Page 167 of 195 FirstFirst ... 67117157165166167168169177 ... LastLast
Results 1,661 to 1,670 of 1941

Thread: Uralic homeland and genetics and their implications for PIE

  1. #1661
    Finnic populations should know that, according to the scientist from China, the Zhaobaogou culture could participate in the formation of the Finno-Uralic branch, and it is backed by ancient DNA from that culture.
    The most diversified N1c population was found in the Xueshan I culture and it clustered craniologically with local Northern Chinese populations.

  2. #1662
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,299
    Sex
    Location
    Moscow
    Ethnicity
    East Europe + Finland
    Nationality
    Russian
    Y-DNA (P)
    N-Z1936-Y19110
    mtDNA (M)
    H2a5b

    Russian Federation
    "The Jiangjialiang (JJL) and Sanguan (SG) sites are located in the Sanggan River Valley (Figure 1), yet display different subsistence economies. The JJL site was one of the largest Neolithic sites in the Sanggan River Valley. It is the oldest Neolithic Sanggan River Valley site with human remains.19 A previous excavation uncovered a total of nine buildings and 78 graves (Supplementary Figure S1).19 Radiocarbon dating of the nine buildings in the lowest stratigraphic layer indicated that they were constructed in 485080 BC."

    "All JJL males expressed the Y haplogroup N-M231 (Supplementary Table S5), the most common haplogroup in North China 3000 years ago.38 Haplogroup N1 ( N1a, N1c) is present in 10 out of the 17 males while the haplogroup N1c-Tat was observed in the other seven male individuals (Table 2)."

    "For the SG samples, four of seven individuals were classified as male, and they all belonged to the Y haplogroup O3-M122 (Supplementary Tables S2 and S5), common in the ancient people of the Yellow River Valley.38, 39 Haplogroup O3-M122 is the main haplogroup observed in the Han Chinese people today,40, 41, 42 however was not identified in the JJL population."

    https://www.nature.com/articles/jhg2016107#MOESM403

    So N1a-TAT was found only in the early JJL layer, the earliest layers of which are dated to 4850 BC. So it is most likely that this group came from the Amur River from the Gromatukha culture area and is N1a-Y23747 and Y149447. In addition, the skeletons themselves are not dated, the study was carried out according to 17 STR. Now such studies are not recognized by science as reliable. It is necessary to study these samples with modern methods.
    Last edited by VladimirTaraskin; 03-23-2023 at 06:59 AM.

  3. #1663
    Published: 01 September 2016

    Genetic diversity of two Neolithic populations provides evidence of farming expansions in North China

    Ye Zhang, Jiawei Li, Yongbin Zhao, Xiyan Wu, Hongjie Li, Lu Yao, Hong Zhu & Hui Zhou
    Journal of Human Genetics volume 62, pages199204 (2017)Cite this article

    "Considering the rarity of the N1c-Tat haplogroup distribution in the ancient populations throughout the late Neolithic and Bronze Ages, it is possible that N1c-Tat represented the local population of the Sanggan River Valley. These people may be the original settlers who used a hunter-gatherer subsistence strategy in the Sanggan River Valley. During the shift from hunting to farming, they likely embraced new techniques and then began to use farming technology."

    The lower layer for Xueshan I should derive from the local Hougang I culture. The Chinese articles describe how hunter-gatherers shifted to farming technology in this region, including the period 9000-10000 years ago.

    The later layers of incoming populations to this region also included the Hongshan-related populations.

    The Xiaojingshan of the Houli culture is not so far from this area, and Xiaojingshan's ancient DNA includes autosomal DNA related to hg N1c-populations.

    EDIT: It is not correct to think that these particular N1c specimens belonged to the lowest layer ("Radiocarbon dating of the nine buildings in the lowest stratigraphic layer indicated that they were constructed in 485080 BC.19, 22"), because these N1c samples were directly attributed to the Xueshan I culture period (36002900 BC).
    Last edited by East-Asia; 03-23-2023 at 07:32 AM.

  4. #1664
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,299
    Sex
    Location
    Moscow
    Ethnicity
    East Europe + Finland
    Nationality
    Russian
    Y-DNA (P)
    N-Z1936-Y19110
    mtDNA (M)
    H2a5b

    Russian Federation
    Quote Originally Posted by East-Asia View Post
    Published: 01 September 2016

    Genetic diversity of two Neolithic populations provides evidence of farming expansions in North China

    Ye Zhang, Jiawei Li, Yongbin Zhao, Xiyan Wu, Hongjie Li, Lu Yao, Hong Zhu & Hui Zhou
    Journal of Human Genetics volume 62, pages199–204 (2017)Cite this article

    "Considering the rarity of the N1c-Tat haplogroup distribution in the ancient populations throughout the late Neolithic and Bronze Ages, it is possible that N1c-Tat represented the local population of the Sanggan River Valley. These people may be the original settlers who used a hunter-gatherer subsistence strategy in the Sanggan River Valley. During the shift from hunting to farming, they likely embraced new techniques and then began to use farming technology."

    The lower layer for Xueshan I should derive from the local Hougang I culture. The Chinese articles describe how hunter-gatherers shifted to farming technology in this region, including the period 9000-10000 years ago.

    The later layers of incoming populations to this region also included the Hongshan-related populations.

    The Xiaojingshan of the Houli culture is not so far from this area, and Xiaojingshan's ancient DNA includes autosomal DNA related to hg N1c-populations.

    EDIT: It is not correct to think that these particular N1c specimens belonged to the lowest layer ("Radiocarbon dating of the nine buildings in the lowest stratigraphic layer indicated that they were constructed in 485080 BC.19, 22"), because these N1c samples were directly attributed to the Xueshan I culture period (3600–2900 BC).
    These samples were not dated at all. Therefore, it is not clear to what period they belong. And given the fact that the study was done on the basis of 17 STRs, and not on the basis of SNPs, it is impossible to determine their exact subclade.

    I found the following conclusion - "The Hongshan culture was formed on the basis of the local Xinglongwa culture. The oldest jade products in China were found in Xinglongwa burials, in particular, amulets in the form of small dragons, clay figurines in the form of a pregnant woman, and copper rings." This is already interesting , as jade products continue to accompany the N group population.
    Last edited by VladimirTaraskin; 03-23-2023 at 08:23 AM.

  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to VladimirTaraskin For This Useful Post:

     Jack Johnson (04-18-2023),  Kunig (03-23-2023)

  6. #1665
    The local population of the Sanggan River Valley (which is considred N1c-related in the "Xueshan I" article) belonged to a different cultural system than the Xinglongwa culture (the Hougang I culture and its precursor was the Xueshan-related local population cultural system).
    Also, the Zhaobaogou culture does not derive directly from the Xinglongwa culture. The initial homeland of the Xinglongwa population was proposed to lay closer to the sumberged territory of the Bohai Sea or even on the sumberged territory basing on the archaeological similarities to the most coastal archaeological cultures. As there was continuous interaction along the sea coast, this would justify the possible "Altaic" affiliation of Xinglongwa shared also by Koreanic and Japonic.
    Last edited by East-Asia; 03-23-2023 at 09:01 AM.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to East-Asia For This Useful Post:

     tantin (03-23-2023)

  8. #1666
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,299
    Sex
    Location
    Moscow
    Ethnicity
    East Europe + Finland
    Nationality
    Russian
    Y-DNA (P)
    N-Z1936-Y19110
    mtDNA (M)
    H2a5b

    Russian Federation
    Quote Originally Posted by East-Asia View Post
    The local population of the Sanggan River Valley (which is considred N1c-related in the "Xueshan I" article) belonged to a different cultural system than the Xinglongwa culture (the Hougang I culture and its precursor was the Xueshan-related local population cultural system).
    Also, the Zhaobaogou culture does not derive directly from the Xinglongwa culture. The initial homeland of the Xinglongwa population was proposed to lay closer to the sumberged territory of the Bohai Sea or even on the sumberged territory basing on the archaeological similarities to the most coastal archaeological cultures. As there was continuous interaction along the sea coast, this would justify the possible "Altaic" affiliation of Xinglongwa shared also by Koreanic and Japonic.
    The culture of Xueshan is, firstly, too late to refer to N1a-L708, and secondly, it is already agrarian, which is also impossible. If you look for N-TAT in China, then these should be more ancient cultures older than 6000 BC and the culture of hunters and fishermen, but familiar with jade

  9. #1667
    Instead of this, the fisherman culture is Devil's Gate where there was no N1c detected, and Devil's Gate culture has a Chinese counterpart of Xinkailiu culture, both produce jade objects. Devil's Gate is northern C2-M217, so northern C2-M217 fits the description "fishermen with jade".
    Unlike this, the Xueshan I culture is related to N1c haplogroup:

    "Considering the rarity of the N1c-Tat haplogroup distribution in the ancient populations throughout the late Neolithic and Bronze Ages, it is possible that N1c-Tat represented the local population of the Sanggan River Valley. These people may be the original settlers who used a hunter-gatherer subsistence strategy in the Sanggan River Valley. During the shift from hunting to farming, they likely embraced new techniques and then began to use farming technology."

    Genetic diversity of two Neolithic populations provides evidence of farming expansions in North China

    Ye Zhang, Jiawei Li, Yongbin Zhao, Xiyan Wu, Hongjie Li, Lu Yao, Hong Zhu & Hui Zhou
    Journal of Human Genetics volume 62, pages199204 (2017)

  10. #1668
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,299
    Sex
    Location
    Moscow
    Ethnicity
    East Europe + Finland
    Nationality
    Russian
    Y-DNA (P)
    N-Z1936-Y19110
    mtDNA (M)
    H2a5b

    Russian Federation
    Quote Originally Posted by East-Asia View Post
    Instead of this, the fisherman culture is Devil's Gate where there was no N1c detected, and Devil's Gate culture has a Chinese counterpart of Xinkailiu culture, both produce jade objects. Devil's Gate is northern C2-M217, so northern C2-M217 fits the description "fishermen with jade".
    Unlike this, the Xueshan I culture is related to N1c haplogroup:

    "Considering the rarity of the N1c-Tat haplogroup distribution in the ancient populations throughout the late Neolithic and Bronze Ages, it is possible that N1c-Tat represented the local population of the Sanggan River Valley. These people may be the original settlers who used a hunter-gatherer subsistence strategy in the Sanggan River Valley. During the shift from hunting to farming, they likely embraced new techniques and then began to use farming technology."

    Genetic diversity of two Neolithic populations provides evidence of farming expansions in North China

    Ye Zhang, Jiawei Li, Yongbin Zhao, Xiyan Wu, Hongjie Li, Lu Yao, Hong Zhu & Hui Zhou
    Journal of Human Genetics volume 62, pages199–204 (2017)
    In 5500 BC N1a1-TAT/L708 was already in the Trans-Baikal Territory of Russia. So late Neolithic and Bronze Ages in China could only have N1a1-TAT/Y23747.

  11. #1669
    Haplogroups cannot be correlated with extrapolations made on the whole population from archaeologically excavated sites. Since in a given area, there needs to be reasons to be explained why samples can have a high concentration of specific haplogroups.

    There are far too few of a sample set too to make reliable statistical inferences.
    Last edited by alienation; 03-23-2023 at 11:06 AM.

  12. #1670
    The Xueshan I culture where y-DNA N1c was found has archaeological connections to Finnic populations in the field of artefacts for spiritual life.

Page 167 of 195 FirstFirst ... 67117157165166167168169177 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Ante Aikio on Proto-Uralic
    By anglesqueville in forum Linguistics
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 01-04-2023, 09:12 AM
  2. Uralic
    By JoeyP37 in forum Linguistics
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-14-2021, 03:15 AM
  3. Replies: 160
    Last Post: 11-16-2020, 06:28 PM
  4. Eurogenes Uralic genes Analysis
    By J Man in forum Autosomal (auDNA)
    Replies: 58
    Last Post: 09-26-2015, 01:20 PM
  5. Is there Tocharian influence in Uralic? Implications?
    By newtoboard in forum Linguistics
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-06-2015, 12:31 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •