RagingBull; 02-23-2021 at 10:15 PM.

  8. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by RagingBull View Post
    This theory was actually confirmed by Olalde et al. 2019. The Andalusian with the most Levantine ancestry carry E-M183, this haplogroup is in fact the only male lineage that appeared after the Arabo-Islamic conquest of Iberia .



    Edit: Although it is more likely that there were several of E-M81 carriers, a first wave linked to Phoenicians and a later one linked to Arabs.
    Don't kill me hahahahahahaha. U a funny dude still

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  10. #177
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    They do cluster with modern north africans, the ones who received the deepest coverage (gun008,011) cluster with modern north moroccans. Here my results compared to them :




    also :

    The MMD analysis indicates that the Canary Island sample is most similar to the four samples from Northwest Africa: the Shawia Berbers, Kabyle Berbers, Bedouin Arabs and Carthaginians, less similar to the three Egyptian samples and least like the three Nubian samples.
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...18442X04700153

    P values associated to FST calculations for the Punta Azul cave STR data (n 28) and modern populations from North Africa (n 75) and the Iberian Peninsula (n 335) (Table 3), indicates that the aboriginal population is not significantly different from Moroccan Berbers (p 0.676), but it is to the Iberian samples (p 0.036). Finally, autosomal diversity for the Punta Azul cave (66.40 7.60) is smaller than that in the Iberian Peninsula (78.65 1.10), but similar to Moroccan Berbers (68.42 3.91).

    Regarding the origin of El Hierro aboriginal population, Slatkin-linearized Fst distances based on autosomal STR are congruent with a great similarity of the Bimbapes with Berbers from Morocco, and a significant differentiation from Europe. This result is in accordance to previous archaeological, linguistic and genetic evidence about the Berber origin of aboriginal people. One of the most outstanding archaeological remains from El Hierro consists of a series of lybicberber inscriptions, clearly related with the ancient North African Berber's inscriptions
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...05440316301686



    Culture :

    According to the archaeological data, the ancient colonization of the Canary Islands was initiated at the beginnings of the 1st millennium BC, by Imazighen populations. This colonization propitiated the introduction in the Canarian Archipielago of the Lybico-Berber inscriptions, among other cultural elements from the North African Amazigh world. In the following pages we analyze the ancient colonization of the Canary Islands in light of the study of Libyco–Berber inscriptions, Latino Canarian scripts, and indigenous material culture.
    https://journals.openedition.org/corpus/2641

    "The ancient Libyco-Berber inscriptions of Canary Islands" ---> https://www.semanticscholar.org/pape...3862d791d82820

  11. #178
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    north africa
    Ethnicity
    berber
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    Morocco
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-Y141637*
    mtDNA (M)
    H2a2

    Morocco Algeria MoroccoPreColonial Byzantine Empire
    Quote Originally Posted by Cabaon View Post
    They do cluster with modern north africans, the ones who received the deepest coverage (gun008,011) cluster with modern north moroccans. Here my results compared to them :




    also :



    https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...18442X04700153






    https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...05440316301686



    Culture :



    https://journals.openedition.org/corpus/2641

    "The ancient Libyco-Berber inscriptions of Canary Islands" ---> https://www.semanticscholar.org/pape...3862d791d82820
    sample GUN012 it s close to prople souss

  12. #179
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    Location
    Morocco
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    Y-DNA (P)
    E-Z5009
    mtDNA (M)
    L2a1c6

    Morocco Virgin Islands British
    Quote Originally Posted by RagingBull View Post
    E-M183 individuals have the most Levantine ancestry out of all Andalusians, J2 was found among Empuries Greeks so it predates the presence of the Phoenicians. Are you seriously implying that Jews were responsible for the spread of E-M183 and Levantine ancestry to Iberia btw? They don't carry E-M183, and Yemeni Jews aside, they have less Natufian than even the most SSA-shifted North Africans.

    As for Guanches, they postdate the Islamic expansion into Africa and most of them aren't E-M183. They don't cluster with Berbers either, they have more Steppe, more ENF, less Natufian and less SSA. They were probably IE and spoke a language related to Celtiberian.
    Well first of all where did you came up with E-M183 individuals have the most Levantine ancestry out of all Andalusians lol?



    it's only one out of 3 samples who carry levantine related ancestry in the graph and less than most of the other samples , and the study already stated that this levantine related is more likely reflect ancestry from jewish groups





    G25 of one of the e-m183 samples

    37.2 Iberomaurusian
    36.0 Early_European_Farmer
    8.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
    7.8 Steppe_Pastoralist
    5.4 Iran_Neolithic
    5.0 SSA


    Paternal Haplogroup == Hidden Content == YF80557

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  14. #180
    You're not really helping your case, his closest populations are Andalusians followed by Phoenicians.

    Last edited by RagingBull; 02-26-2021 at 06:57 AM.

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