Page 20 of 72 FirstFirst ... 1018192021223070 ... LastLast
Results 191 to 200 of 720

Thread: Ancient genomes from present-day France unveil 7,000 years of its demographic history

  1. #191
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,423
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    C-F5481
    mtDNA (M)
    M8a

    Kyrgyzstan
    Quote Originally Posted by jstephan View Post
    Did you try that link that Vettor sent : https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/su...34117.sapp.pdf
    That is supplementary, not the main text. Regarding main text - there are well known, but somewhat Jack Sparrow-y ways to get it.

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to rozenfeld For This Useful Post:

     Hando (06-07-2020),  jstephan (05-27-2020)

  3. #192
    Registered Users
    Posts
    7,377
    Sex
    Omitted
    Y-DNA (P)
    L21
    mtDNA (M)
    H

    The following quote from the French paper fits very well with what the Irish paper concluded (though perhaps generalising and ignoring v modest changes)

    'Bronze and Iron Age France share a common space in the PCA plot, both shifted toward modern central Europe and falling within the genetic diversity of Bronze Age Britain and central Europe, with a homogenization of the steppe component. In contrast to what was described forcentral Europe, there is no further shift toward eastern Eurasian genotypes during the Iron Age. Instead, the steppe omponent, heterogeneously distributed between individuals during the Bronze Age (ranging from 30 to 70%), becomes homogeneous, and individuals from the Hallstatt and La Tène culture in the French territory display similar affinities toward both modern and ancient populations. This could indicate that the transition from the Bronze Age to the Iron Age in France was mostly driven by cultural diffusion, without major gene flow from an external population.This would be consistent with an archeological and linguistic hypothesis proposing that
    the Celts from the second Iron Age descended from populations already established in western Europe, within the boundaries of the Bell Beaker cultural complex'
    Last edited by alan; 05-27-2020 at 10:53 AM.

  4. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to alan For This Useful Post:

     Hando (06-07-2020),  jdean (05-27-2020),  peternorth (05-27-2020),  sheepslayer (05-27-2020)

  5. #193
    Registered Users
    Posts
    4,411
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by alan View Post
    The following quote from the French paper fits very well with what the Irish paper concluded (though perhaps generalising and ignoring v modest changes)

    'Bronze and Iron Age France share a common space in the PCA plot, both shifted toward modern central Europe and falling within the genetic diversity of Bronze Age Britain and central Europe, with a homogenization of the steppe component. In contrast to what was described forcentral Europe, there is no further shift toward eastern Eurasian genotypes during the Iron Age. Instead, the steppe omponent, heterogeneously distributed between individuals during the Bronze Age (ranging from 30 to 70%), becomes homogeneous, and individuals from the Hallstatt and La Tène culture in the French territory display similar affinities toward both modern and ancient populations. This could indicate that the transition from the Bronze Age to the Iron Age in France was mostly driven by cultural diffusion, without major gene flow from an external population.This would be consistent with an archeological and linguistic hypothesis proposing that
    the Celts from the second Iron Age descended from populations already established in western Europe, within the boundaries of the Bell Beaker cultural complex'
    There's definitely a homogenizing process visible in the data, and this process might be linked to Celtic expansions.

  6. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Generalissimo For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (05-28-2020),  Alain (05-27-2020),  Hando (06-07-2020),  JMcB (05-30-2020),  peternorth (05-27-2020),  sktibo (05-27-2020)

  7. #194
    Registered Users
    Posts
    7,377
    Sex
    Omitted
    Y-DNA (P)
    L21
    mtDNA (M)
    H

    Quote Originally Posted by alan View Post
    The following quote from the French paper fits very well with what the Irish paper concluded (though perhaps generalising and ignoring v modest changes)

    'Bronze and Iron Age France share a common space in the PCA plot, both shifted toward modern central Europe and falling within the genetic diversity of Bronze Age Britain and central Europe, with a homogenization of the steppe component. In contrast to what was described forcentral Europe, there is no further shift toward eastern Eurasian genotypes during the Iron Age. Instead, the steppe omponent, heterogeneously distributed between individuals during the Bronze Age (ranging from 30 to 70%), becomes homogeneous, and individuals from the Hallstatt and La Tène culture in the French territory display similar affinities toward both modern and ancient populations. This could indicate that the transition from the Bronze Age to the Iron Age in France was mostly driven by cultural diffusion, without major gene flow from an external population.This would be consistent with an archeological and linguistic hypothesis proposing that
    the Celts from the second Iron Age descended from populations already established in western Europe, within the boundaries of the Bell Beaker cultural complex'
    Seems whatever extra east to west stuff was going on in central Europe in the iron age was not hitting France. That indicates to me that any contact with groups further east were restricted to the groups adjoining them and not a characteristic of the Celtic world in general. Its also a reminder that a lot of what was Celtic Gaul did not overlap with Urnfield while the core big Hallstatt C and D rich graves were only on the extreme eastern perhiphery of what was later Gaul. Even the core La Tene area was on its eastermost periphery. So, I think people need to rethink how Celticity came about and perhaps see those material cultures not as language spreading migtrations but more as networks which temporarily gave certain subsets of the Celtic world influence and prestige over the rest, leading to emulation. Some geneflow could also of course travel along friendly networks but continuity of YDNA is a strong indicator that it was networking between elites, not replacement and displacement.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to alan For This Useful Post:

     Hando (06-07-2020)

  9. #195
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    1,259
    Sex
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ethnicity
    100% European
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    DF27>Z195>FGC23196
    mtDNA (M)
    U5a1a2a

    United States of America United Kingdom Germany Ireland Scotland Wales
    Quote Originally Posted by sktibo View Post
    Any DF27 in BA or IA?? How about U152?
    OBE3626-1 appears to be DF27. Sorry, I see Jdean already replied.
    Last edited by Webb; 05-27-2020 at 11:27 AM.

  10. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Webb For This Useful Post:

     Hando (06-07-2020),  sktibo (05-27-2020)

  11. #196
    Registered Users
    Posts
    7,377
    Sex
    Omitted
    Y-DNA (P)
    L21
    mtDNA (M)
    H

    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    There's definitely a homogenizing process visible in the data, and this process might be linked to Celtic expansions.
    I dont disagree there were Iron Age migrations and expansions, both localised and wider. I am pretty sure that for example Ireland did get Iron Age geneflow from western Britain and southern and eastern Britain likely got geneflow from Gaul. I think that is the predominantly likely the genetic expression of friendly networking indicated by elite metalwork commonality we see against a background of otherwise rather local material culture traits. But there may be localised hostile takeovers too.
    Networking gives you an awareness of other tribes and possibly their strengths and weaknesses so it probably did happen. However, I dont think anyone without a time machine can say they are THE Celtic expansions. That sharing of elite portable material across the isles and western/central Europe isnt something that started with La Tene of even Hallstatt. Its also a feature throughout the entire bronze age from 2200-700BC but unfortunately most possibility of ancient DNA reflecting that is lost in some areas due to cremation being utterly dominant. In Ireland its almost totally cremation 1700BC-200AD so all evidence of process in the shifts are lost. In Britain its almost as bad except non-cremation does reappear in the early Iron Age c. 700BC or around there. Though Iron Age pre-400AD burials are still very rare actross most of Britain.
    Last edited by alan; 05-27-2020 at 11:57 AM.

  12. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to alan For This Useful Post:

     Hando (06-07-2020),  JMcB (05-27-2020),  peternorth (05-27-2020)

  13. #197
    Registered Users
    Posts
    3,755
    Sex
    Location
    USA
    Ethnicity
    Italo-Iberian
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-U152+L2+FGC10543
    mtDNA (M)
    H4a1-T152C!

    United States of America Italy 1861-1946 Spain
    The authors have notified PNAS that the dataset spreadsheet is missing from the website. I have temporarily stored it here:

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1P3i...ew?usp=sharing
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

  14. The Following 20 Users Say Thank You to R.Rocca For This Useful Post:

     ADW_1981 (05-27-2020),  Agamemnon (05-28-2020),  Andour (05-27-2020),  anglesqueville (05-27-2020),  deadly77 (05-27-2020),  falconson1 (05-27-2020),  Hando (06-07-2020),  Helgenes50 (05-27-2020),  jdean (05-27-2020),  JMcB (05-27-2020),  JonikW (05-27-2020),  jstephan (05-27-2020),  Kristiina (05-27-2020),  MacUalraig (05-27-2020),  Menchaca (05-27-2020),  Paul333 (05-27-2020),  Power77 (05-28-2020),  Pribislav (05-27-2020),  rozenfeld (05-27-2020),  Tolan (05-27-2020)

  15. #198
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    1,259
    Sex
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ethnicity
    100% European
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    DF27>Z195>FGC23196
    mtDNA (M)
    U5a1a2a

    United States of America United Kingdom Germany Ireland Scotland Wales
    Quote Originally Posted by R.Rocca View Post
    With all the debate about the timing for the spread of Celtic in the thread about Ireland, this is what this paper says about Celts:
    This falls in line with the Webb Regurgitation Theory I developed several years ago. Almost as famous as my Norwiberian theory. lol.

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to Webb For This Useful Post:

     Hando (06-07-2020)

  17. #199
    Registered Users
    Posts
    579
    Sex
    Location
    Belgrade
    Ethnicity
    Slavic
    Nationality
    Serb
    Y-DNA (P)
    PH908>A5913>A22312

    Serbia Montenegro Bosnia and Herzegovina Croatia Split-Dalmatia
    I don't remember ever seeing a paper on PNAS that wasn't open access, or required payment or log in. Just click on the PDF button in the bottom right corner and there you have it:

    000jhjg.PNG

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to Pribislav For This Useful Post:

     Hando (06-07-2020)

  19. #200
    Registered Users
    Posts
    3,755
    Sex
    Location
    USA
    Ethnicity
    Italo-Iberian
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-U152+L2+FGC10543
    mtDNA (M)
    H4a1-T152C!

    United States of America Italy 1861-1946 Spain
    Quote Originally Posted by Pribislav View Post
    I don't remember ever seeing a paper on PNAS that wasn't open access, or required payment or log in. Just click on the PDF button in the bottom right corner and there you have it:

    000jhjg.PNG
    Thanks. They must've opened it up, because I can assure you that I paid for it yesterday.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

  20. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to R.Rocca For This Useful Post:

     falconson1 (05-27-2020),  Hando (06-07-2020),  jstephan (05-27-2020),  Power77 (05-28-2020)

Page 20 of 72 FirstFirst ... 1018192021223070 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 65
    Last Post: 02-25-2020, 05:48 PM
  2. Replies: 63
    Last Post: 02-04-2018, 10:46 AM
  3. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-22-2016, 04:01 PM
  4. Scientists unveil plan to create synthetic human genomes
    By rock hunter in forum Medical Genetics
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-04-2016, 01:39 AM
  5. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-11-2016, 12:57 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •