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Thread: R1a>M458>L1029

  1. #101
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    I was watching a video about Lower Silesia on You Tube and it got me thinking about the YFull's TMRCA for Y2912 (where Waldemar and I depart out patrilineage) and its subclades. Y2912 appears to be in south-central Poland while Y2921 and Y2914 have ancestry in Silesia and eventually across the border in what is now Germany. While there seems to be a revision of the TMRCA of L1029, from around the start of the Common Era to about 200-250 BCE, and sample I13780 seems to push back YP263, I think the TMRCA for Y2912 and its subclades are likely accurate because Y2912 and Y2914 seem to Sorbian and, unless the Sorbs were in this area before the consensus, the TMRCA of 1400 YBP seems accurate for Y2921.

  2. #102
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    I posted this on discord, but, obviously, it wasn't seen by everybody: I have tested with FTDNA - their Big Y - and I sent my data to to YFull. Yesterday, FTDNA presented a new tool. There, they estimated the TMRCA for 2 of my clades (which sit just below R-YP263). What's notable is the difference between their estimates and YFull's. While it has been postulated that YFull may underestimate its TMRCA - especially for older clades like L1029, FTDNA's underestimates them even more, 800 years for Y2914 (compared 1250 years for YFull) and 1200 years for Y2921 (compared to 1400 years at YFull). Any thoughts on this?

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  4. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by leonardo View Post
    I posted this on discord, but, obviously, it wasn't seen by everybody: I have tested with FTDNA - their Big Y - and I sent my data to to YFull. Yesterday, FTDNA presented a new tool. There, they estimated the TMRCA for 2 of my clades (which sit just below R-YP263). What's notable is the difference between their estimates and YFull's. While it has been postulated that YFull may underestimate its TMRCA - especially for older clades like L1029, FTDNA's underestimates them even more, 800 years for Y2914 (compared 1250 years for YFull) and 1200 years for Y2921 (compared to 1400 years at YFull). Any thoughts on this?
    FTDNA revised their TMRCA on their "Discover More" page for both Y2914 and Y2921, as well as YP263. Regarding the latter, it is now estimated at 2200YPB. YFull has YP263 as formed 2100 YBP and its TMRCA 1750 YBP, although it has sample I13780 with a TMRCA of 2250 YBP.

  5. #104
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    A new match at YFull with his last known ancestry in Lublin, Poland shares a common ancestor with a man from Albania. I wonder if this says anything about the migration of Slavs to the Balkans?
    alb.png

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  7. #105
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    there is also a new match at YP729 (YP619) from austria
    seems to be new (Nebula Genomics) and not sofar known from a prev dataset

     
    GENO2.0 51SEURO 19WCEURO 13SCANDINAVIA 5ASIAMINOR 4EEURO 4GB/IRELAND 3ARABIA MYORIGINS 52WCEUROPE 40SEEUROPE 5BRITISHISLES 3WMIDEAST DNA.LAND 49NWEURO 27SEURO 13MED.ISLANDER 11SARDINIAN MYHERITAGE 51.8NWEURO 33.2ITALIAN 7.9GREEK/S.ITALY 7.1BALKAN GENEPLAZA 54.4NWEURO 37.6GRE/ALB 5.6WASIAN 2.4SWASIA LIVINGDNA 57.4S.GER 3.3NE.GER 25.8N.ITA 5S.ITA 4.3TUSCANY 2.5CYPRUS 1.7AEGEAN FTDNA 49.7 WESTERN EUROPE britain/ireland,cen.europe,scandinavia 50.3 SOUTHERN EUROPE ita-peninsula,greece&balkan,sardinia

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  9. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexfritz View Post
    there is also a new match at YP729 (YP619) from austria
    seems to be new (Nebula Genomics) and not sofar known from a prev dataset

     
    I wonder how that lone sample at YP445 from England ended up there?

  10. #107
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    Speaking of L1029, you can see from FTDNA how L1029 (and YP263) had a rapid expansion.
    L1029.png

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  12. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by leonardo View Post
    I wonder how that lone sample at YP445 from England ended up there?
    it could be the same (both FTDNA) as the blue pin on this older map (not on it myself) that however only listed YP444 back then; but now FTDNA lists one english YP445 in its haplotree aswell; an ancestor is mentioned with a date ?seems english (the name) or atleast not directly foreign (my guess)
    GENO2.0 51SEURO 19WCEURO 13SCANDINAVIA 5ASIAMINOR 4EEURO 4GB/IRELAND 3ARABIA MYORIGINS 52WCEUROPE 40SEEUROPE 5BRITISHISLES 3WMIDEAST DNA.LAND 49NWEURO 27SEURO 13MED.ISLANDER 11SARDINIAN MYHERITAGE 51.8NWEURO 33.2ITALIAN 7.9GREEK/S.ITALY 7.1BALKAN GENEPLAZA 54.4NWEURO 37.6GRE/ALB 5.6WASIAN 2.4SWASIA LIVINGDNA 57.4S.GER 3.3NE.GER 25.8N.ITA 5S.ITA 4.3TUSCANY 2.5CYPRUS 1.7AEGEAN FTDNA 49.7 WESTERN EUROPE britain/ireland,cen.europe,scandinavia 50.3 SOUTHERN EUROPE ita-peninsula,greece&balkan,sardinia

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  14. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexfritz View Post
    it could be the same (both FTDNA) as the blue pin on this older map (not on it myself) that however only listed YP444 back then; but now FTDNA lists one english YP445 in its haplotree aswell; an ancestor is mentioned with a date ?seems english (the name) or atleast not directly foreign (my guess)
    I see, from York. Makes me think of the Danelaw and how Slavic mercenaries accompanied the Danes on their incursions into that side of England.

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  16. #110
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    aDNA sample GOR001 from medieval russia (859±49 calCE)
    R1a1a1b1a1b1 (ISOGG 2016) L1029

     
    Gorokhovets, Puzhalova gora
    Puzhalova gora is a burial ground with 105 barrows on the southern outskirts of the Gorokhovets town on a high terrace of the Klyazma River. Excavations in 1956, 1976, 2015 and 2020 revealed 30 burials under the barrows and flat inhumations not marked with the burial mounds. The burial pits contained skeletal remains lying supine and their heads to the west, most of them unfurnished. Grave goods discovered in several graves in 2020 included items used in the second half of the 12th to the first half of the 13th century. The burial ritual represents the common Rus’ tradition of the 12th century. The barrow cemetery at Puzhalova gora is known as one of the easternmost sites with burial mounds and marks the eastern edge of the territory where the barrow ritual of medieval Rus’ spread in the 11th–12th centuries.

    Grave 1 (GOR001)

    Discovered in 2015 under a mound (no. 80, 50 сm high, 5 m in diameter). A rectangular burial pit 50 cm deep contained skeletal remains of an approximately 50-year-old male individual. The deceased was lying supine with his head to the west and arms bent, hands on the chest. The burial ritual is similar to other graves of Puzhalova gora, including those furnished with ornaments from the second half of the 12th– the first half of the 13th centuries.


    maybe the site has been misdated barrow ritual of medieval Rus’ spread in the 11th–12th centuries since GOR001 (from a burial mound) dates a good 200 years earlier; ?rus context? as VK541 (L1029/YP593)
    GENO2.0 51SEURO 19WCEURO 13SCANDINAVIA 5ASIAMINOR 4EEURO 4GB/IRELAND 3ARABIA MYORIGINS 52WCEUROPE 40SEEUROPE 5BRITISHISLES 3WMIDEAST DNA.LAND 49NWEURO 27SEURO 13MED.ISLANDER 11SARDINIAN MYHERITAGE 51.8NWEURO 33.2ITALIAN 7.9GREEK/S.ITALY 7.1BALKAN GENEPLAZA 54.4NWEURO 37.6GRE/ALB 5.6WASIAN 2.4SWASIA LIVINGDNA 57.4S.GER 3.3NE.GER 25.8N.ITA 5S.ITA 4.3TUSCANY 2.5CYPRUS 1.7AEGEAN FTDNA 49.7 WESTERN EUROPE britain/ireland,cen.europe,scandinavia 50.3 SOUTHERN EUROPE ita-peninsula,greece&balkan,sardinia

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