Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 19

Thread: Berbers in Ukraine/Poland

  1. #1
    Registered Users
    Posts
    149
    Sex
    Nationality
    Spanish
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-M183

    Berbers in Ukraine/Poland

    I found this guy named "Kolomak" from Poland in my Berber haplogroup (E-Z5009, TMRCA about 1900ybp). Well, I did some research and I found this interview, which would explain it all. I thought it would be cool to share as genetics and and language seem to paint the exact same picture.



    - Whether on the territory of Ukraine there were settlements of the Arabs?

    - I think, yes, there were. Otherwise, how to explain numerous villages with the names of Arabika (Zaporozhye area), Arapovka (Lugansk area), Arapovichi (Chernigov area), Voropai, Gorobievka, Vorobevka, etc.? And there are so many surnames from this root! As I already told you, the name of a sparrow birdie (orobye, orobets, vorobey - Rus, Ukr.) can be connected with a name of these people. For its character, as it understood our ancestors...

    It is interesting that Ukrainian Kolomyya from which stems "kolomiyky" is of the Arabian origin, too. "Kalam" - the Arabic word for "percept, the word of God", "kalamy" -a man who preaches Muslim dogmas. From the same word - ten villages Kolomievka, Kolomyychiha, Kolome, Kolomak, etc. A number of villages named Kolomiytsevo exist also in Russia.


    Interview professor Tishchenko

  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Ibericus For This Useful Post:

     hartaisarlag (08-03-2020),  palamede (05-10-2020),  parasar (08-01-2020)

  3. #2
    Moderator
    Posts
    1,552
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1a-Z93
    mtDNA (M)
    H28a/H1b5(Wife)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibericus View Post
    I found this guy named "Kolomak" from Poland in my Berber haplogroup (E-Z5009, TMRCA about 1900ybp). Well, I did some research and I found this interview, which would explain it all. I thought it would be cool to share as genetics and and language seem to paint the exact same picture.



    - Whether on the territory of Ukraine there were settlements of the Arabs?

    - I think, yes, there were. Otherwise, how to explain numerous villages with the names of Arabika (Zaporozhye area), Arapovka (Lugansk area), Arapovichi (Chernigov area), Voropai, Gorobievka, Vorobevka, etc.? And there are so many surnames from this root! As I already told you, the name of a sparrow birdie (orobye, orobets, vorobey - Rus, Ukr.) can be connected with a name of these people. For its character, as it understood our ancestors...

    It is interesting that Ukrainian Kolomyya from which stems "kolomiyky" is of the Arabian origin, too. "Kalam" - the Arabic word for "percept, the word of God", "kalamy" -a man who preaches Muslim dogmas. From the same word - ten villages Kolomievka, Kolomyychiha, Kolome, Kolomak, etc. A number of villages named Kolomiytsevo exist also in Russia.


    Interview professor Tishchenko
    I don't doubt that some Christian Arabs lived at some point in history in cities of Eastern Europe but villages in north-eastern Ukraine were rather populated/founded by locals and the village names are not related to the term "Arab". Also it is possible that he got his unusal Y-DNA from Jews, who had ancestors in Iberia or the Maghreb.
    Last edited by Coldmountains; 05-08-2020 at 06:40 PM.

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Coldmountains For This Useful Post:

     Aha (08-01-2020),  Mis (08-01-2020)

  5. #3
    Registered Users
    Posts
    473
    Sex
    Location
    Yorkshire's PREMIER city
    Ethnicity
    Celto-Germanic
    Nationality
    English
    Y-DNA (P)
    Possibly R1b
    mtDNA (M)
    H1a3a1

    England North of England Ireland Scotland Germany Romani Star of David
    The presence of an English person with a Berber haplogroup is intriguing. I've done a bit of reading and found that the Fouke/Foulks/Foulkes surname is of apparent Norman derivation. There are documented Berber/French intermarriages in the period before 1066 due to the presence of Islamic caliphates in the south of France (one of the grandsons of Charles Martel-and one of my many times great-grandfathers- married a "Moorish" woman). The Normans mainly stayed in the north as their name implied, but they did marry people from other regions.

    Unfortunately my Arabic is terrible so I'm not sure if there's any cognate for Fouke aside from "fowq", meaning above.
    Target: mildlycurly_scaled
    Distance: 1.3578% / 0.01357814
    57.0 Irish
    37.6 English
    2.6 Roma_Barcelona
    1.8 Ashkenazi_Germany
    1.0 Roma_Granada


    I make music. Listen to it here: Hidden Content or here: Hidden Content

  6. #4
    Registered Users
    Posts
    149
    Sex
    Nationality
    Spanish
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-M183

    Quote Originally Posted by mildlycurly View Post
    The presence of an English person with a Berber haplogroup is intriguing. I've done a bit of reading and found that the Fouke/Foulks/Foulkes surname is of apparent Norman derivation. There are documented Berber/French intermarriages in the period before 1066 due to the presence of Islamic caliphates in the south of France (one of the grandsons of Charles Martel-and one of my many times great-grandfathers- married a "Moorish" woman). The Normans mainly stayed in the north as their name implied, but they did marry people from other regions.

    Unfortunately my Arabic is terrible so I'm not sure if there's any cognate for Fouke aside from "fowq", meaning above.
    Yes, he is also in another group called "British Nobles Barons Gentry". There is another English sample here:

    https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FT76699/

    "John Miller died Stamford Connecticut 1642" who shares group with two southern Moroccans. Their TMRCA is only 1650 so that would be too late for the "Roman Berber legions" explanation. I think you are right.

  7. #5
    Junior Member
    Posts
    7
    Sex

    Hello, I am the Foulks mentioned above, who matches with the Pole that started the original topic of discussion on this thread. Since then, we have also matched with a native Moroccan, and Dr. Bachir, E-M81 Project Administrator, has placed all three of us at 1800 ybp. However, on SNP Tracker, the three of us have an uncertainty path that could take us to Southern France, in the Languedoc, about 850 CE. For just myself and the Moroccan, YFull has our E-FT190481 originating 1950 ybp, so you can see that there is a wide variance in the interpretation of our results.
    My ancestors came from Derbyshire, and I took the Big Y test of FamilyTreeDNA. My surname may have really been Fawkes, as my Quaker ancestor Thomas Fowke (many spelling variations), was recorded by Quaker founder George Fox as asserting that his surname was actually Fawkes/Faux. In support of this, I have a 37-4 match with an originally Leicestershire Fawkes family, who have claimed for generations that they are of the same bloodline as Guy Fawkes, but they have not tested beyond the Y-37 level.
    It has been speculated that the Fawkes descend from the Norman Vaux family, having "V" interchangeable with "F", and much earlier, and with no evidence, it was claimed that the Norman Vaux themselves descended from the Provencal Baux family, which would match my SNP Tracker uncertainty path in the South of France at that time, but, as mentioned, there is no proof of that. It does make for an intriguing possible connection, though.
    Last edited by Barry Foulks; 08-01-2020 at 04:27 AM.

  8. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Barry Foulks For This Useful Post:

     Caius Agrippa (08-01-2020),  drobbah (08-01-2020),  Grossvater (08-01-2020),  Ibericus (08-01-2020)

  9. #6
    Registered Users
    Posts
    149
    Sex
    Nationality
    Spanish
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-M183

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Foulks View Post
    Hello, I am the Foulks mentioned above, who matches with the Pole that started the original topic of discussion on this thread. Since then, we have also matched with a native Moroccan, and Dr. Bachir, E-M81 Project Administrator, has placed all three of us at 1800 ybp. However, on SNP Tracker, the three of us have an uncertainty path that could take us to Southern France, in the Languedoc, about 850 CE. For just myself and the Moroccan, YFull has our E-FT190481 originating 1950 ybp, so you can see that there is a wide variance in the interpretation of our results.
    My ancestors came from Derbyshire, and I took the Big Y test of FamilyTreeDNA. My surname may have really been Fawkes, as my Quaker ancestor Thomas Fowke (many spelling variations), was recorded by Quaker founder George Fox as asserting that his surname was actually Fawkes/Faux. In support of this, I have a 37-4 match with an originally Leicestershire Fawkes family, who have claimed for generations that they are of the same bloodline as Guy Fawkes, but they have not tested beyond the Y-37 level.
    It has been speculated that the Fawkes descend from the Norman Vaux family, having "V" interchangeable with "F", and much earlier, and with no evidence, it was claimed that the Norman Vaux themselves descended from the Provencal Baux family, which would match my SNP Tracker uncertainty path in the South of France at that time, but, as mentioned, there is no proof of that. It does make for an intriguing possible connection, though.
    Welcome! Thanks for the explanation. I am Z-5009* but my results are not displayed because I tested with Yseq. We only match at 31 out of the 37 markers so I don't think I'm under your sublacde, or anyone else's for that matter. My CDY is particularly odd at 32-37.
    Last edited by Ibericus; 08-01-2020 at 11:38 AM.

  10. #7
    Registered Users
    Posts
    113
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Neo-Ottomanist
    Y-DNA (P)
    I2

    My direct paternal line from Kolomyia.

  11. #8
    Junior Member
    Posts
    7
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibericus View Post
    Welcome! Thanks for the explanation. I am Z-5009* but my results are not displayed because I tested with Yseq. We only match at 31 out of the 37 markers so I don't think I'm under your sublacde, or anyone else's for that matter. My CDY is particularly odd at 32-37.
    YFull just posted its latest update, and I am still only with the Moroccan (obviously the Pole did not send his info to YFull yet), with our E-FT190481 formed an average of 1950 ybp and TMRCA an average 1850 ybp, which is very close to the 1800 ybp calculated by Dr. Bachir of the E-M81 Project for all three of us. Also, the low end of that YFull TMRCA average would be 1200 ybp, which is nearly spot on for the 850 CE that SNP Tracker gave for all three of us. Obviously my Moroccan match stayed in North Africa, while the Pole wound up on the European Continent, and my ancestors made it to Derbyshire by the beginning of the 17th century, which is where I have traced my Foulks paper trail back to, leading to me. The oldest Fouke surname I have found in Derbyshire is a Richard Fouke listed in the 1381 Poll Tax, but I have no idea if I am related to him. SNP Tracker also shows 4 Spanish testers for E-Z5009.
    Last edited by Barry Foulks; 08-01-2020 at 02:41 PM.

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to Barry Foulks For This Useful Post:

     Ibericus (08-01-2020)

  13. #9
    Junior Member
    Posts
    7
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Moldovlah View Post
    My direct paternal line from Kolomyia.
    Do you know what your Haplogroup and latest subclade is? My Polish match has traced his paternal line to 19th century Silesia.
    Last edited by Barry Foulks; 08-01-2020 at 02:26 PM.

  14. #10
    Junior Member
    Posts
    7
    Sex

    By the way, besides my Y testing with FamilyTreeDNA, I have also done autosomal testing with Ancestry, and neither shows any Jewish ancestry at all for me. I mention that as it may have some bearing on the ancient origins of my Polish match.
    Last edited by Barry Foulks; 08-01-2020 at 03:04 PM.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 83
    Last Post: 07-30-2020, 09:00 AM
  2. Genetics of Egypt's Siwa Berbers?
    By Sikeliot in forum Northern
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-04-2019, 01:11 AM
  3. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 11-08-2019, 06:55 AM
  4. Replies: 12
    Last Post: 05-21-2019, 06:59 PM
  5. mtDNA C in the Ukraine
    By paulina thorne in forum C
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 08-21-2018, 03:23 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •