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Thread: Initial Upper Palaeolithic Homo sapiens from Bacho Kiro Cave, Bulgaria[

  1. #21
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    I'm looking forward to some autosomal DNA and hopefully a few y-hg on this bunch!
    Probably a safe bet to say all the pre-40kbp individuals will be Ust_Ishim/Oase-like. Y-lines though hmm...
    F*, K*, K2a-M2338, C1a/C1a2 likely, maybe a C1b like Kostenki14
    D*, H*/pre-H2 would be quite interesting
    I don't suspect we'll see IJ*/I in any except the most recent sample that has mt-U8
    Collection of 14,000 d-stats: Hidden Content Part 2: Hidden Content Part 3: Hidden Content PM me for d-stats, qpadm, qpgraph, or f3-outgroup nmonte models.

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michalis Moriopoulos View Post
    I look forward to seeing if they can get DNA from the Grotta del Cavallo teeth from Apulia...


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grotta_del_Cavallo

    I had never heard of Bacho Kiro before today, and I hope it's possible to get autosomal DNA from them, too.
    The site is reputed to be an entry point of anatomical modern humans into Europe.

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  5. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCO View Post
    Amazing revelations. So a population distantly related to Onge and Andamanese also reached Europe in the Palaeolithic.
    In what way are these people from 40k years ago especially related to modern people like Onge again?

  6. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kale View Post
    I'm looking forward to some autosomal DNA and hopefully a few y-hg on this bunch!
    Probably a safe bet to say all the pre-40kbp individuals will be Ust_Ishim/Oase-like. Y-lines though hmm...
    F*, K*, K2a-M2338, C1a/C1a2 likely, maybe a C1b like Kostenki14
    D*, H*/pre-H2 would be quite interesting
    I don't suspect we'll see IJ*/I in any except the most recent sample that has mt-U8
    It's just 200 km from the site in Romania where the Oase samples are from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by epoch View Post
    It's just 200 km from the site in Romania where the Oase samples are from.
    In the Bacho Kiro paper it is mentioned that Oase 1 could be actually older than its current date of 37-40,000 years. This would explain why he had a close Neanderthal relative and his (possible) connection with the Basho Kiro group that lived relatively close (one of the Bash Kiro specimens carries a N mtDNA haplogroup that is most similar to that of Oase 1). Thus, it would make sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kale View Post
    I'm looking forward to some autosomal DNA and hopefully a few y-hg on this bunch!
    Probably a safe bet to say all the pre-40kbp individuals will be Ust_Ishim/Oase-like. Y-lines though hmm...
    F*, K*, K2a-M2338, C1a/C1a2 likely, maybe a C1b like Kostenki14
    D*, H*/pre-H2 would be quite interesting
    I don't suspect we'll see IJ*/I in any except the most recent sample that has mt-U8
    But where did the Kostenki14/Goyet Q116 like ancestry came from? I can image the Campanian Eruption wiping out the Uluzzian. But there were modern humans north from the eruptions influence: Bohunician and Szeletian. By the way, Kostenki 14 was actually found above the tephra layer. I am sure that this eruption had a great influence.

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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by epoch View Post
    But where did the Kostenki14/Goyet Q116 like ancestry came from? I can image the Campanian Eruption wiping out the Uluzzian. But there were modern humans north from the eruptions influence: Bohunician and Szeletian. By the way, Kostenki 14 was actually found above the tephra layer. I am sure that this eruption had a great influence.
    If I remember this correctly, Goyet Q116 and Kostenki 14 aren't that closely related... they belong to two different lineages that (apparently) didn't intermingle a lot. Also, GoyetQ116 was found in Belgium; I guess that there were several waves of modern humans that moved from Central Asia/Siberia to Europe.

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  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milkyway View Post
    If I remember this correctly, Goyet Q116 and Kostenki 14 aren't that closely related... they belong to two different lineages that (apparently) didn't intermingle a lot. Also, GoyetQ116 was found in Belgium; I guess that there were several waves of modern humans that moved from Central Asia/Siberia to Europe.
    But in the larger picture they are clearly from the same cluster. And if there were several waves, where did they originate from? Middle East? Then where is Basal Eurasian from?

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    Quote Originally Posted by epoch View Post
    But in the larger picture they are clearly from the same cluster. And if there were several waves, where did they originate from? Middle East? Then where is Basal Eurasian from?
    They're also more closely related to the 24,000 year old Mal'ta boy from Siberia than to 45,000 year old Ust'Ishim, so maybe that cluster existed in Siberia 37-40,000 years ago? No idea, there are too many gaps. Basal Eurasians didn't supposedly live in Arabia or North Africa? In any case, it seems they had little if any contact with Neanderthals.

  17. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faravid View Post
    In what way are these people from 40k years ago especially related to modern people like Onge again?
    I think RCO was referring to the mtDNA branching point.

    Autosomally perhaps like Ust Ishim was, but barely.

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