Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 22

Thread: Archaeological Indo-European and Iranian Y-DNA J1 - Database

  1. #1
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,208
    Sex
    Location
    Brazil
    Ethnicity
    Rio de Janeiro Colonial
    Nationality
    Brazilian
    Y-DNA (P)
    J1a1 FGC6064+ M365+
    mtDNA (M)
    H1ao1

    Suebi Kingdom Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ Brazilian Empire Brazil

    Archaeological Indo-European and Iranian Y-DNA J1 - Database

    When Yamnaya Steppe Culture DNA was discovered a big question remained unanswered, the origin of a part of the admixture: Depending on the interpretation - CHG_NearEastern_Iran
    Now we have found another Male vector in some of the oldest groups : Y-DNA J1

    I6221 - Mongolia_Chalcolithic_1_Afanasievo - Bayankhongor aimag, Erdenetsogt sum, Shatar chuluu kurgan 2 mtDNA [email protected] / The Genomic Formation of Human Populations in East Asia Wang et al. bioRxiv 2020.
    SHT002 - SHT002.A0101 SHT002.A0101 M U5a1 J1a (J-CTS5368) A dynamic 6,000-year genetic history of Eurasia’s Eastern Steppe - Choongwon Jeong et al. bioRxiv 2020.
    Two preprints with the same investigation.

    Yamnaya-Like Khvalynsk Y-DNA J1 - Dispersals and Diversification Linguistic and Archaeological Perspectives on the Early Stages of Indo-European - Ancient DNA, Mating Networks, and the Anatolian Split. By: David W. Anthony - We don't know the branch !

    The formation of human populations in South and Central Asia via Pribislav :
    I1784; 2201-2031 BC; Gonur; Turkmenistan; BMAC; J1-L620>PF4816>ZS6599>ZS4428>ZS6592
    I12481; 3500-2800 BC; Geoksyur; Turkmenistan; Geoksyur_EN; J1-L620>PF4816>ZS6599>ZS4428>ZS6592
    I8504; 3092-2925 BC; Geoksyur; Turkmenistan; Geoksyur_EN; J1-L620>PF4816>ZS6599>ZS4428>ZS6592

    Gonur Tomb 2380 sample 17 (I1784): Dateof 2201-2031 calBCE (3720±30 BP, Poz-83485). Genetically male. Nicknamed the ‘Tomb of the Warrior,’ this was skeletally a male, 40 to 50 years old at the time of his death, flexed supine and oriented north-northwest. The neck of the man was broken, and this was the probable cause of his death. He was buried in a shaft grave on the southeast edge of the large cemetery. This very rich grave was accompanied by one bronze knife, one silver plate, one bronze vessel (diameter 16 cm and height12 cm), one bronze mace head in the form of a horse head, one bronze mace head with four spikes, one bronze semi-cylindrical artifact near the head, one bronze leaf-shaped arrowhead near the pelvis, and one bronze plate with perforations wrapped in linen cloth near the right shin.
    Quintessential IE.

    Of course PIE was not invented at once or invented immediately, just like several other family of languages PIE had a long history during the Mesolithic. I defend the position that Y-DNA J bushy Mesolithic branches were related in the past to several previous separations of PIE.

    I have always researched, written and demonstrated the association of some specific J1 branches with the modern and ancient Iranian populations.
    The Eastern side of the Westernmost Europeans: Insights from subclades within Y‐chromosome haplogroup J‐M304
    J1 FGC5987 to FGC6175 (188 new SNPs)
    MDKAs before Colonial Brazil
    Y-DNA - Milhazes, Barcelos, Minho, Portugal.
    mtDNA - Ilha Terceira, Azores, Portugal
    North_Swedish + PT + PT + PT @ 3.96 EUtest 4

  2. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to RCO For This Useful Post:

     J1 DYS388=13 (04-21-2020),  Jatt1 (04-21-2020),  Lugus (04-21-2020),  parasar (04-22-2020),  Patarames (04-21-2020),  pegasus (04-22-2020),  subzero85 (10-25-2020),  Táltos (04-24-2020)

  3. #2
    Banned
    Posts
    143
    Sex
    Location
    ULAN BATTOR
    Ethnicity
    IBERIAN
    Nationality
    IBERIAN
    Y-DNA (P)
    J1-ft86622
    mtDNA (M)
    H1AJ1A

    Phoenicia Lebanon Phoenicia Portugal Algeria Armenia
    L620 is ancestor of L136, seems m365.1 and L136 are brothers ? and then we from from indo - iranian origins ? and we end up in the same place as today ?

  4. #3
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,208
    Sex
    Location
    Brazil
    Ethnicity
    Rio de Janeiro Colonial
    Nationality
    Brazilian
    Y-DNA (P)
    J1a1 FGC6064+ M365+
    mtDNA (M)
    H1ao1

    Suebi Kingdom Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ Brazilian Empire Brazil
    J1-L620 was formed around 18300 ybp and downstream of L620 we have FGC6064 formed 15600 ybp (I discovered with my test) and PF4816, so almost 3.000 years from L620 to FGC6064/PF4816. More 1000 years to reach L136 formed 14600 ybp. Upstream of L620 we have Z2217 and the next closest are Z2215 and Y6305 (modern J1b and Satsurblias's branch) all formed formed 18300 ybp with different groups, ethnicites and languages, so we have the location, bifurcations and trails of J1 branches after the LGM Renaissance and the Bølling–Allerød warming around 14,500 BP-13,000 BP. FGC6064, PF4816 and L136 were formed in Northern Middle Eastern and they also had and transported autosomal components from that region to the South when a new branch J1-P58 expanded to Southern Mesopotamia, Levant and Arabia afterwards. We can relate Iranian components with J1 moving to the South, just like other J1 and J2 who moved to the West, to West Anatolia, the Meditarranean, Greece, Southern Italy, "The spread of steppe and Iranian-related ancestry in the islands of the western Mediterranean" and to Africa, "West Asian sources of the Eurasian component in Ethiopians: a reassessment". M365 was an ancient SNP discovered in the first days of J1 exploration but as in other SNPs it is recurrent in other haplogroups, so we can use other SNPs as well. We don't have a good article about Iranian J1 SNPs (ou any other major Iranian haplogroup) and the best source still is (extinct) SMGF samples only with STRs.
    J1 FGC5987 to FGC6175 (188 new SNPs)
    MDKAs before Colonial Brazil
    Y-DNA - Milhazes, Barcelos, Minho, Portugal.
    mtDNA - Ilha Terceira, Azores, Portugal
    North_Swedish + PT + PT + PT @ 3.96 EUtest 4

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to RCO For This Useful Post:

     Jatt1 (04-21-2020)

  6. #4
    Registered Users
    Posts
    914
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by RCO View Post
    When Yamnaya Steppe Culture DNA was discovered a big question remained unanswered, the origin of a part of the admixture: Depending on the interpretation - CHG_NearEastern_Iran
    Now we have found another Male vector in some of the oldest groups : Y-DNA J1

    I6221 - Mongolia_Chalcolithic_1_Afanasievo - Bayankhongor aimag, Erdenetsogt sum, Shatar chuluu kurgan 2 mtDNA [email protected] / The Genomic Formation of Human Populations in East Asia Wang et al. bioRxiv 2020.
    SHT002 - SHT002.A0101 SHT002.A0101 M U5a1 J1a (J-CTS5368) A dynamic 6,000-year genetic history of Eurasia’s Eastern Steppe - Choongwon Jeong et al. bioRxiv 2020.
    Two preprints with the same investigation.

    Yamnaya-Like Khvalynsk Y-DNA J1 - Dispersals and Diversification Linguistic and Archaeological Perspectives on the Early Stages of Indo-European - Ancient DNA, Mating Networks, and the Anatolian Split. By: David W. Anthony - We don't know the branch !

    The formation of human populations in South and Central Asia via Pribislav :
    I1784; 2201-2031 BC; Gonur; Turkmenistan; BMAC; J1-L620>PF4816>ZS6599>ZS4428>ZS6592
    I12481; 3500-2800 BC; Geoksyur; Turkmenistan; Geoksyur_EN; J1-L620>PF4816>ZS6599>ZS4428>ZS6592
    I8504; 3092-2925 BC; Geoksyur; Turkmenistan; Geoksyur_EN; J1-L620>PF4816>ZS6599>ZS4428>ZS6592

    Quintessential IE.

    Of course PIE was not invented at once or invented immediately, just like several other family of languages PIE had a long history during the Mesolithic. I defend the position that Y-DNA J bushy Mesolithic branches were related in the past to several previous separations of PIE.

    I have always researched, written and demonstrated the association of some specific J1 branches with the modern and ancient Iranian populations.
    Have I ever asked you for your opinion on https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-ZS3698/? If not, please do respond, will appreciate your input.
    Last edited by Jatt1; 04-21-2020 at 11:51 PM.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to Jatt1 For This Useful Post:

     RCO (04-22-2020)

  8. #5
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,208
    Sex
    Location
    Brazil
    Ethnicity
    Rio de Janeiro Colonial
    Nationality
    Brazilian
    Y-DNA (P)
    J1a1 FGC6064+ M365+
    mtDNA (M)
    H1ao1

    Suebi Kingdom Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ Brazilian Empire Brazil
    Hello, yes, I have seen your interesting branch before and you have a possible Northern Middle Eastern connection because it's a rare branch J-ZS3698 formed 5600 ybp, TMRCA 5600 ybp, not found in the Southern Semitic tribes (they are very recent, compact, crowded and easily identifiable) and with a Northern match. I hope you can find more matches as a way to find your route, geography and trail of SNPs.
    J1 FGC5987 to FGC6175 (188 new SNPs)
    MDKAs before Colonial Brazil
    Y-DNA - Milhazes, Barcelos, Minho, Portugal.
    mtDNA - Ilha Terceira, Azores, Portugal
    North_Swedish + PT + PT + PT @ 3.96 EUtest 4

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to RCO For This Useful Post:

     Jatt1 (04-22-2020)

  10. #6
    Banned
    Posts
    143
    Sex
    Location
    ULAN BATTOR
    Ethnicity
    IBERIAN
    Nationality
    IBERIAN
    Y-DNA (P)
    J1-ft86622
    mtDNA (M)
    H1AJ1A

    Phoenicia Lebanon Phoenicia Portugal Algeria Armenia
    as you have a haplogroup origin and perhaps a destination , as mine just trough different routes do you match in your autosomal DNA with UKRAINE?

  11. #7
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,208
    Sex
    Location
    Brazil
    Ethnicity
    Rio de Janeiro Colonial
    Nationality
    Brazilian
    Y-DNA (P)
    J1a1 FGC6064+ M365+
    mtDNA (M)
    H1ao1

    Suebi Kingdom Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ Brazilian Empire Brazil
    I have some Eastern European DNA via female origins but not relevant here. Autosomal DNA is not necessarily related to Y-DNA in major haplogroups.

    My Y-DNA J1 lineage in three moments and three geographies:

    https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-FGC6064/

    3000 BC Ancient Iranian peoples - Iranian frontiers
    J1 FGC6064 FGC6020 M365 Nort Orient Med.jpg

    1000 AD - Atlantic Minho-Douro - Northern Portuguese frontier
    J1 FGC6064 FGC6020 M365 Iberia Ocidental.jpg

    1500/1600/1700 AD - Brazilian frontier
    J1 FGC6064 FGC6020 M365 Brasil.jpg
    J1 FGC5987 to FGC6175 (188 new SNPs)
    MDKAs before Colonial Brazil
    Y-DNA - Milhazes, Barcelos, Minho, Portugal.
    mtDNA - Ilha Terceira, Azores, Portugal
    North_Swedish + PT + PT + PT @ 3.96 EUtest 4

  12. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to RCO For This Useful Post:

     aaronbee2010 (04-23-2020),  Jatt1 (04-23-2020),  parasar (04-23-2020),  Piquerobi (04-23-2020),  Shanck (11-01-2020)

  13. #8
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,345
    Sex

    Since so far only certain types of J1 have shown up among EHG, Afanasievo and Khavalynsk it seems like in the distant past certain clades of J1 may have existed further north than J2.

  14. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to J Man For This Useful Post:

     Jatt1 (04-23-2020),  RCO (04-23-2020),  Shanck (11-01-2020)

  15. #9
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,768
    Ethnicity
    Pred.Anglo-Saxon + Briton
    Nationality
    Canadian
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b S21184, BY50830+
    mtDNA (M)
    U4b1a2 - FGS
    Y-DNA (M)
    ?
    mtDNA (P)
    I2

    Canada England Wales Netherlands France Cornwall
    Quote Originally Posted by RCO View Post
    When Yamnaya Steppe Culture DNA was discovered a big question remained unanswered, the origin of a part of the admixture: Depending on the interpretation - CHG_NearEastern_Iran
    Now we have found another Male vector in some of the oldest groups : Y-DNA J1

    I6221 - Mongolia_Chalcolithic_1_Afanasievo - Bayankhongor aimag, Erdenetsogt sum, Shatar chuluu kurgan 2 mtDNA [email protected] / The Genomic Formation of Human Populations in East Asia Wang et al. bioRxiv 2020.
    SHT002 - SHT002.A0101 SHT002.A0101 M U5a1 J1a (J-CTS5368) A dynamic 6,000-year genetic history of Eurasia’s Eastern Steppe - Choongwon Jeong et al. bioRxiv 2020.
    Two preprints with the same investigation.

    Yamnaya-Like Khvalynsk Y-DNA J1 - Dispersals and Diversification Linguistic and Archaeological Perspectives on the Early Stages of Indo-European - Ancient DNA, Mating Networks, and the Anatolian Split. By: David W. Anthony - We don't know the branch !

    The formation of human populations in South and Central Asia via Pribislav :
    I1784; 2201-2031 BC; Gonur; Turkmenistan; BMAC; J1-L620>PF4816>ZS6599>ZS4428>ZS6592
    I12481; 3500-2800 BC; Geoksyur; Turkmenistan; Geoksyur_EN; J1-L620>PF4816>ZS6599>ZS4428>ZS6592
    I8504; 3092-2925 BC; Geoksyur; Turkmenistan; Geoksyur_EN; J1-L620>PF4816>ZS6599>ZS4428>ZS6592

    Quintessential IE.

    Of course PIE was not invented at once or invented immediately, just like several other family of languages PIE had a long history during the Mesolithic. I defend the position that Y-DNA J bushy Mesolithic branches were related in the past to several previous separations of PIE.

    I have always researched, written and demonstrated the association of some specific J1 branches with the modern and ancient Iranian populations.
    The early graves of R1b1* in Xiongnu are partly modeled as the Gonur_BMAC as well. So I suspect there was a contact zone between R1b1*-J1 very early before the spread of the major R1a-Z93 branches eastward. Don't the R1b-Z2103 Chemurchek model as Gonur Bmac too?
    YDNA: R1b-BY50830 Stepney, London, UK George Wood b. 1782 English <-> Bavarian cluster
    m gf YDNA: ?? Gurr, James ~1740, Smarden, Kent, England.
    m gm YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    m ggf YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-Z17901. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton Ireland(?) 1800s

    other:
    Turner: R-U152
    Welch: early 1800s E-M84 Kent, England.

  16. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ADW_1981 For This Useful Post:

     Jatt1 (04-23-2020),  RCO (04-23-2020)

  17. #10
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,208
    Sex
    Location
    Brazil
    Ethnicity
    Rio de Janeiro Colonial
    Nationality
    Brazilian
    Y-DNA (P)
    J1a1 FGC6064+ M365+
    mtDNA (M)
    H1ao1

    Suebi Kingdom Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ Brazilian Empire Brazil
    Yes, we are only beggining to understand how Yamnaya was formed and we already know they had important differences and several layers. The more we investigate the genesis of Yamnaya the more we know and I hope new samples are going to be obtained to understand The Arrival of CHG-NearEastern-Iran to the steppe.

    Mongolia_EBA_2_Chemurchek and Xinjiang_China_EIA_Shirenzigou were related to the new Afanasievo_Mongolian Samples with J1 (pg30)

    101 The second
    102 spread of Yamnaya-derived ancestry came via groups that harbored about a
    103 third of their ancestry from European farmers, which nearly completely
    104 displaced unmixed Yamnaya-related lineages in Mongolia in the second
    105 millennium BCE, but did not replace Afanasievo lineages in western China
    106 where Afanasievo ancestry persisted, plausibly acting as the source of the early
    107 splitting Tocharian branch of Indo-European languages.
    The Genomic Formation of Human Populations in East Asia - 2020
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...606v1.full.pdf

    208 We find that these Chemurchek individuals (Chemurchek_Altai) are
    209 genetically similar to Dali_EBA (Fig. 3a), a contemporaneous individual from eastern
    210 Kazakhstan (Narasimhan et al., 2019). The genetic profiles of both the Yagshiin Huduu and
    211 Dali_EBA individuals are well fitted by two-way admixture models with Botai (60-78%) and
    212 groups with ancient Iranian-related ancestry, such as Gonur1_BA from Gonur Tepe, a key EBA
    213 site of the Bactria-Margiana Archaeological Complex (BMAC) (22-40%; Table S15; Fig. 3a),
    214 and ancient individuals from post-BMAC Bronze Age sites in southeastern Uzbekistan (Table
    215 S15).
    286 Three MLBA individuals in our dataset present genetic profiles that cannot be fully explained
    287 by the Altai_MLBA cline. The Altai Mönkhkhairkhan individual UAA001 matches with 3-
    288 way admixture models using Khövsgöl_LBA/Baikal_EBA as the eastern Eurasian source,
    289 Afanasievo as the WSH source (but not Sintashta), and adding Gonur1_BA as a third source
    290 (Table S16). Thus, a minor Iranian-related ancestry component is necessary to model this
    291 individual’s genetic profile, as reflected by his displacement along PC2 in Fig. 2. We also find
    292 that the culturally unclassified Altai individual KHI001 may need additional ancestry from
    293 Gonur1_BA to improve the existing 2-way admixture model. Last, UUS001, despite coming
    294 from a DSKC context in Khövsgöl province, fits better with a 3-way model of using
    295 eastMongolia_preBA and Gonur1_BA with Sintashta as the WSH source.
    A dynamic 6,000-year genetic history of Eurasia’s Eastern Steppe
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...078v1.full.pdf


    Last but not least:

    1 Early Bronze Age (~2900 BCE) Yamnaya sample from Karagash, Kazakhstan(16) (YamnayaKaragash_EBA; 25.2X)

    while the YamnayaKaragash_EBA sample has additional CHG ancestry and locates to the left with other Yamnaya and Afanasievo samples(...) Consistent with previous results (1, 2), we observe a contribution from YamnayaKaragash_EBA to present-day Europeans. Conversely, Botai_CA shows greater affinity to Central Asian, Siberian, and Native American populations, coupled with some sharing with northeastern European groups at a lower level than that for Yamnaya, due to their ANE ancestry.,
    The First Horse Herders and the Impact of Early Bronze Age Steppe Expansions into Asia - 2018
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6748862/
    J1 FGC5987 to FGC6175 (188 new SNPs)
    MDKAs before Colonial Brazil
    Y-DNA - Milhazes, Barcelos, Minho, Portugal.
    mtDNA - Ilha Terceira, Azores, Portugal
    North_Swedish + PT + PT + PT @ 3.96 EUtest 4

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. [Split] Indo-Iranians: Chariots, Language and Archaeological Assignments
    By Gravetto-Danubian in forum Archaeology (Prehistory)
    Replies: 63
    Last Post: 11-17-2019, 06:00 PM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-09-2017, 11:16 AM
  3. INdo Iranian and Tocherian? DNA
    By Fire Haired in forum Other
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 01-11-2017, 01:58 PM
  4. Indo-Iranian Archaeology
    By DMXX in forum Archaeology (Prehistory)
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 04-23-2015, 12:58 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •