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Thread: Uralic homeland and genetics and their implications for PIE

  1. #1041
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huck Finn View Post
    At what stage of Bang does Lithuania then belong, not speaking Uralic?
    Lithuania is tricky thing here for many reasons and more samples are needed to arrive at exact understanding.

    At this point it seems likely some L1025 Uralic population was integrated in Baltic community during expansion of either West Balts to the East early centuries AD or East Balts to the North something 500-ish AD. Given Finnic loanwords in Lithuanian is mediated via Latvians, it seems likely that Latvian got formed somewhere North Lithuania where East Balts assimilated either West Balts or Baltic Finns or Pre Finns or combination of them. And then later they got pushed into Latvia and remains assimilated into Lithuanian.

    But some pieces still do not fit. More sampling is needed genetically, and review of Uralic loanwords into Lithuanian to understand from what stage of Latvian word got into Lithuanian.
    Also there are Yatwingians in Narew (South Lithuania) who for examples used to eat things like sēne (mushroom, FU loanword).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    He hasn't yet explained why he's pinned Garino-Bor as the Proto-Uralic candidate culture, nor has he revealed the anchors that tie Proto-Uralic to Europe.

    And I don't have to provide any linguistic new data, because there's nothing new in the claim that Proto-Uralic had its roots in Siberia.

    Which linguistic results does my theory contradict?
    As a possible candidate, yes, but that's secondary. Some other culture should do as well, as long as time and place is correct. Then, if you present a linguistic model, you have to support that with linguistic evidence. Otherwise you just have a plain hypothesis or you're just making an interpretation, based on genetics or whatever, which is of course fine as such. But, you have not proven anything. Anyone can for instance shoot your linguistic model down because of a possible language switch.

    If you have spare time, try to prove that Proto Indo Iranic was spoken in BA Krasnoyarsk Krai. That should be easier than to prove that it was not spoken there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by parastais View Post
    Also there are Yatwingians in Narew (South Lithuania) who for examples used to eat things like sēne (mushroom, FU loanword).
    Very interesting but as you have noticed yourself language switches are complicated and they do happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huck Finn View Post
    Some other culture should do as well, as long as time and place is correct. Then, if you present a linguistic model, you have to support that with linguistic evidence.
    In fact, the robust linguistic evidence that we have right now suggests that Proto-Uralic had a lot of contacts with Indo-Aryan. And there's nothing suggesting that this happened in Europe, while ancient DNA does suggest that it happened in Siberia.

    If you have spare time, try to prove that Proto Indo Iranic was spoken in BA Krasnoyarsk Krai. That should be easier than to prove that it was not spoken there.
    I never claimed that it had to be Krasnoyarsk Krai. Anywhere well east of the Urals will do where there were contacts between Proto-Uralic with Indo-Aryan on one hand, and with Yukaghir on the other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huck Finn View Post
    Very interesting but as you have noticed yourself language switches are complicated and they do happen.
    Yeap, but they can be traced and predicted by both archeology and genetics. Even if genes don't talk

    It just striked me that similar statement "pots don't speak" or something like that was infamously used before in archeology before. Until genetics proved that pots arrived together with new type of genes. Now Jaska is following up on the same outdated "pots don't speak" notion.

    edit:
    “Pots are pots, not people,” apparently was the quote.
    Now we got new version "genes are genes, not people"
    Last edited by parastais; 04-20-2021 at 09:47 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by parastais View Post
    Now Jaska is following up on the same outdated "pots don't speak" notion.
    I'd rather say that you, among some other people, are not willing to accept the complexity of human behaviour in history. Simple does not always equal nimble.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huck Finn View Post
    I'd rather say that you, among some other people, are not willing to accept the complexity of human behaviour in history. Simple does not always equal nimble.
    Those are not mutually exclousive statements )))

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMXX View Post
    Could you please elaborate, roughly, on what it entails?

    Are you obligated to work with at least one other researcher, is there a bias assessment tool for any primary sources you include etc.?
    No and no.
    I'm not sure I understand what you are after - clearly there is no equivalent in linguistics for what you are thinking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    He hasn't yet explained why he's pinned Garino-Bor as the Proto-Uralic candidate culture, nor has he revealed the anchors that tie Proto-Uralic to Europe.
    It happens to be in the right place at the right time to match the linguistic results: Kama region around 2000 BC.

    And please, do not lie: I have presented several arguments for the European homeland, both here and in your different blog entries. It is not my fault, if you have already forgotten all that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo
    And I don't have to provide any linguistic new data, because there's nothing new in the claim that Proto-Uralic had its roots in Siberia.
    There is no new linguistic evidence supporting the Siberian homeland, and even the old evidence is refuted: that Samoyed was the first branch to split off. There never was anything else precisely related to the Late Proto-Uralic stage.

    As I said, there are some east-drawing features far beyond the Late Proto-Uralic. So, Pre-Proto-Uralic thousands of years earlier probably was spoken in Siberia, but it still cannot draw Late Proto-Uralic in Siberia. Even you wouldn't claim that Pre-Proto-Aryan was developed in Siberia, so that and Archaic IE loanwords draw Proto-Uralic in Europe.

    As I said, I will make an English summary of the arguments, but I will make it well, so it takes time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    In fact, the robust linguistic evidence that we have right now suggests that Proto-Uralic had a lot of contacts with Indo-Aryan. And there's nothing suggesting that this happened in Europe, while ancient DNA does suggest that it happened in Siberia.
    How could you see language in ancient DNA?
    Please tell, the Nobel prize waits you.

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