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Thread: J2b-L283

  1. #161
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    J-Y182183*
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    H16-b*

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    Two new sample matches on YFULL.
    Screenshot_20220226-130518.png

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  3. #162
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    J-L283

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    Quote Originally Posted by slamberty View Post
    Two new sample matches on YFULL.
    Screenshot_20220226-130518.png
    Interesting development. As can be seen in the live version of the YTree, they share 18 SNPs below J-Y182183 with an Italian sample from the paper "A finely resolved phylogeny of Y chromosome Hg J illuminates the processes of Phoenician and Greek colonizations in the Mediterranean".

    The TMRCA with the Italian sample should be Medieval. So since J-Y23094's center of diversity is around the Adriatic, their lineage should've migrated to Russia in the Middle Ages or perhaps even later.

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  5. #163
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    New G25 coords (credits go to Altvred):

    Code:
    J-L283:DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA010,0.129758,0.12491,0.065619,0.059755,0.044624,0.02761,0.012456,0.013153,0.000205,-0.023873,-0.007307,-0.010641,0.011596,0.021056,-0.0057,-0.010342,-0.007041,-0.007221,0.005908,-0.007879,-0.000749,-0.001237,0.002958,-0.005904,-0.002036
    Code:
    J-L283:SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK15,0.121791,0.152329,0.046009,0.012597,0.047393,-0.000837,0.011751,0.002769,0.016362,0.023508,-0.000974,0.00015,-0.007582,0.000688,-0.004343,-0.009944,-0.014342,-0.006461,0.001006,-0.000875,0.000374,-0.000124,-0.007765,-0.013737,-0.003113
    J-L283:RUS_North_Caucasus_MBA:KDC001,0.106994,0.127957,-0.069767,-0.034884,-0.053241,-0.004741,0.012926,-0.007615,-0.07281,-0.036812,-0.002761,0.01094,-0.02438,0.002615,0.002579,-0.022142,0.013299,-0.004054,-0.016592,0.018759,0.017968,0.004822,0.000616,-0.014942,-0.013412
    J-L283:ITA_Sardinia_Nuragic:ORC003,0.127482,0.173656,0.044877,-0.052649,0.082477,-0.036814,-0.006345,-0.002308,0.056449,0.096403,0.001461,0.019932,-0.039692,-0.014313,-0.017372,-0.000928,0.012908,0.003167,0.007542,-0.009379,0.009109,0,-0.020459,-0.028438,-0.000838
    J-L283:ITA_Sardinia_Nuragic:ORC007,0.133173,0.18178,0.035826,-0.056202,0.082785,-0.028447,-0.004465,-0.006461,0.061153,0.102052,-0.000487,0.017984,-0.029583,-0.013625,-0.020494,-0.001326,0.007953,-0.000887,0.003645,-0.005002,0.006364,0.000371,-0.010846,-0.028317,-0.00455
    J-L283:ITA_Sardinia_Nuragic:ORC008,0.132035,0.174671,0.044877,-0.054264,0.083092,-0.035698,-0.008225,0.001846,0.059516,0.099501,-0.008607,0.014237,-0.031516,-0.004129,-0.014386,-0.014187,-0.004955,0.003927,0.002388,-0.013006,-0.007362,-0.006059,-0.00986,-0.028438,0.005149
    J-L283:ITA_Sardinia_Nuragic:I10553,0.12862,0.180764,0.044877,-0.055233,0.083092,-0.033188,-0.00564,0.001615,0.058289,0.099683,-0.005034,0.013038,-0.029881,0.001927,-0.016015,-0.010077,-0.003912,0.009248,0.003268,-0.004877,0.009858,0.011623,-0.011339,-0.034463,0.000838
    J-L283:HRV_MBA:I4331,0.12862,0.151314,0.028284,-0.007429,0.038776,-0.006972,-0.00705,-0.006,0.003681,0.028064,0.006171,0.010341,-0.017542,-0.003578,-0.0076,0.006497,0.008084,-0.003041,0.006159,-0.011631,-0.005865,-0.001113,-0.00037,0.003856,-0.001197
    J-L283:ITA_Etruscan:RMPR474b,0.126344,0.149283,0.034318,-0.007752,0.036622,-0.005299,0.003995,-0.004615,0.014726,0.028793,-0.002111,0.015286,-0.01115,-0.002064,-0.00285,0.003182,0.006258,0.007221,0.012318,-0.002626,-0.003369,0.008037,0.000863,-0.000482,-0.001796
    J-L283:ITA_Rome_MA:RMPR54,0.113823,0.145221,-0.015839,-0.04199,0.018157,-0.013666,0.003055,-0.005538,0.008999,0.017677,-0.002761,0.004946,-0.005054,-0.000413,-0.004614,0.001856,0.004563,-0.003801,0.010182,-0.007504,0.000125,0.006677,0.001972,0.003253,-0.000718
    J-L283:ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR116,0.126344,0.139128,0.053551,0.020026,0.044008,0.001394,0.00047,0.007154,0.01943,0.01877,0.000812,0.006444,-0.014123,-0.009496,0.008822,0.004906,-0.001825,-0.002154,0,-0.003752,0.003494,0.002844,-0.005793,0.002048,0.00455
    J-L283:VK2020_SWE_Oland_VA:VK346,0.118376,0.136081,0.05506,0.036499,0.038776,0.010598,0.00987,0.008307,0.004909,0.008747,-0.01088,0.002398,-0.007284,0.004542,0.00475,-0.006232,0.000261,-0.004941,0.012193,0.003752,-0.003619,0.001855,-0.003328,0.017352,-0.000239
    J-L283:VEN006,0.103579,0.141159,-0.009428,-0.034561,0.010156,-0.016176,-0.014806,-0.003461,-0.005522,0.027882,0.006171,0.001349,-0.006392,-0.004404,-0.003529,0.012729,0.003781,-0.008868,-0.001006,-0.001876,-0.000749,-0.009027,0.002465,0.002892,-0.00479
    J-L283:ITA_Venosa_EMA:VEN013,0.102441,0.146236,-0.014708,-0.046189,0.006155,-0.011992,0.00329,0.002538,0.001227,0.016948,0.001786,0.003747,-0.001487,-0.002615,-0.011672,-0.01843,-0.011083,0.00076,-0.005154,-0.007504,0.001497,0.003215,-0.013064,0.00735,0.008023
    J-L283:HRV_EIA:I23995,0.122929,0.145221,0.026776,-0.001938,0.032621,0.003904,0.00658,-0.000462,0.008999,0.026242,-0.00406,0.008542,-0.019772,-0.002615,-0.004479,0.001326,0.005346,0.005701,0.004399,0.002001,-0.000374,-0.002597,-0.003821,-0.008435,0.001916
    J-L283:HRV_EIA:I24638,0.135449,0.149283,0.035072,0.00323,0.039084,0.006136,0.005405,0.005769,0.015953,0.033167,-0.000487,0.008542,-0.018583,-0.007569,0.005972,-0.003315,0.001434,0.004687,0.006411,0.001876,-0.003619,0.004946,0.003451,-0.007953,-0.004431
    J-L283:HRV_EIA:I26742,0.124067,0.153345,0.024136,-0.007429,0.035699,-0.008367,0.00141,0.004154,0.014521,0.028793,0.003248,0.008692,-0.016353,-0.010459,-0.004614,0.001193,0.006258,-0.000633,0.008925,-0.008004,-0.003119,0.00272,0.002588,0.006145,-0.006227
    J-L283:HRV_EIA:I23911,0.125205,0.138112,0.032055,-0.006137,0.044624,-0.002789,-0.002115,0.001615,0.01493,0.036083,-0.004709,0.012439,-0.013677,-0.011147,0.003393,-0.008884,-0.001304,0.001774,0.006913,-0.004752,0.001248,0.002349,-0.001479,-0.000964,-0.003473
    J-L283:HRV_EIA:I24639,0.126344,0.152329,0.036204,0.002261,0.031698,0.000558,0.001175,0.003,0.006749,0.023691,-0.000812,0.009292,-0.012933,-0.002202,0.00095,-0.001591,-0.009779,-0.001267,0.004525,-0.006878,-0.012977,0.003586,0.003081,-0.004338,0.004311
    J-L283:HRV_EIA:I24882,0.134311,0.150298,0.036204,-0.001615,0.040931,-0.007251,0.001175,-0.004384,0.002659,0.018224,0.002273,0.01124,-0.011893,-0.013349,-0.001764,-0.000928,0.003912,0.000633,0.00264,-0.004127,0.000998,0.004081,0.00493,0.00723,-0.009939
    J-L283:HRV_MBA:I26726,0.121791,0.144205,0.032432,-0.012274,0.026466,-0.000279,-0.006815,-0.001154,0.005931,0.030069,0.008444,0.006145,-0.029137,0.001789,-0.000814,-0.017634,-0.01369,-0.000633,0.014078,-0.010505,-0.004617,0.004575,0.002342,0.004458,-0.001317
    J-L283:HUN_IA_La_Tene_o:I4998,0.121791,0.159438,0.016216,-0.023902,0.036007,-0.01004,-0.00329,0.003692,0.006545,0.03098,0.006333,0.004046,-0.017096,-0.008808,-0.011943,0.009414,0.025034,-0.002787,0.005908,0.009379,-0.003868,0.008779,0.00912,-0.002771,-0.007784
    J-L283:ITA_Daunians:ORD014,0.134311,0.151314,0.031301,-0.020672,0.029236,0.019801,0.00282,-0.003692,0.036201,0.041368,0.00747,-0.002847,-0.00996,-0.003028,-0.022122,-0.009679,-0.019427,0.011782,-0.003017,0.014132,-0.006489,0.016569,0.015529,-0.00494,-0.004431
    J-L283:SVN_EIA:I22940,0.121791,0.149283,0.038466,-0.008721,0.037853,0.001952,-0.000235,0,0.015544,0.033167,0.004709,0.006594,-0.025272,-0.000275,-0.005157,-0.020684,-0.011995,0.007601,0.002263,-0.003126,-0.006613,0.004081,-0.003821,-0.006868,0.001437
    J-L283:SVN_EIA:I5691,0.130897,0.148267,0.0445,0.00646,0.043085,-0.003068,-0.00141,0.000231,0.018816,0.028064,0.001786,0.008992,-0.01888,-0.007707,0.002443,0.000133,-0.000522,0.003927,-0.00352,-0.000375,-0.001373,0.005812,-0.000739,0.003012,-0.000359
    J-L283:DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA010,0.129758,0.12491,0.065619,0.059755,0.044624,0.02761,0.012456,0.013153,0.000205,-0.023873,-0.007307,-0.010641,0.011596,0.021056,-0.0057,-0.010342,-0.007041,-0.007221,0.005908,-0.007879,-0.000749,-0.001237,0.002958,-0.005904,-0.002036
    KRA010 is under J-Z1043. The sample dates to the early 7th century and was found in Saxony-Anhalt.


    Several individuals in the site model as primarily Slavic + partially southern European:

    Target: DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA001
    Distance: 1.5426% / 0.01542644 | R3P
    58.4 Baltic_EST_BA
    24.6 ITA_Etruscan_Chiusi
    17.0 NLD_LNB2_Bell_Beaker_low_res

    It's interesting that he's the only sample from the site which consistently picks LBA/EIA Slovenia, where J-L283 samples have been found, as one of the sources of his ancestral components.

    Target: DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA010
    Distance: 1.4560% / 0.01456006 | R4P
    37.2 RUS_Ingria_IA
    32.4 SVN_LBA_EIA
    25.6 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
    4.8 TKM_Parkhai_MBA


    Target: DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA010
    Distance: 1.8607% / 0.01860702 | R3P
    65.8 RUS_Ingria_IA
    29.6 SVN_LBA_EIA
    4.6 TKM_Parkhai_MBA


    Comparison with modern populations:

    Distance to: DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA005
    0.02140688 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr
    0.02184991 Sorb_Niederlausitz
    0.02207453 Ukrainian_Rivne
    0.02231149 Polish
    0.02443622 Ukrainian_Chernihiv

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  7. #164
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    J-L283

    Albania United States of America Kosovo European Union
    In J-Y21045>PH4679 news:

    A new Big Y-700 result at J-M241 project from a sample with Italian paternal ancestry came out as J-PH4679* (unfortunately, no specific location within Italy is currently known).

    This branch contains a significant portion of Albanian J2b-L283, where ~85% of Albanian J-PH4679 falls under the younger J-PH1751 subclade. The TMRCA with the Albanian samples is estimated at ~3300 ybp (it should rise from ~3100 ybp if this sample is uploaded to YFull). This relationship may be explained as a result of Messapian/Iapygian migrations across the Adriatic which are thought to have occurred ~1000 BCE. We also have haplogroup J2b-L283 confirmed among the ancient Daunian samples, however no deeper classification is possible due to low coverage. Other scenarios, such as a later migration with Arbėreshė people is also possible, though I think less likely as we currently have an isolated ~3300 ybp lineage. In any case, this result increases "Adriatic" diversity for this branch.


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  9. #165
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    J-Y167175 (J2b)
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    J1c5a1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trojet View Post
    In J-Y21045>PH4679 news:

    A new Big Y-700 result at J-M241 project from a sample with Italian paternal ancestry came out as J-PH4679* (unfortunately, no specific location within Italy is currently known).

    This branch contains a significant portion of Albanian J2b-L283, where ~85% of Albanian J-PH4679 falls under the younger J-PH1751 subclade. The TMRCA with the Albanian samples is estimated at ~3300 ybp (it should rise from ~3100 ybp if this sample is uploaded to YFull). This relationship may be explained as a result of Messapian/Iapygian migrations across the Adriatic which are thought to have occurred ~1000 BCE. We also have haplogroup J2b-L283 confirmed among the ancient Daunian samples, however no deeper classification is possible due to low coverage. Other scenarios, such as a later migration with Arbėreshė people is also possible, though I think less likely as we currently have an isolated ~3300 ybp lineage. In any case, this result increases "Adriatic" diversity for this branch.

    Are there G25 coordinates for these Albanian branches?
    Target: Ukrainian_Dnipro:YF83820
    Distance: 6.5757% / 0.06575750
    50.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    27.4 Anatolia_Barcin_N
    14.0 WHG
    8.2 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
    0.2 Han

    Ukrainian_Dnipro:YF83820,0.127482,0.12491,0.064488 ,0.048773,0.037853,0.018686,0.009165,0.010615,-0.00409,-0.02041,-0.000162,-0.006744,0.012042,0.023121,-0.008686,-0.01127,-0.009779,0.00076,0.003142,0.002001,-0.000873,-0.006925,0.000986,-0.001566,0.002155

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  11. #166
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    J-L283

    Albania United States of America Kosovo European Union
    Three new samples have been added to the J2b-L283 ancient DNA map:



    Considering the timing and the location, NEO806 should be a Iapygian (Paucetian?) sample. J2b-L283 has been confirmed among the Daunians as well, though no deeper classification is available due to low coverage. This sample suggests that Iapygians carried at least some J-Z638 subclades, which is the predominant J2b-L283 branch among the Albanians.

    With regards to R11751 and R11753, considering the phylogeny of J-Z38240>PH1602 and since we have older J-Z38240 aDNA samples from modern Croatia, their more distant origin likely lies somewhere in the eastern Adriatic.
    Kerkouane, which is in the Tunisian coast, seems to have been a trade town: "Hardly any agriculture: this town lived for trade (with Phoenicia itself and the Greek world) and trades (stonemasons, purple painters, potters...). Still, several fishermen". https://www.livius.org/articles/place/kerkouane/

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  13. #167
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    [quoted post deleted by Moderator]

    I think that you should do some more personal reading about the phylogeny of J-PH1602.

    R11751 is PH1602+ as PH1602 had branched by ca. 1100-1000 BCE. J-Y86930 one of the main Illyrian clades which have been found so far is under PH1602. All five samples under Y86930 from Croatia are dated to 600-500 BCE. The same subclade may have been present among Daunians as one of the J-L283 found in EMA Venosa (formerly a Daunian and Oscan settlement) is very likely PH1602+.

    The Z38240 sample could be PH1602+ and it might be a case where low coverage didn't allow for a better reading. If the sample is Z38240+ and PH1602-, several possibilities open up including an intermediary location in Italy. There is one sample (RMPR474b) from Central Italy under J-Y45181 dated to ca. 600-500 BCE.

    Distance to: ITA_Etruscan:RMPR474b (distance to average profiles)
    0.01945338 HRV_EIA
    0.02266640 CZE_LBA_Knoviz_o3
    0.02319011 HRV_MBA
    0.02505265 HRV_LIA_La_Tene
    0.02708280 SRB_Mokrin_EBA_Maros_oAegean
    0.02778496 HUN_La_Tene
    0.02781764 Bell_Beaker_ITA
    0.02960184 SVN_EIA
    0.03143681 HUN_IA_Syrmian_SremGroup
    0.03145670 AUT_IA_La_Tene

    Distance to: ITA_Etruscan:RMPR474b (distance to individual profiles)
    0.01987500 HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ28
    0.02435449 HRV_EIA:I26742
    0.02454511 ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR110
    0.02468367 SVN_EIA:I5692
    0.02505265 HRV_LIA_La_Tene:I26735
    0.02607832 Bell_Beaker_CZE_late: PRU001.A0101
    0.02641739 HUN_IA_La_Tene:I25510
    0.02685310 HRV_EIA:I23995
    0.02836500 HRV_EIA:I23911
    0.02842100 HRV_MBA:I4331
    0.02868987 HRV_MBA:I26774

    This individual was either from one of the Illyrian groups in Italy or came directly from Illyria.

    A movement from Italy to Tunisia is very plausible, but nothing suggests a closer association with Phoenicians or ancient Greece.

    DNA studies have shown that humanity was always mobile. Individual and small-scale migrations were part of the social norm. Historians of antiquity have recorded only large-scale migrations which are usually accompanied by military invasion, colonization and population replacement. The movement of a few people from the eastern Adriatic (Illyria) or the western Adriatic (Italy) to a trade center of northern Africa (which at the time wouldn't even be considered a distant location) wouldn't be seen as something extraordinary which required to be recorded as a historical event.
    Last edited by Moderator; 05-07-2022 at 03:13 PM.

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  15. #168
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    J-L283

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruzmi View Post
    R11751 is PH1602+ as PH1602 had branched by ca. 1100-1000 BCE. J-Y86930 one of the main Illyrian clades which have been found so far is under PH1602. All five samples under Y86930 from Croatia are dated to 600-500 BCE. The same subclade may have been present among Daunians as one of the J-L283 found in EMA Venosa (formerly a Daunian and Oscan settlement) is very likely PH1602+.

    The Z38240 sample could be PH1602+ and it might be a case where low coverage didn't allow for a better reading. If the sample is Z38240+ and PH1602-, several possibilities open up including an intermediary location in Italy. There is one sample (RMPR474b) from Central Italy under J-Y45181 dated to ca. 600-500 BCE.
    Yes, VEN013 (Venosa, Basilicata) does have one positive read for Y86930 (under J-PH1602). As explained here, I was hesitant classifying him as such at the time. However, after seeing that J-Y86930 was confirmed among the Iron Age samples in Western Croatia, I think we are confident going with the Y86930 call, so I will update him as such in the map.

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  17. #169
    Banned
    Posts
    114
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Neo-Illyrian
    Nationality
    Kosovan
    Y-DNA (P)
    J2b-L283>Y52453
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c7a
    Y-DNA (M)
    J2b-L283>Z631>Z1043
    mtDNA (P)
    W3a1

    Kosovo
    Quote Originally Posted by Bruzmi View Post
    I think that you should do some more personal reading about the phylogeny of J-PH1602.

    R11751 is PH1602+ as PH1602 had branched by ca. 1100-1000 BCE. J-Y86930 one of the main Illyrian clades which have been found so far is under PH1602. All five samples under Y86930 from Croatia are dated to 600-500 BCE. The same subclade may have been present among Daunians as one of the J-L283 found in EMA Venosa (formerly a Daunian and Oscan settlement) is very likely PH1602+.

    The Z38240 sample could be PH1602+ and it might be a case where low coverage didn't allow for a better reading. If the sample is Z38240+ and PH1602-, several possibilities open up including an intermediary location in Italy. There is one sample (RMPR474b) from Central Italy under J-Y45181 dated to ca. 600-500 BCE.

    Distance to: ITA_Etruscan:RMPR474b (distance to average profiles)
    0.01945338 HRV_EIA
    0.02266640 CZE_LBA_Knoviz_o3
    0.02319011 HRV_MBA
    0.02505265 HRV_LIA_La_Tene
    0.02708280 SRB_Mokrin_EBA_Maros_oAegean
    0.02778496 HUN_La_Tene
    0.02781764 Bell_Beaker_ITA
    0.02960184 SVN_EIA
    0.03143681 HUN_IA_Syrmian_SremGroup
    0.03145670 AUT_IA_La_Tene

    Distance to: ITA_Etruscan:RMPR474b (distance to individual profiles)
    0.01987500 HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ28
    0.02435449 HRV_EIA:I26742
    0.02454511 ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR110
    0.02468367 SVN_EIA:I5692
    0.02505265 HRV_LIA_La_Tene:I26735
    0.02607832 Bell_Beaker_CZE_late: PRU001.A0101
    0.02641739 HUN_IA_La_Tene:I25510
    0.02685310 HRV_EIA:I23995
    0.02836500 HRV_EIA:I23911
    0.02842100 HRV_MBA:I4331
    0.02868987 HRV_MBA:I26774

    This individual was either from one of the Illyrian groups in Italy or came directly from Illyria.

    A movement from Italy to Tunisia is very plausible, but nothing suggests a closer association with Phoenicians or ancient Greece.

    DNA studies have shown that humanity was always mobile. Individual and small-scale migrations were part of the social norm. Historians of antiquity have recorded only large-scale migrations which are usually accompanied by military invasion, colonization and population replacement. The movement of a few people from the eastern Adriatic (Illyria) or the western Adriatic (Italy) to a trade center of northern Africa (which at the time wouldn't even be considered a distant location) wouldn't be seen as something extraordinary which required to be recorded as a historical event.
    He is stubborn in his non evidential "believes" in case you have not already seen all of his bizarre claims e.g. I-Y3120 being non Slavic and Illyrian.

  18. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Bruzmi View Post
    I think that you should do some more personal reading about the phylogeny of J-PH1602.

    R11751 is PH1602+ as PH1602 had branched by ca. 1100-1000 BCE. J-Y86930 one of the main Illyrian clades which have been found so far is under PH1602. All five samples under Y86930 from Croatia are dated to 600-500 BCE. The same subclade may have been present among Daunians as one of the J-L283 found in EMA Venosa (formerly a Daunian and Oscan settlement) is very likely PH1602+.

    The Z38240 sample could be PH1602+ and it might be a case where low coverage didn't allow for a better reading. If the sample is Z38240+ and PH1602-, several possibilities open up including an intermediary location in Italy. There is one sample (RMPR474b) from Central Italy under J-Y45181 dated to ca. 600-500 BCE.

    Distance to: ITA_Etruscan:RMPR474b (distance to average profiles)
    0.01945338 HRV_EIA
    0.02266640 CZE_LBA_Knoviz_o3
    0.02319011 HRV_MBA
    0.02505265 HRV_LIA_La_Tene
    0.02708280 SRB_Mokrin_EBA_Maros_oAegean
    0.02778496 HUN_La_Tene
    0.02781764 Bell_Beaker_ITA
    0.02960184 SVN_EIA
    0.03143681 HUN_IA_Syrmian_SremGroup
    0.03145670 AUT_IA_La_Tene

    Distance to: ITA_Etruscan:RMPR474b (distance to individual profiles)
    0.01987500 HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ28
    0.02435449 HRV_EIA:I26742
    0.02454511 ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR110
    0.02468367 SVN_EIA:I5692
    0.02505265 HRV_LIA_La_Tene:I26735
    0.02607832 Bell_Beaker_CZE_late: PRU001.A0101
    0.02641739 HUN_IA_La_Tene:I25510
    0.02685310 HRV_EIA:I23995
    0.02836500 HRV_EIA:I23911
    0.02842100 HRV_MBA:I4331
    0.02868987 HRV_MBA:I26774

    This individual was either from one of the Illyrian groups in Italy or came directly from Illyria.

    A movement from Italy to Tunisia is very plausible, but nothing suggests a closer association with Phoenicians or ancient Greece.

    DNA studies have shown that humanity was always mobile. Individual and small-scale migrations were part of the social norm. Historians of antiquity have recorded only large-scale migrations which are usually accompanied by military invasion, colonization and population replacement. The movement of a few people from the eastern Adriatic (Illyria) or the western Adriatic (Italy) to a trade center of northern Africa (which at the time wouldn't even be considered a distant location) wouldn't be seen as something extraordinary which required to be recorded as a historical event.
    I am talking about history here, illyrians werent named as such until 500bc. Illyrians had nothing to do with algeria at 500bc, you cannot deny that. Here is a link between phoenicians and ancient croatia and there are plenty of links of ancient greeks and croatia too.

    https://www.researchgate.net/publica...lmatia_Croatia

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._range.svg.png

    Do we have all the samples found in kerkouane or was it just these 2 j2b's?
    Last edited by ShpataEMadhe; 05-07-2022 at 02:58 PM.

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