Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: J2b-L283

  1. #1
    Registered Users
    Posts
    613
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    EV13>Z5018>FGC33625
    mtDNA (M)
    U1a1a

    Albania Kosovo

    J2b-L283

    There wasn't a L283 dedicated thread. Here is an image:


  2. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Johane Derite For This Useful Post:

     Archetype0ne (09-05-2020),  Falessio (07-11-2020),  gjenetiks (09-10-2020),  hartaisarlag (09-08-2020),  MiraOsijek (12-16-2020),  Polska (05-13-2020),  Trojet (04-23-2020)

  3. #2
    Registered Users
    Posts
    613
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    EV13>Z5018>FGC33625
    mtDNA (M)
    U1a1a

    Albania Kosovo
    Trojet's analysis of the oldest J2b-L283 in Europe so far:

    "I analyzed the BAM file of the J2b from this paper: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...05.18.101337v1

    Mokrin necropolis, an Early Bronze Age (2,100-1,800 BC) Maros culture site in North Serbia

    He is J2b-L283 >> Z615+ (Z584- Z2505-): https://yfull.com/tree/J-Z615/

    Male in burial 163, according to the paper: "At the opposite end of the status spectrum, a woman from the burial 181 was very likely the mother of the male in burial 163 and both were buried with grave goods indicative of higher social status (30). Since the male individual was an adult at the time of death, it remains unclear whether he inherited or acquired his status."

  4. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Johane Derite For This Useful Post:

     Archetype0ne (09-12-2020),  hartaisarlag (09-08-2020),  Trojet (09-05-2020)

  5. #3
    Registered Users
    Posts
    452
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Albanian
    Y-DNA (P)
    J-L283

    Albania United States of America Kosovo European Union
    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    Trojet's analysis of the oldest J2b-L283 in Europe so far:

    "I analyzed the BAM file of the J2b from this paper: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...05.18.101337v1

    Mokrin necropolis, an Early Bronze Age (2,100-1,800 BC) Maros culture site in North Serbia

    He is J2b-L283 >> Z615+ (Z584- Z2505-): https://yfull.com/tree/J-Z615/

    Male in burial 163, according to the paper: "At the opposite end of the status spectrum, a woman from the burial 181 was very likely the mother of the male in burial 163 and both were buried with grave goods indicative of higher social status (30). Since the male individual was an adult at the time of death, it remains unclear whether he inherited or acquired his status."
    Thanks for this dedicated J-L283 thread at Anthrogenica. I'll try to post important updates here as well.

    I also checked the Novel SNPs of the two modern J-Z615* samples. I only got negative results, so this ancient sample remains at J-Z615* and lived around 1000 years after this mutation formed (https://yfull.com/tree/J-Z615/).

    The downstream branch, J-Z597 (TMRCA 4400 ybp), looks pretty western Balkan, so it likely moved further west around the time this Mokrin sample lived. We already have I4331, dated ~3600 ybp, from southern Croatia which was J-Z597>Z2507>Y15058. And recently a BigY tester with origin from Krk, Croatia, tested Y146400+ FGC64027+ FGC64043-, which means he is splitting YFull's J-Y146400 branch:


    The expansion between J-L283 and Z615 looks less clear. We need older aDNA to understand this better, but my impression is it came via northern Black Sea route (per YFull estimates sometime between 6000 ybp and 4500 ybp), considering the ancient J-L283* from north Caucasus, and the modern Armenian J-L283*.
    Last edited by Trojet; 09-05-2020 at 01:58 PM.

  6. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Trojet For This Useful Post:

     Archetype0ne (09-12-2020),  Illyro-Vlach (09-06-2020),  Johane Derite (09-05-2020),  Principe (09-05-2020)

  7. #4
    Registered Users
    Posts
    40
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Albanian
    Nationality
    Macedonian
    Y-DNA (P)
    J2b2-L283-J-Y21878

    Albania North Macedonia European Union
    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    There wasn't a L283 dedicated thread. Here is an image:

    Thanks for starting the dedicated thread Johane. In case you made the graphic could you add the Basarab/Draculesti dynasties to the graphic?

    Thanks in advance.
    “Man cannot live without a permanent trust in something indestructible in himself, and at the same time that indestructible something as well as his trust in it may remain permanently concealed from him.”

    ― Franz Kafka

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Archetype0ne For This Useful Post:

     Johane Derite (09-21-2020)

  9. #5
    Registered Users
    Posts
    17
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    J2b2a J-PH1602
    mtDNA (M)
    T2a1b

    United States of America Poland Germany Wales England
    Question: When is this paper on the Ezero Culture and surrounding area going to be released? I’m wondering if there might be some ancient L283 samples that come to light? My understanding is that the samples are still being analyzed by the Reich Lab at Harvard. I have read that nothing will be published until 2021, but I’ve also seen some comments online indicating something might come out this year.

    There are these basal ancient samples from Karbino Balkaria and Armenia, the rest of the ancient samples are in Europe with the Z600 and YP91 L283 in Sardinia, the Y15058 in Croatia/Dalmatian Highlands, and now the oldest yet, Z615 from the Mokrin location, about 4000 years old. This Z615 is upstream from Z597, which proliferated in the Balkans and branched out from there. So it makes it seem like L283 came from a location further north than Balkans, but how did it get there from Caucasus? North of Black Sea route makes most sense to me, but still waiting on ancient samples from north of Black Sea or near vicinity (in vc of western steppe?) to bolster this hypothetical migratory route.
    Last edited by Polska; 10-21-2020 at 08:44 PM.

  10. #6
    Registered Users
    Posts
    298
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Bulgarian
    mtDNA (M)
    T2

    Bulgaria
    Quote Originally Posted by Polska View Post
    Question: When is this paper on the Ezero Culture and surrounding area going to be released? I’m wondering if there might be some ancient L283 samples that come to light? My understanding is that the samples are still being analyzed by the Reich Lab at Harvard. I have read that nothing will be published until 2021, but I’ve also seen some comments online indicating something might come out this year.
    In fact there is already one published Ezero sample in the study The Genomic History Of Southeastern Europe"". This is Bul10, Bulgaria_Ezero_EBA 3090-2924 calBCE (4396±20 BP, MAMS 26835), unfortuinately afemale. It shows normal admixture like other Balkan Early Bronze age sample with less Yamnaya, than Bul4 Yamnaya_Bulgaria from around the same age 3012-2900 cal BCE (4333±20 BP, MAMS-26834). The Early Bronze age North of the Balkan mountains was influenced directly from Yamnaya and the steppes, while South is in the area of the Aegean culture.
    No doubt Reich's lab has more unpublished samples from that study, the new ones from the contemplated Big Study from Bulgaria has not been even sent yet. Many people think that there is some hurdle from the Bulgarian side and this study may not go ahead. Meanwhile old bones are sent to European labs.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to eastara For This Useful Post:

     Polska (10-30-2020)

  12. #7
    Registered Users
    Posts
    17
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    J2b2a J-PH1602
    mtDNA (M)
    T2a1b

    United States of America Poland Germany Wales England
    Interesting. Thanks for info, Eastara.

  13. #8
    Registered Users
    Posts
    724
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-Z93>R-YP4768
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c

    Would it be right to suggest that J-L283 was expanded in Western Balkans during Early Bronze Age? Was it a common haplogroup among ancient Illyrians and Pannonians?
    Distance: 2.2672% / 0.02267223
    Target: Christos_scaled
    78.1 update_Peloponnese(Lakonia+Arkadia+older academic samples)
    21.9 Greek_Thessaly

  14. #9
    Registered Users
    Posts
    452
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Albanian
    Y-DNA (P)
    J-L283

    Albania United States of America Kosovo European Union
    A person from West Hungary is tested J-L283+ and S23613- through YSEQ. This is a J-Z622 SNP so he is ~J-L283*, and at 15/37 very distant with the Armenian on YFull. He has a WGS on order, so we should see him on YFull at some point.

    Btw, ORC007 is not J-L283* as he has one positive read for Z622. To me ORC007 cannot be placed confidently below Z622 due to low coverage, although I think odds are he is J-Z600>YP157 like the other ancient Sardinians which are from the same site and timeframe.

  15. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Trojet For This Useful Post:

     Artmar (12-02-2020),  Illyro-Vlach (12-04-2020),  Johane Derite (12-01-2020),  Polska (12-04-2020),  Pribislav (12-01-2020)

  16. #10
    Registered Users
    Posts
    41
    Y-DNA (P)
    J-Y21878

    Hi! Is there any new information on the spread of J-Y21878 in the Balkans and Albania?

Similar Threads

  1. Why does J2B2-L283 peak in Piedmont Italy?
    By Johane Derite in forum J2b-M12
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-11-2020, 04:52 PM
  2. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-19-2017, 05:18 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •