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Thread: European admixture In Latinos

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by passenger View Post
    These are interesting, and the graphs are fun. One problem with these studies though is that the samples are limited to test takers, so inevitably are a biased sampling. I find it hard to believe, for example, that the average Cuban is that overwhelmingly Southern European, as opposed to SSA (37-45% of the population identifies as mixed race or black according to statistics from the past two decades). If you look at Guyana, you can see that individuals of South Asian descent are probably somewhat over-represented. Likewise in Peru, I would imagine the Southern European to Amerindian ratio is somewhat skewed, since 86% of the population identifies as either Mestizo (60.2%) or Amerindian (25.75), and only 5.9% white according to the most recent census figures. We have to take into account that wealth and physical and social mobility play a role in terms of the types of people who have access to or interest in these tests.
    Completely agree. These graphs are only representative of the upper strata of Latin American society, which will naturally be more European on average. In Brazil, one peer-reviewed paper confirmed that wealthness and European admixture are directly correlated, at least in sectors where colonial ancestry predominates, which we can probably extrapolate to most of Latin America.

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Token View Post
    only representative of the upper strata of Latin American society
    Not true. In many cases the averages are within the ballpark of national estimates by several studies which sampled peoples of various segments. As a customer of 23andme for almost a decade, I can attest many are middle to lower class immigrants living in the US. Besides Gedmatch has customers who got tested in Latin America too, without sending the kits. The company Genera, which works with Family Tree DNA, is based in Brazil, f.e. And the tests are not particularly expensive.
    Last edited by Piquerobi; 05-11-2020 at 08:58 PM.

  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piquerobi View Post
    Not true. In many cases the averages are within the ballpark of national estimates by several studies which sampled peoples of various segments. As a customer of 23andme for almost a decade, I can attest many are middle to lower class immigrants living in the US. Besides Gedmatch has customers who got tested in Latin America too, without sending the kits. The company Genera, which works with Family Tree DNA, is based in Brazil, f.e. And the tests are not particularly expensive. I have even seen domestic servants here in Brazil who got tested there.
    "Only representative" is probably an exaggeration. That's why I prefer to use the term "skewed". It's not that the tests are completely unrepresentative of people from different social strata, but they are certainly skewed towards wealthier segments, and thus towards certain ethnic groups.

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  6. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by passenger View Post
    "Only representative" is probably an exaggeration. That's why I prefer to use the term "skewed"..
    That's my point! Skewed yes. "Only representative" is an exaggeration in my opinion.

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    The results are also more or less representative depending on the country. In the case of Brazil, most people tested are Brazilians living in Brazil and the results aren't far off. In the case of Cubans and other Latin Americans, the samples belong mostly to people living abroad. I think Token's words are completely right at least for the Cuban and some more countries samples.

    I can attest many are middle to lower class immigrants living in the US
    I think this isn't true for Cubans in any sense. Most Cubans living in US are rich or middle class Cubans, many with recent Canarian and mainland Spanish ancestry.

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  9. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caius Agrippa View Post
    I think this isn't true for Cubans in any sense
    On 23andme, Gedmatch and Family Tree DNA I have found cousins from Cuba who worked at airports, police departments, etc. They're not all rich at all. Spanish input in Cuba is high even though if going by the averages only of customers on 23andme, f.e, the results may be skewed. This is from a study on Cuba:

    CubaDNA.55..jpg

    The samples, by %:

    As indicated above, 55% of the participants self-reported to be “blanco”, 33% “mestizo” and 12% “negro”. These proportions are similar to those based on the report of an external observer; there were discrepancies for only 65 out of the 1019 individuals.
    https://journals.plos.org/plosgeneti...l.pgen.1004488
    Last edited by Piquerobi; 05-11-2020 at 09:39 PM.

  10. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piquerobi View Post
    Not true. In many cases the averages are within the ballpark of national estimates by several studies which sampled peoples of various segments. As a customer of 23andme for almost a decade, I can attest many are middle to lower class immigrants living in the US. Besides Gedmatch has customers who got tested in Latin America too, without sending the kits. The company Genera, which works with Family Tree DNA, is based in Brazil, f.e. And the tests are not particularly expensive.
    Please, show me one paper where most Brazilians are in the 80-100% range, i want to see. I was directly involved in the spreadsheet that these graphs are based on and i can attest that all of the samples collected come from Gedmatch and nearly all of the kits come from people that bought a kit. Most of the kits were collected before MyHeritage started shipping back the swabs so many of them were acquired during a travel to another country (we Brazilians know how hard it is to ship the kit back).The problem is not the price of the test per se, it is the possibility to waste money in futile stuff and the level of education that it takes for a person to see a point in buying a ancestry test.
    Last edited by Token; 05-11-2020 at 09:43 PM.

  11. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Token View Post
    Please, show me one paper where most Brazilians are in the 80-100% range, i want to see.
    The samples from Gedmatch and 23andme gave as a result around 70/75% Euro when it comes to Brazil. National estimates by several studies are not far off:

    We analyzed data from 25 studies in 38 different Brazilian populations. European (EUR) ancestry is the major contributor to the genetic background of Brazilians, followed by African (AFR), and Amerindian (AMR) ancestries. The pooled ancestry contributions were 0.62 EUR, 0.21 AFR, and 0.17AMR. The Southern region had a greater EUR contribution (0.77) than other regions. Individuals from the Northeast (NE) region had the highest AFR contribution (0.27) whereas individuals from the North regions had more AMR contribution (0.32). In the Latin America context, Brazil has the 5th high EUR contribution, the 12th for the AFR component and the 10th for the AMR ancestry.
    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...002/ajhb.22714

    I have had an account on 23andme and on Gedmatch for many years and I can attest only the minority are of the upper class. Rich people are the minority everywhere. The majority are middle to lower middle class. And people from the lower classes are well represented too, even among those who live in the US.

    I am a Brazilian of poor background and I got tested by 23andme and Family Tree DNA because I have an interest in knowing things. And I was born and have always lived in Brazil. Many others are like me. Saying it is representative of only the "upper strata" is not true at all. Skewed upwards yes. Representative only of the rich, no.

    And by the way Family Tree DNA has always sent the kit to Brazil. And as I said many Brazilians on Gedmatch were tested by Genera, which is a company working in partnership with Family Tree DNA.
    Last edited by Piquerobi; 05-12-2020 at 08:17 PM.

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  13. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Piquerobi View Post
    The samples from Gedmatch and 23andme gave as a result around 70/75% Euro when it comes to Brazil. National estimates by several studies show Brazil to be about 60/65% European:


    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...002/ajhb.22714

    They are not far off when it comes to Brazil.

    I have had an account on 23andme and on Gedmatch for many years and I can attest only the minority are of the upper class. Rich people are the minority everywhere. The majority are middle to lower middle class. And people from the lower classes are well represented too, even among those who live in the US.

    I am a Brazilian of poor background and I got tested by 23andme and Family Tree DNA because I have an interest in knowing things. And I was born and have always lived in Brazil. Many others are like me. Saying it is representantive of only the "upper strata" is not true at all. Skewed upwards yes. Representative only of the rich, no.

    And by the way Family Tree DNA has always sent the kit to Brazil. And as I said many Brazilians on Gedmatch were tested by Genera which is a company working in partnership with Family Tree DNA.
    Tbh anyone In the U.S could get a DNA test.. Even many Latin American countries have enough capita for any Individual to purchase a DNA test.

    Many Mexicans from Mexico have got their dna tested and Ironically are always the white ones . While the Mexicans living In the U.S are the predominantly mestizo 40-60% European .


    So no In realilty these results aren't that far from the reality.

  14. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nazut View Post
    So no In realilty these results aren't that far from the reality.
    The Gedmatch results of Colombia, Peru, Argentina and Chile are also close to national studies. As a whole they can be considered informative in my opinion, though not the "final truth".

    The "final truth" would come only if all Latin Americans were tested.
    Last edited by Piquerobi; 05-11-2020 at 10:08 PM.

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