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Thread: R1b-L51 route into West/Central Europe proposed graphic

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    R1b-L51 route into West/Central Europe proposed graphic

    I've posted a series of articles for the R1b project members as background in preparation for this.
    Those articles include topics like, PIE, Yamnaya, Corded Ware, Single Grave CW, Bell Beakers, P312 distribution, U106 distribution, Z2103 distribution, etc.

    This graphic is intended as a visual to discuss L51 and its descendants. It's too busy as it is so I'm trying not to add more detail but I definitely want to correct errors. Feedback?

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/...route.pdf?dl=0

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    It seems to me we are pretty close to knowing that R1b-L51 came into Europe west of the steppe via Corded Ware. The big issue now is where Corded Ware came from. If you read about Corded Ware, you'll see the experts don't agree on that.

    Fortunately ancient dna has put paid to the idea that Corded ware was native to the North European Plain and developed from TRB. But we still don't know how exactly it came from the steppe.

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     Michał (04-25-2020)

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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    It seems to me we are pretty close to knowing that R1b-L51 came into Europe west of the steppe via Corded Ware. The big issue now is where Corded Ware came from. If you read about Corded Ware, you'll see the experts don't agree on that.

    Fortunately ancient dna has put paid to the idea that Corded ware was native to the North European Plain and developed from TRB. But we still don't know how exactly it came from the steppe.
    Agreed. My old mantra on the Bell Beakers was Bell Beakers are not Bell Beakers are not Bell Beakers.

    We are seeing the same thing for the Corded Ware. Corded Ware is not Corded Ware is not Corded Ware. It's a broad archaeological horizon, not a tribe. It's not even a specific culture.

    Likewise, the Yamnaya were not all alike and the fringes and adjacent areas may have had steppes herders too. There were probably few if any clear boundaries. The Proto-Indo-European base probably did not respect clear boundaries either.

    I guess the other old adage still applies too. The pottery is not the people.

    In the article I will post I will try to post some scholarly article links but will leave open the route route from L23 to P312 and U106 as an open question. It looks doubtful at this point that it accompanied Z2103 along the Danube? Not impossible but doubtful?
    Last edited by Mikewww; 04-25-2020 at 12:40 PM.

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