Page 1 of 39 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 383

Thread: Ancient genomes reveal social and genetic structure of Late Neolithic Switzerland

  1. #1
    Registered Users
    Posts
    4,311
    Sex

    Ancient genomes reveal social and genetic structure of Late Neolithic Switzerland

    The paper is coming soon. But the BAMs are out already.

    Anyone working on this?

    https://trace.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/Trace...tudy=SRP250694

    Here's some preliminary stuff...

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Q89...ew?usp=sharing

    https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2020/...56620424690810

  2. The Following 41 Users Say Thank You to Generalissimo For This Useful Post:

     167273 (04-12-2020),  Acque agitate (04-10-2020),  ADW_1981 (04-10-2020),  Agamemnon (04-11-2020),  Alain (04-10-2020),  Andour (04-10-2020),  anglesqueville (04-10-2020),  Cascio (04-10-2020),  Chnodomar (04-10-2020),  digital_noise (04-10-2020),  emmental (04-10-2020),  Erikl86 (04-14-2020),  evon (04-10-2020),  grumpydaddybear (04-10-2020),  Hando (04-11-2020),  hartaisarlag (04-10-2020),  Helen (04-11-2020),  Helgenes50 (04-10-2020),  Jatt1 (04-10-2020),  jdean (04-10-2020),  Jessie (04-10-2020),  JMcB (04-10-2020),  Johane Derite (04-10-2020),  John Doe (04-11-2020),  jstephan (04-10-2020),  Kelmendasi (04-10-2020),  Keqa (04-10-2020),  Miqui Rumba (04-20-2020),  MitchellSince1893 (04-10-2020),  Onur Dincer (04-10-2020),  parasar (04-10-2020),  patrizio22 (04-10-2020),  pmokeefe (04-10-2020),  Pribislav (04-10-2020),  Psynome (04-19-2020),  R.Rocca (04-10-2020),  rms2 (04-10-2020),  rozenfeld (04-10-2020),  Ruderico (04-10-2020),  sheepslayer (04-12-2020),  T101 (04-14-2020)

  3. #2
    Registered Users
    Posts
    3,748
    Sex
    Location
    USA
    Ethnicity
    Italo-Iberian
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-U152+L2+FGC10543
    mtDNA (M)
    H4a1-T152C!

    United States of America Italy 1861-1946 Spain
    All P312+ samples that have calls at L2 (under U152) were all derived:

    MX257 = R-U152>L2+
    MX275 = R-U152>L2+
    MX283 = R-U152>L2+
    MX279 = R-U152>L2+
    SNPRA64 = R-U152>L2+
    MX254_2 = R-U152>L2+
    SNPRA63 = R-U152>L2+
    MX288 = R-U152>L2+
    MX252 = R-U152>L2+
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

  4. The Following 25 Users Say Thank You to R.Rocca For This Useful Post:

     Acque agitate (04-10-2020),  Agamemnon (04-11-2020),  Alain (04-10-2020),  Andour (04-10-2020),  anglesqueville (04-10-2020),  Chnodomar (04-10-2020),  G Livesey (04-10-2020),  Generalissimo (04-10-2020),  grumpydaddybear (04-10-2020),  Hando (04-11-2020),  hartaisarlag (04-10-2020),  Helgenes50 (04-10-2020),  Jatt1 (04-10-2020),  jdean (04-10-2020),  Kelmendasi (04-10-2020),  Kelso (04-10-2020),  MitchellSince1893 (04-10-2020),  Onur Dincer (04-10-2020),  parasar (04-10-2020),  patrizio22 (04-10-2020),  Principe (04-10-2020),  Psynome (04-19-2020),  rms2 (04-10-2020),  StillWater (04-10-2020),  T101 (04-14-2020)

  5. #3
    Registered Users
    Posts
    4,311
    Sex

    I still don't know the dates for these samples, but their geographical origins are listed under the Sample info.

    https://trace.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/Trace...tudy=SRP250694

    So, for instance, MX265 is from the District of Constance, which is in southwest Germany.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov//biosample/SAMN14206648

  6. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Generalissimo For This Useful Post:

     Hando (04-11-2020),  Jatt1 (04-10-2020),  jdean (04-10-2020),  Onur Dincer (04-10-2020),  Psynome (04-19-2020),  rms2 (04-10-2020),  T101 (04-14-2020)

  7. #4
    Registered Users
    Posts
    3,671
    Sex
    Location
    Tierra de Ayllon
    Y-DNA (P)
    U152>L2>Z49>Z142>
    mtDNA (M)
    H1
    Y-DNA (M)
    I2a2a1b2a1b1>Y4925
    mtDNA (P)
    H37

    England Scotland Wales Germany Northern Ireland Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by R.Rocca View Post
    All P312+ samples that have calls at L2 (under U152) were all derived:

    MX257 = R-U152>L2+
    MX275 = R-U152>L2+
    MX283 = R-U152>L2+
    MX279 = R-U152>L2+
    SNPRA64 = R-U152>L2+
    MX254_2 = R-U152>L2+
    SNPRA63 = R-U152>L2+
    MX288 = R-U152>L2+
    MX252 = R-U152>L2+
    Anything found below L2?
    37% English, 26% Scot/Ulster Scot, 14% Welsh, 14% German, 3% Ireland, 3% Nordic, 2% French/Dutch, 1% India
    Hidden Content

  8. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MitchellSince1893 For This Useful Post:

     Hando (04-11-2020),  Onur Dincer (04-10-2020)

  9. #5
    Registered Users
    Posts
    4,311
    Sex

    Preliminary G25 coords for Aesch25 from the Swiss Plateau and MX265 from southwest Germany. I'm guessing Aesch25 is a very early R1b-M269 in the region, while MX265 is an R1a from a very mixed Corded Ware burial. But I might be wrong.

    Aesch25_scaled,0.12862,0.11577,0.059585,0.092055,0 .00677,0.032909,0.00517,0.013384,-0.025361,-0.030616,-0.00747,0.003747,-0.004014,-0.017478,0.029723,0.004508,-0.004172,-0.00038,0.001508,-0.00025,0.001123,-0.001855,0.000493,0.014339,-0.000239

    Aesch25,0.0113,0.0114,0.0158,0.0285,0.0022,0.0118, 0.0022,0.0058,-0.0124,-0.0168,-0.0046,0.0025,-0.0027,-0.0127,0.0219,0.0034,-0.0032,-0.0003,0.0012,-0.0002,0.0009,-0.0015,0.0004,0.0119,-0.0002

    MX265_scaled,0.122929,0.14319,0.04978,0.026163,0.0 46778,-0.000558,0.002585,0.002308,0.005727,0.011663,0.012 017,-0.005395,0.000595,0.01101,-0.009908,-0.015115,-0.009388,0.007348,0.001634,-0.002126,-0.01148,-0.00643,-0.002465,-0.006025,-0.008023

    MX265,0.0108,0.0141,0.0132,0.0081,0.0152,-0.0002,0.0011,0.001,0.0028,0.0064,0.0074,-0.0036,0.0004,0.008,-0.0073,-0.0114,-0.0072,0.0058,0.0013,-0.0017,-0.0092,-0.0052,-0.002,-0.005,-0.0067


  10. The Following 17 Users Say Thank You to Generalissimo For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (04-11-2020),  Andour (04-10-2020),  Chnodomar (04-10-2020),  Erikl86 (04-14-2020),  evon (04-10-2020),  fabrice E (04-13-2020),  Hando (04-13-2020),  Helgenes50 (04-10-2020),  Jatt1 (04-10-2020),  jdean (04-10-2020),  JMcB (04-10-2020),  Megalophias (04-10-2020),  Michał (04-14-2020),  Michalis Moriopoulos (04-10-2020),  MitchellSince1893 (04-10-2020),  Onur Dincer (04-10-2020),  parasar (04-10-2020)

  11. #6
    Registered Users
    Posts
    63
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    German

    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    I still don't know the dates for these samples, but their geographical origins are listed under the Sample info.

    https://trace.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/Trace...tudy=SRP250694

    So, for instance, MX265 is from the District of Constance, which is in southwest Germany.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov//biosample/SAMN14206648
    I'm not entirely sure about MX265, that's "merely" the biosample provider and it could simply be a cross-border effort. Other MX were treated by Archaeological Service of the Canton of Bern,Archaeological Service of the Canton of Bern/Solothurn and the Archaeological Service of the Canton of Aargau.
    On the other hand, MX probably simply means mixed (in terms of location, not necessarily in ancestry), since there's not really a possibility that there's an X in any (Swiss-)German toponym.


    Aesch seems to be from the Dolmen of Aesch. Apparently, according to the article, C14 dated to 2.400 BCE.

    Architecturally the dolmen belongs to the "Dolmen of Schwörstadt-type" which in turn are collectively assigned to the Horgen culture. But the latter seems a bit anachronistic for Aesch because the Horgen Culture is a few centuries older.

    It's, unsurprisingly for a dolmen, a collective grave for 14 children and 33 adults. A bit of a weird place to find Steppe ancestry in, especially at such high levels. But nothing is impossible, I guess.



  12. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Chnodomar For This Useful Post:

     Alain (04-10-2020),  Hando (04-13-2020),  Michał (04-14-2020)

  13. #7
    Registered Users
    Posts
    4,311
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Chnodomar View Post
    I'm not entirely sure about MX265, that's "merely" the biosample provider and it could simply be a cross-border effort. Other MX were treated by Archaeological Service of the Canton of Bern,Archaeological Service of the Canton of Bern/Solothurn and the Archaeological Service of the Canton of Aargau.
    On the other hand, MX probably simply means mixed (in terms of location, not necessarily in ancestry), since there's not really a possibility that there's an X in any (Swiss-)German toponym.
    Here's a working abstract for this paper from last year.

    In this study, we investigate genome-wide data from 97 individuals from the Swiss Plateau, Southern Germany and the Alsace Region in France that span the transition from the Neolithic to the Bronze Age (4500 to 2000 BCE). Our results show a similar genetic process as reported for the Middle-Elbe-Saale region suggesting that the migration from the Pontic steppe reached all the way into the Swiss Plateau. However, our evidence suggests that the onset of that transition may have started even earlier in Switzerland compared to the Middle-Elbe-Saale region.

    https://boris.unibe.ch/133227/

    Aesch seems to be from the Dolmen of Aesch. Apparently, according to the article, C14 dated to 2.400 BCE.
    The relevant site in Aeschen is dated to 3,100-2,500 BCE. Here's another paper from many of the same authors that was published last year. See Table 4.

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...0.1002/oa.2791

  14. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Generalissimo For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (04-11-2020),  Alain (04-10-2020),  etrusco (04-10-2020),  Hando (04-13-2020),  jdean (04-10-2020),  JMcB (04-10-2020),  Onur Dincer (04-10-2020),  rms2 (04-10-2020),  T101 (04-14-2020)

  15. #8
    Registered Users
    Posts
    79
    Sex

    Is this kind of study really what we need right now? We already have tons of ancient dna from Central and Western Europe, why not focus on the unsamples regions in the world?

  16. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to manesh For This Useful Post:

     Hando (04-13-2020),  Mansamusa (04-10-2020),  siberoberingian (04-10-2020),  ThaYamamoto (04-10-2020)

  17. #9
    Registered Users
    Posts
    608
    Sex
    Location
    lombardy
    Nationality
    italian

    Italy Portugal Order of Christ Russia Imperial Canada Quebec Spanish Empire (1506-1701) Vatican
    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    Here's a working abstract for this paper from last year.

    In this study, we investigate genome-wide data from 97 individuals from the Swiss Plateau, Southern Germany and the Alsace Region in France that span the transition from the Neolithic to the Bronze Age (4500 to 2000 BCE). Our results show a similar genetic process as reported for the Middle-Elbe-Saale region suggesting that the migration from the Pontic steppe reached all the way into the Swiss Plateau. However, our evidence suggests that the onset of that transition may have started even earlier in Switzerland compared to the Middle-Elbe-Saale region.

    https://boris.unibe.ch/133227/



    The relevant site in Aeschen is dated to 3,100-2,500 BCE. Here's another paper from many of the same authors that was published last year. See Table 4.

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...0.1002/oa.2791
    Richard Rocca on Eurogenes said that he spoke with the authors and they said to him that the R1b's and steppe ancestry were all post 2200 BC. So not even Beaker but early bronze age.
    Who is wrong here. hint: Richard ( friendly speaking)

  18. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to etrusco For This Useful Post:

     Hando (04-13-2020),  parasar (04-10-2020),  vettor (04-12-2020)

  19. #10
    Registered Users
    Posts
    4,311
    Sex

    Here are a couple of the G2a males.

    Unlike Aesch25, which clusters very strongly with Corded Ware samples, these two cluster with Neolithic farmers.

    Aesch23_scaled,0.122929,0.180764,0.047517,-0.03876,0.078476,-0.026495,-0.004935,-0.001154,0.062584,0.091483,0.000325,0.016036,-0.032705,-0.013212,-0.013029,-0.006497,-0.002347,0.002407,-0.004399,-0.003627,0.007986,0.003833,-0.011462,-0.03627,-0.002754
    MX212_scaled,0.126344,0.169593,0.059208,-0.030039,0.09294,-0.027052,-0.001645,0.000231,0.073833,0.077633,-0.001949,0.01109,-0.029137,-0.019267,-0.015336,0.017369,0.024251,0.004181,0.001006,-0.008754,0.016221,0.004204,-0.012202,-0.038439,-0.005389

    Aesch23,0.0108,0.0178,0.0126,-0.012,0.0255,-0.0095,-0.0021,-0.0005,0.0306,0.0502,0.0002,0.0107,-0.022,-0.0096,-0.0096,-0.0049,-0.0018,0.0019,-0.0035,-0.0029,0.0064,0.0031,-0.0093,-0.0301,-0.0023
    MX212,0.0111,0.0167,0.0157,-0.0093,0.0302,-0.0097,-0.0007,0.0001,0.0361,0.0426,-0.0012,0.0074,-0.0196,-0.014,-0.0113,0.0131,0.0186,0.0033,0.0008,-0.007,0.013,0.0034,-0.0099,-0.0319,-0.0045


  20. The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to Generalissimo For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (04-11-2020),  Alain (04-10-2020),  Chnodomar (04-10-2020),  Erikl86 (04-14-2020),  Hando (04-13-2020),  jdean (04-10-2020),  JMcB (04-10-2020),  Michalis Moriopoulos (04-10-2020),  Onur Dincer (04-10-2020),  parasar (04-10-2020),  Psynome (04-19-2020),  R.Rocca (04-11-2020)

Page 1 of 39 12311 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 59
    Last Post: Today, 03:01 AM
  2. Replies: 14
    Last Post: 05-31-2020, 10:12 AM
  3. Replies: 12
    Last Post: 01-07-2020, 09:53 PM
  4. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 06-30-2019, 02:30 PM
  5. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 04-10-2018, 11:10 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •