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Thread: Finally Danish samples in G25 (and French_Seine-Maritime and French_Pas-de-Calais)

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by evon View Post
    My Scottish connection is not that strong( one ancestor in the 1500 and another, who might have been English in the 1600), at least not on paper (although I suspect there are many more, but equally distant in time), and it is only in nMonte that we get a Irish signal. In most other estimates it is assigned as English etc.

    Genetically it is more likely that I have inherited some minor DNA from a English noble ancestor from the 1600, as I have several lines going back to him and DNA matches with people who also have the same ancesty. He was of mixed European noble ancesty, especially French, but it is too weak a connection to account for the signal in general.

    For me Irish is SW and if I remember correctly they often get Iberian %, like me, in nMonte.

    PS: anthrogenica is acting up again, as I didn't get any notification that you quoted me





    Are you sure she doesn't have any Norwegian or Danish ancesty, lots of Norwegians settled in Holland.
    100% sure!! Her known ancestry is for generations Hondsrug Drenthe, sincere the only I could find in her ancestry is the grandfather of her grandmother, he came from Doornspijk in the most northern part of Gelderland that's about 60 miles from the Hondsrug. For the rest unisono Hondsrug Drenthe. Hillbilly of the North.

    Norwegians that settled in Holland in the modern period were mostly working in the shipyards in and around very flourishing Amsterdam (=Dutch Golden Age)! No connection with Hondsrug Drenthe, that's a sandy hight in a quit 'isolated' part of the Netherlands. Poor small farm land, no immigration magnet. May be a comparison with the Lofoten is somewhat exaggerated but it comes close.

    Of course this enhances here chances to be in some kind connected to the funnel beaker people. The funnel beaker mixed with the incoming Steppe Pastoralist, but the Hondsrug/North Drenthe was such a dense populated Funnelbeaker hotspot (unique in the Netherlands!). I guess the Steppe pastoralist did not kill them all (to say it rough) and mixed with them (the women were taken in hostage, like prof Kristiansen is stating). So it is not hallucinating to suppose a kind of genetic (after) effect on a stocky Drenth!
    Last edited by Finn; 04-10-2020 at 09:14 AM.

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  3. #122
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    @ evon and an add, Hondsrug is Unesco World Heritage, see:
    https://www.hunebednieuwscafe.nl/201...-introduction/

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  5. #123
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    Last edited by evon; 04-10-2020 at 09:15 AM.

  6. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    100% sure!! Her known ancestry is for generations Hondsrug Drenthe, sincere the only I could find in her ancestry is the grandfather of her grandmother, he came from Doornspijk in the most northern part of Gelderland that's about 60 miles from the Hondsrug. For the rest unisono Hondsrug Drenthe. Hillbilly of the North.

    Norwegians that settled in Holland in de modern period were mostly working in the shipyards in and around very flourishing Amsterdam (=Dutch Golden Age)! No connection with Hondsrug Drenthe, that's a sandy hight in a quit 'isolated' part of the Netherlands. Poor small farm land, no immigration magnet. May be a comparison with the Lofoten is somewhat exaggerated but it comes close.

    Of course this enhances here chances to be in some kind connected to the funnel beaker people. The funnel beaker mixed with the incoming Steppe Pastoralist, but the Hondsrug/North Drenthe was such a dense populated Funnelbeaker hotspot (unique in the Netherlands!). I guess the Steppe pastoralist did not kill them all (to say it rough) and mixed with them (the women, like prof Kristiansen is stating). So it is not hallucinating to suppose a kind of genetic (after) effect on a stocky Drenth!
    Except Lofoten and Northern Norway was in fact a magnet for immigrants, especially Scots.

    You might find this interesting, should translate the page though: https://lokalhistoriewiki.no/wiki/Ut..._til_Nederland it mentions other cities and the problem with assuming that the sources from Amsterdam reflects the whole situation.

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  8. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by evon View Post
    Strange, maybe I am confusing Irish with English samples? I will look into it later today if I have time. These days I am restricted to my phone, so it is very limiting. I had a thread about it, but it was before the Danish, et al samples were added to the mix.
    Yes Irish would most likely be a proxy for Scots, Orcadian even Icelandic in some instances but not Basque or any SW population. NW populations are all very alike and a bit interchangeable with G25.

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  10. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by evon View Post
    Except Lofoten and Northern Norway was in fact a magnet for immigrants, especially Scots.

    You might find this interesting, should translate the page though: https://lokalhistoriewiki.no/wiki/Ut..._til_Nederland it mentions other cities and the problem with assuming that the sources from Amsterdam reflects the whole situation.
    Than it is wrong comparison, excuse. Hondsrug Drenthe was poor and quite isolated. Not a place of immigration. This I know for sure.

    I guess people that were migrating were looking for a job. In Holland (we in the North refuse to call us Hollanders!) this was the case. Like i said the Golden Age was a product of Holland, the cities in the west.

    I know lots of people state that his of her ancestry is something 'pure' or such kind of non sense. That does not exclude that there are cases like Finn Mom that have indeed ancestry from only a small part for over generations. They were poor labourers, farm hand. Farm hands on small farms....so quite poor.

