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Thread: Initial Upper Palaeolithic Homo sapiens from Bacho Kiro Cave, Bulgaria[

  1. #461
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kale View Post
    It's not a zero edge, ZK branches off 1 or 2 units closer to Eurasians than BachoKiro's branching point (but then BachoKiro gets 50% Tianyuan). For F2's do you mean residuals?

    EDIT: So from the BachoKiro paper I recreated the phylogeny involving BK, Ust Ishim, Kostenki, Sunghir, Goyet, Tianyuan, and ran that through automated qpgraph. Ust Ishim gave up the BK mixture and gave (as Chad suggested) a ZlatyKun edge (0 drift though) into Kostenki/Sunghir.
    Do you think Zlaty Kun is a Basal Eurasian or something related to them?

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    Zlaty Kun is basal to all the other Crown Eurasians we have, but I don't think it's the Basal Eurasian. I think it will be pretty obvious when the Basal Eurasians we all want to see turn up, whatever they turn out to be. Hopefully we'll eventually get something of Paleolithic vintage from Egypt, Arabia, or the Levant. I suspect the BE mystery will finally be solved when that happens.
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  4. #463
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michalis Moriopoulos View Post
    Zlaty Kun is basal to all the other Crown Eurasians we have, but I don't think it's the Basal Eurasian. I think it will be pretty obvious when the Basal Eurasians we all want to see turn up, whatever they turn out to be. Hopefully we'll eventually get something of Paleolithic vintage from Egypt, Arabia, or the Levant. I suspect the BE mystery will finally be solved when that happens.
    Hm, you are probably right. My own thoughts is that if a real population, then they are either from Arabia or North Africa.

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    Anybody know how I can get the Zlaty Kun genome? I REALLY wanna play with that one...

    I already have the 3 IUP Bacho Kiro samples and the one "Gravettian-era" Bacho Kiro in ANCESTRYMAP format along with many other Paleolithic Euros... if you get the ANCESTRYMAP files for one sample (like Zlaty Kun) is there an easy way to merge it to my existing files?

    Thanks in advance...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michalis Moriopoulos View Post
    Zlaty Kun is basal to all the other Crown Eurasians we have, but I don't think it's the Basal Eurasian. I think it will be pretty obvious when the Basal Eurasians we all want to see turn up, whatever they turn out to be. Hopefully we'll eventually get something of Paleolithic vintage from Egypt, Arabia, or the Levant. I suspect the BE mystery will finally be solved when that happens.
    Curious isn't it, how the estimated split of macrohaplogroup CT (~150k-80kya) coincides with a seeming dearth of modern human remains in the Near East? And in fact, how the Shanidar Cave site in Kurdistan features Neanderthals in 80kya, while the later 40kya samples are apparently heavily human-admixed Neanderthals... yet modern Near Easterners have less Neanderthal admixture than Crown Eurasians.

    Meanwhile for those keeping score, we have the October 2020 paper which Iain Mathieson collaborated on which concluded:
    Ancient Admixture into Africa from the ancestors of non-Africans
    We find evidence for substantial migration from the ancestors of present-day Eurasians into African groups between 40 and 70 thousand years ago, predating the divergence of Eastern and Western Eurasian lineages. We find that the method infers high rates of migration from descendants of the OoA event (’non-Africans’) to Africans, but not in the opposite direction, in the period 30–70kya corresponding to the Late Middle Paleolithic
    And from December 2020, a paper using a deep learning approach to explain African diversity:

    Here, we used a novel deep learning approach coupled with Approximate Bayesian Computation and Sequential Monte Carlo to revisit these hypotheses from the whole genome sequence perspective. Our results support the back to Africa model over other alternatives.
    Anyone can replicate these results quite easily using qpGraph, getting Yoruba and ShumLaka to absorb substantial Ust Ishim/Bacho Kiro-related ancestry:

    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post763322

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    Quote Originally Posted by Max_H View Post
    Hm, you are probably right. My own thoughts is that if a real population, then they are either from Arabia or North Africa.
    North Africa was probably ANA dominated prior to the arrival of West Eurasian/BE ancestry.I lean toward Arabia as the home of Basal Eurasian with the Levant/Egypt being the melting pot between Northern African ANA (E-M35), West Eurasians & Basal Eurasians.Arabia makes more sense especially if those mesolithic & neolithic Iranian samples do indeed have more Basal Eurasian ancestry than the Natufians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drobbah View Post
    North Africa was probably ANA dominated prior to the arrival of West Eurasian/BE ancestry.I lean toward Arabia as the home of Basal Eurasian with the Levant/Egypt being the melting pot between Northern African ANA (E-M35), West Eurasians & Basal Eurasians.Arabia makes more sense especially if those mesolithic & neolithic Iranian samples do indeed have more Basal Eurasian ancestry than the Natufians.
    Possibly, but since you mention it I am also not sure if ANA is an actual population (same as BE) or a mix of something else and BE (or Crown Eurasian). If it is real then it would likely be associated with Ydna E-M35 but what lineages does that leave Basal Eurasians carrying?

    Also, could you link me where Iran_N shows more BE than Natufians? Quite interesting

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  11. #468
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    Quote Originally Posted by K33 View Post
    Curious isn't it, how the estimated split of macrohaplogroup CT (~150k-80kya) coincides with a seeming dearth of modern human remains in the Near East? And in fact, how the Shanidar Cave site in Kurdistan features Neanderthals in 80kya, while the later 40kya samples are apparently heavily human-admixed Neanderthals... yet modern Near Easterners have less Neanderthal admixture than Crown Eurasians.

    Meanwhile for those keeping score, we have the October 2020 paper which Iain Mathieson collaborated on which concluded:
    Ancient Admixture into Africa from the ancestors of non-Africans


    And from December 2020, a paper using a deep learning approach to explain African diversity:



    Anyone can replicate these results quite easily using qpGraph, getting Yoruba and ShumLaka to absorb substantial Ust Ishim/Bacho Kiro-related ancestry:

    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post763322
    Very interesting but if this is true, then what would the uniparental evidence of such an Eurasian migration be? Ydna E? Furthermore, did you consider the reverse scenario or bi-directional gene flow?

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    Dang I keep trying a bunch of different starter graphs to test potential deep structure, but a lot of the time it reverts to this. It's super clean but man that is a crazy drift edge for the para-BachoKiro pop.
     

    digraph G {
    size = "7.5,10";
    Root -> South_Africa_2000BPSG [ label = "21" ];
    Root -> OOA1 [ label = "21" ];
    OOA1 -> MotaSG [ label = "140" ];
    OOA1 -> E0 [ label = "33" ];
    E0 -> ZlatyKunSG [ label = "144" ];
    E0 -> E1 [ label = "1" ];
    E1 -> E3_multi1_2x [ label = "2" ];
    E1 -> E1d [ label = "32" ];
    E3_multi1_2 -> E3_multi1_2xy [ label = "11" ];
    E6 -> Tianyuan [ label = "132" ];
    E6 -> E7_g [ label = "9" ];
    W2 -> admixc [ style=dotted, label = "84%" ];
    W2 -> admixj [ style=dotted, label = "65%" ];
    W3 -> Kostenki14 [ label = "131" ];
    W3 -> SunghirSG [ label = "11" ];
    ANE -> Yana_UPSG [ label = "10" ];
    ANE -> MA1SG [ label = "139" ];
    E7_g -> OngeDG_s [ label = "1" ];
    E3_multi1_2x -> E1r [ label = "0" ];
    E3_multi1_2xy -> W2 [ label = "1" ];
    E3_multi1_2xy -> W3 [ label = "3" ];
    OngeDG_s -> admixe [ style=dotted, label = "36%" ];
    E1d -> BachoKiro_IUP [ label = "39" ];
    E1d -> E1dj [ label = "103" ];
    admixw -> E7_gx [ label = "5" ];
    admixe -> OngeDG [ label = "33" ];
    E1dj -> admixw [ style=dotted, label = "15%" ];
    E1dj -> admixc [ style=dotted, label = "16%" ];
    admixc -> GoyetQ116_1 [ label = "133" ];
    E7_gx -> E6 [ label = "3" ];
    E7_gx -> admixj [ style=dotted, label = "35%" ];
    admixj -> ANE [ label = "3" ];
    OngeDG_s -> Japan_Jomon [ label = "44" ];
    E7_g -> PrimorskyKrai_Boisman_MN [ label = "22" ];
    E1r -> E3_multi1_2 [ label = "0" ];
    E3_multi1_2x -> admixw [ style=dotted, label = "85%" ];
    E3_multi1_2 -> Ust_IshimDG [ label = "4" ];
    E1r -> admixe [ style=dotted, label = "64%" ];
    }
    Collection of 14,000 d-stats: Hidden Content Part 2: Hidden Content Part 3: Hidden Content PM me for d-stats, qpadm, qpgraph, or f3-outgroup nmonte models.

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  14. #470
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kale View Post
    Dang I keep trying a bunch of different starter graphs to test potential deep structure, but a lot of the time it reverts to this. It's super clean but man that is a crazy drift edge for the para-BachoKiro pop.
    [spoiler]
    Is it possible to get Zlaty Kun to admix into Mota or SouthAfrica_2000BP? 36kya Hofmeyr Skull in S Africa is morphologically most similar to Paleolithic Europeans according to Max Planck...

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