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Thread: Post your Michal K25

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirtan24 View Post
    What is Ghost_SISBA3-Sso? Is it something like AASI?
    Also, which is more accurate, the first or the second code?
    And where can I get the source code/coordinates for these components? Thanks!
    Ghost is a 50-50 mixture of the most AASI rich samples we have. They were probably migrants from the Gangetic plains.

    Distance to: Ghost_SISBA3-Sso-scaled
    0.02090371 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2:I8728
    0.02784405 PAK_Saidu_Sharif_H_o:I7722
    0.03667948 IND_Roopkund_A:I7035
    0.04044170 IND_Roopkund_A:I2868
    0.04209922 IND_Roopkund_A:I3342
    0.05139216 IND_Roopkund_A:I6944
    0.05277172 IND_Roopkund_A:I3343
    0.05331426 IND_Roopkund_A:I7036
    0.05884493 IND_Roopkund_A:I6942
    0.05978294 IND_Roopkund_A:I6941
    0.07221877 IND_Roopkund_A:I6946

    In modern terms it is closer to tribals/ backward castes-
    Distance to: Ghost_SISBA3-Sso-scaled
    0.02449180 Piramalai
    0.02816198 Yadava
    0.02906956 Velamas
    0.03038625 Kurumba
    0.03157256 Maratha
    0.03288031 Dusadh
    0.03699945 Chamar
    0.04003914 Sakilli
    0.04060724 Kamboj_o
    0.04167948 Uttar_Pradesh
    0.04212799 Kol
    0.04389435 Dharkar
    0.04511653 Kanjar
    0.04556068 Pallan
    0.04585921 Gujarati
    0.04949099 Chenchu
    0.05049016 Punjabi_Lahore

    The Kaz ghost is close to Tajik like-
    Distance to: Kaz121_125_206_Saka_o_scaled
    0.04157313 Tajik_Rushan
    0.04396479 Tajik_Yagnobi
    0.05107240 Tajik_Shugnan
    0.06875670 Darginian
    0.06917613 Avar
    0.07004953 Tajik_Ishkashim
    0.07070646 Lak
    0.07071923 Kaitag
    0.07087038 Tabasaran
    0.07543823 Kubachinian
    0.07553737 Tajik
    0.08613636 Kumyk
    0.08963686 Chechen

    Distance to: Kaz121_125_206_Saka_o_scaled
    0.01998672 KAZ_KangjuA121
    0.03256694 KAZ_KangjuA206
    0.03400950 Saka_Tian_Shan_oA53
    0.03486376 KAZ_KangjuA125
    0.03530504 KAZ_Turk_oA224
    0.03865227 TKM_IAA382
    0.04053406 Sarmatian_KAZA30
    0.04171125 Saka_Kazakh_steppe_o2A19
    0.04298839 Saka_Kazakh_steppe_o1A17
    0.04313202 KAZ_Taldysay_MLBA2:I4794
    0.04508010 KAZ_WusunA220

    Also, which is more accurate, the first or the second code?
    There is nothing like that. One is a base calculator. Other has populations that a bit more recent including what you would find in Harappa/ early Indo Aryans. That Kaz sample is more like one of the branches of the early Indo Aryans.

    You can find all the samples here. The ghosts are made by me for Pegasus.
    http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/0...obal25_12.html

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by agent_lime View Post
    Ghost is a 50-50 mixture of the most AASI rich samples we have. They were probably migrants from the Gangetic plains.

    Distance to: Ghost_SISBA3-Sso-scaled
    0.02090371 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2:I8728
    0.02784405 PAK_Saidu_Sharif_H_o:I7722
    0.03667948 IND_Roopkund_A:I7035
    0.04044170 IND_Roopkund_A:I2868
    0.04209922 IND_Roopkund_A:I3342
    0.05139216 IND_Roopkund_A:I6944
    0.05277172 IND_Roopkund_A:I3343
    0.05331426 IND_Roopkund_A:I7036
    0.05884493 IND_Roopkund_A:I6942
    0.05978294 IND_Roopkund_A:I6941
    0.07221877 IND_Roopkund_A:I6946

    In modern terms it is closer to tribals/ backward castes-
    Distance to: Ghost_SISBA3-Sso-scaled
    0.02449180 Piramalai
    0.02816198 Yadava
    0.02906956 Velamas
    0.03038625 Kurumba
    0.03157256 Maratha
    0.03288031 Dusadh
    0.03699945 Chamar
    0.04003914 Sakilli
    0.04060724 Kamboj_o
    0.04167948 Uttar_Pradesh
    0.04212799 Kol
    0.04389435 Dharkar
    0.04511653 Kanjar
    0.04556068 Pallan
    0.04585921 Gujarati
    0.04949099 Chenchu
    0.05049016 Punjabi_Lahore
    why do you say Ghost to be migrants from Gangetic plains, when in distance it is Closer to South Indian Castes?

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  5. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by discreetmaverick View Post
    why do you say Ghost to be migrants from Gangetic plains, when in distance it is Closer to South Indian Castes?
    We don't know the demographics of the Gangetic plains before a full fledged Indo Aryan invasion. There are some sample from Rakhigarhi that aren't ever going to get released. Further, the distance is huge. Roughly, 4000km between Shahr-e Sukhteh(I8728 IVCp) to Southern India, 3000km to the SWAT(I7722). Chronologically, this is a bit before climate change pushed the Harappans to peninsular India. Piramalai are IMO among the closest folks to the Southern end of the Harappan civilization.

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  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by agent_lime View Post
    This is a very small data point in a calculator for fun.

    Here is a more accurate run-

    Code:
    Target: agentlime_scaled
    Distance: 3.1119% / 0.03111857
    41.2	IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    24.6	RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
    16.6	AASI_NW
    7.8	RUS_MA1
    5.8	BedouinB
    2.8	NPL_Chokhopani_2700BP
    1.0	Anatolia_Barcin_N
    0.2	MAR_Iberomaurusian
    
    Target: KB_scaled
    Distance: 1.7557% / 0.01755735
    38.4	IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    18.8	RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
    17.6	AASI_NW
    8.8	Simulated_AASI
    6.8	RUS_MA1
    4.6	Anatolia_Barcin_N
    2.6	NPL_Chokhopani_2700BP
    2.2	RUS_West_Siberia_N
    0.2	MAR_Iberomaurusian
    You carry a more Gangetic AASI rich population than I do-

    Code:
    Target: KB_scaled
    Distance: 2.0262% / 0.02026201 | ADC: 0.25x
    42.4	IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2-CUSTOM-MiddleCluster
    33.4	Ghost_SISBA3-Sso-scaled
    13.6	Kaz121_125_206_Saka_o_scaled
    10.6	RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
    
    Target: agentlime_scaled
    Distance: 3.1859% / 0.03185901 | ADC: 0.25x
    59.6	IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2-CUSTOM-MiddleCluster
    40.4	Kaz121_125_206_Saka_o_scaled
    Just curious to know, which AASI Source is possible best source of AASI for you that can improve the fit like Kirtan?

    Quote Originally Posted by agent_lime View Post
    We don't know the demographics of the Gangetic plains before a full fledged Indo Aryan invasion.
    Do we know for Penisular India, especially Maharastra as Marathi is Indo Aryan? Did Indo Europeans immediately or shortly after landing in Indus valley moved to the east?


    Quote Originally Posted by agent_lime View Post
    There are some sample from Rakhigarhi that aren't ever going to get released. Further, the distance is huge. Roughly, 4000km between Shahr-e Sukhteh(I8728 IVCp) to Southern India, 3000km to the SWAT(I7722). Chronologically, this is a bit before climate change pushed the Harappans to peninsular India.
    Kirtan is from Audichya brahmin community-based in Saurashtra? Are you suggesting AASI Source in Saurashtra was like or close Gangetic AASI of Pre - Aryan invasion world?

    Quote Originally Posted by agent_lime View Post
    Piramalai are IMO among the closest folks to the Southern end of the Harappan civilization.
    The southern most site of the Indus valley civilisation is Daimabad in Maharashtra.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indus_Valley_Civilisation

    Southern end do you mean Daimabad ?

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  9. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by discreetmaverick View Post
    Just curious to know, which AASI Source is possible best source of AASI for you that can improve the fit like Kirtan?
    There is no best source. Various folks have tried to isolate AASI using qpAdm/ modelling/ several papers. They all cause some excess Steppe to be needed to some extant. The more divergent the AASI is the, more artificating it shows.

    Do we know for Penisular India, especially Maharastra as Marathi is Indo Aryan? Did Indo Europeans immediately or shortly after landing in Indus valley moved to the east?
    Early Indo Aryans were in the North West then moved down. You can check the wikipedia articles.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-A...-1100_BCE).png
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-A...0-500_BCE).png


    Kirtan is from Audichya brahmin community-based in Saurashtra? Are you suggesting AASI Source in Saurashtra was like or close Gangetic AASI of Pre - Aryan invasion world?
    I am not suggesting anything like that. Large majority of Indians take some AASI rich ancestry. Even the Indo Aryan castes like Brahmins. The original inhabitants will be more similar to Patels who are the agriculturists from that area.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indus_Valley_Civilisation

    Southern end do you mean Daimabad ?
    We don't have genomes to say definitely. I am just speculating.

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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by agent_lime View Post
    We don't know the demographics of the Gangetic plains before a full fledged Indo Aryan invasion. There are some sample from Rakhigarhi that aren't ever going to get released. Further, the distance is huge. Roughly, 4000km between Shahr-e Sukhteh(I8728 IVCp) to Southern India, 3000km to the SWAT(I7722). Chronologically, this is a bit before climate change pushed the Harappans to peninsular India. Piramalai are IMO among the closest folks to the Southern end of the Harappan civilization.
    You can figure it out actually , for various Gangetic populations its around 45-60% at the time of initial IIr mixture, this in line with the SPGT IVC ancestor being between close to 1459, that proxy of Chad's is actually where Rakhigarhi would be 35-37%. Its a good 1200-1500 years before Indo Aryans land in Haryana/Bhagwanpura , so its quite clear that AASI shot up after 2000 BC.

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  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by discreetmaverick View Post

    Kirtan is from Audichya brahmin community-based in Saurashtra? Are you suggesting AASI Source in Saurashtra was like or close Gangetic AASI of Pre - Aryan invasion world?
    The Audichyas migrated only about a 1000 years ago to Saurashtra from the northern Gangetic plains and the Northwest. So it is possible that my AASI source stems from somewhere around the plains. I still haven't been able to find out the exact location from where our family came, but my best guess (based on surnames and family trees) is that my father's side was somewhere from the Kashmir area with a heavier Iran_N and Caucasus ancestry and my mother's side came from the Gangetic plains, with a somewhat higher AASI ancestry. But as I said, it is just a speculation.

    Would you guys have any idea how I could better isolate this (with G25 modelling)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by agent_lime View Post
    There is no best source. Various folks have tried to isolate AASI using qpAdm/ modelling/ several papers. They all cause some excess Steppe to be needed to some extant. The more divergent the AASI is the, more artificating it shows.
    I am still curious why you don't show any AASI at all (Ghost_SISBA3)? It is understandable that as a Punjabi Khatri your AASI will be relatively low compared to mine, but in the model above you don't get any Ghost_SISBA3? Does that mean you have no AASI? Or is it covered by SISBA2? As discreetmaverick said, it would be interesting to know what kind of AASI source you have in your ancestry and how it differs from mine.

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  16. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirtan24 View Post
    The Audichyas migrated only about a 1000 years ago to Saurashtra from the northern Gangetic plains and the Northwest. So it is possible that my AASI source stems from somewhere around the plains. I still haven't been able to find out the exact location from where our family came, but my best guess (based on surnames and family trees) is that my father's side was somewhere from the Kashmir area with a heavier Iran_N and Caucasus ancestry and my mother's side came from the Gangetic plains, with a somewhat higher AASI ancestry. But as I said, it is just a speculation.

    Would you guys have any idea how I could better isolate this (with G25 modelling)?
    What are common surnames between Audichya and Kashmir brahmins?

  17. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirtan24 View Post
    I am still curious why you don't show any AASI at all (Ghost_SISBA3)? It is understandable that as a Punjabi Khatri your AASI will be relatively low compared to mine, but in the model above you don't get any Ghost_SISBA3? Does that mean you have no AASI? Or is it covered by SISBA2? As discreetmaverick said, it would be interesting to know what kind of AASI source you have in your ancestry and how it differs from mine.
    That's not the case. The Indus Periphery (BA1-BA2-BA3) has 3 sets of samples. One is the most Iran_N shifted samples are probably natives. BA2 are neighbors from Western Harappa, BA3 are from the Southern Harappa.

    BA1. These guys are clearly not the base population.

    Code:
    Target: IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1:I8725
    Distance: 3.6003% / 0.03600294 | ADC: 0.25x
    80.2	IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    12.6	RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
    4.2	AASI_NW
    3.0	Anatolia_Barcin_N
    
    Target: IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1:I8724
    Distance: 5.1431% / 0.05143132 | ADC: 0.25x
    83.2	IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    8.6	RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
    4.6	AASI_NW
    3.6	Anatolia_Barcin_N
    
    Target: IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1:I11478
    Distance: 3.0714% / 0.03071407 | ADC: 0.25x
    80.6	IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    7.0	RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
    6.6	AASI_NW
    5.8	RUS_West_Siberia_N
    
    Target: IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1:I11476
    Distance: 4.3293% / 0.04329263 | ADC: 0.25x
    75.0	IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    14.8	RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
    10.2	Anatolia_Barcin_N
    
    Target: IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1:I11474
    Distance: 2.9604% / 0.02960405 | ADC: 0.25x
    76.6	IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    14.6	RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
    6.8	AASI_NW
    2.0	Anatolia_Barcin_N
    
    Target: IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1:I11462
    Distance: 3.2744% / 0.03274394 | ADC: 0.25x
    83.0	IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    7.8	RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
    5.8	AASI_NW
    3.4	Anatolia_Barcin_N
    BA2. Some of these are the base populations for NW SWAT (I1459). Pashtuns probably take a mix of both BA1 and BA2. Gangetic populations take mostly from I8728 (which is the old BA3). You take from both (BA2 and BA3), or I take from a mix of BA1 and BA3. The middle cluster is roughly 30% AASI. I get about 59% of it, which lands me about 17-18% AASI.
    Code:
    Target: IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2:I8728
    Distance: 2.0814% / 0.02081440 | ADC: 0.25x
    44.8	IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    30.8	Simulated_AASI
    14.8	AASI_NW
    9.6	RUS_MA1
    
    Target: IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2:I8726
    Distance: 2.0846% / 0.02084590 | ADC: 0.25x
    70.6	IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    15.8	AASI_NW
    8.6	RUS_MA1
    5.0	RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
    
    Target: IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2:I11466
    Distance: 4.5506% / 0.04550640 | ADC: 0.25x
    64.6	IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    18.4	Simulated_AASI
    9.6	AASI_NW
    3.6	RUS_MA1
    2.6	RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
    1.2	Anatolia_Barcin_N
    
    Target: IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2:I11459
    Distance: 3.5180% / 0.03517961 | ADC: 0.25x
    51.4	IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    17.6	Simulated_AASI
    17.0	AASI_NW
    8.8	RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
    5.2	RUS_MA1
    
    Target: IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2:I11456
    Distance: 2.7206% / 0.02720630 | ADC: 0.25x
    60.4	IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    22.0	Simulated_AASI
    9.6	AASI_NW
    8.0	RUS_MA1
    
    Target: IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2:CUSTOM-MiddleCluster
    Distance: 2.5486% / 0.02548597 | ADC: 0.25x
    59.8	IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    18.4	Simulated_AASI
    12.8	AASI_NW
    7.8	RUS_MA1
    1.2	RUS_Sintashta_MLBA

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