    No place for immigrants to get too....trust me....

    To give you an impression.....(this is inland or isolated part of Norway like), this was exact the surrounding she was raised:
    Last edited by Finn; 04-10-2020 at 09:31 AM.

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  12. #127
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    Finn^^, apologies, seems I was confusing what you tell about your mother, and what you told months ago (or years ago) about a fine substructure in NL. About your mom, I'm tempted to ask the same question as Evon: "Are you sure she doesn't have any Norwegian or Danish ancestry, lots of Norwegians settled in Holland". Furthermore, it's not even necessary to wonder about a not unlikely Scandinavian ancestor. The tools we are using on this thread don't capture gene flows, on this point I'll remain uncompromising, but at most are sensitive to similarities through geometrical configurations. It's, for example, the reason why my father gets a high Swedish percentage with spreadsheets that don't include Finnish samples, and if I use a spreadsheet without Swedish he will get significative percentages for other Baltic groups, like Latvian, Belarusian, etc. In any case, what puzzles me is the way your thoughts jump directly to Narva and complex palaeogenetic explanations, leaving out some "genealogical eccentricities" which are perhaps a little trivial but are also as likely. All that said, I hope that there is no dramatic tonality behind my words because it's simply not a drama. Guys who are like you passionated by History tend to think the problems in a historical way, guys who like me have a mostly mathematical background have most often on everything a boring mathematical point of view, and fanatical genealogists search everywhere ancestors and cousins, it's life.
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  14. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by evon View Post
    Except Lofoten and Northern Norway was in fact a magnet for immigrants, especially Scots.

    You might find this interesting, should translate the page though: https://lokalhistoriewiki.no/wiki/Ut..._til_Nederland it mentions other cities and the problem with assuming that the sources from Amsterdam reflects the whole situation.
    I still don't understand a specific segment inherited from my father, with a clear Norwegian connection (90% matchs are Norwegians or of direct Norwegian descent). It seems that my father has a longer segment than me and is matching with more Norwegians than me (usually 8/10 cMs so not that big). And the longer segment (16 cMs) is with a Dutch. But I have very little information about him or his ancestry (he doesn't answer to my msg).
    So 2 possibilities:
    - a Norwegian came in Low Countries 300/400 years ago (Leyden?),
    - a relative of one of my ancestor (in Flanders?) settled in Holland or around, and some of his/her descendants in Norway (from Fredericia?).

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  16. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    Than it is wrong comparison, excuse. Hondsrug Drenthe was poor and quite isolated. Not a place of immigration. This I know for sure.

    I guess people that were migrating were looking for a job. In Holland (we in the North refuse to call us Hollanders!) this was the case. Like i said the Golden Age was a product of Holland, the cities in the west.

    I know lots of people state that his of her ancestry is something 'pure' or such kind of non sense. That does not exclude that there are cases like Finn Mom that have indeed ancestry from only a small part for over generations. They were poor labourers, farm hand. Farm hands on small farms....so quite poor.

    No place for immigrants to get too....trust me....
    And indirect? Because among Norwegians there were females, and many of them were servants in Amsterdam. Some of them could have descendants, identified as 100% Hollander. Some of these descendants were likely merchants or landowners, and moved from Amsterdam to other cities in Low Countries. At some point, everybody has some non local ancestry. It is always a matter of generations: the more you get back in time, the more likely you'll find non local ancestor.

    By the way, I found Norwegians in Dunkirk, in not too small numbers. Even if it is difficult to make a difference between JANSEN from local stock from Norwegian immigrant (or HENDRICKXEN, both common names).
    Last edited by ffoucart; 04-10-2020 at 10:33 AM.

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  18. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    100% sure!! Her known ancestry is for generations Hondsrug Drenthe, sincere the only I could find in her ancestry is the grandfather of her grandmother, he came from Doornspijk in the most northern part of Gelderland that's about 60 miles from the Hondsrug. For the rest unisono Hondsrug Drenthe. Hillbilly of the North.

    Norwegians that settled in Holland in the modern period were mostly working in the shipyards in and around very flourishing Amsterdam (=Dutch Golden Age)! No connection with Hondsrug Drenthe, that's a sandy hight in a quit 'isolated' part of the Netherlands. Poor small farm land, no immigration magnet. May be a comparison with the Lofoten is somewhat exaggerated but it comes close.

    Of course this enhances here chances to be in some kind connected to the funnel beaker people. The funnel beaker mixed with the incoming Steppe Pastoralist, but the Hondsrug/North Drenthe was such a dense populated Funnelbeaker hotspot (unique in the Netherlands!). I guess the Steppe pastoralist did not kill them all (to say it rough) and mixed with them (the women were taken in hostage, like prof Kristiansen is stating). So it is not hallucinating to suppose a kind of genetic (after) effect on a stocky Drenth!
    My humble opinion is that you cannot theoretize about connection to the Funnel Beaker people before you obtain a representative set of samples from that area of NL (Hondsrug Drenthe).
     
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