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Thread: Current State of Science on Z2103: Balkan or Maykop?

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    Current State of Science on Z2103: Balkan or Maykop?

    Dear Researchers,

    I have yesterday received the report of R1b-BY62796 (d/s of Z2103>>Z2109). I have seen that the Eupedia site presents two theories for the entry of Z2103 into Anatolia: the Balkan theory and the Maykop theory. Has there been any conclusive scientific literature addressing this question?

    My particular Z2103 lineage wound up in Eastern Sicily so I am wondering how and when the journey from either the Balkans or the Maykops arrived in Eastern Sicily. My best guess is that the Ionians, who colonized Eastern Sicily in Magna Graecia times, brought the lineage to Sicily from either Ionian Greece or Anatolia (i.e. Ionia). So if this particular lineage is Ionian, that would suggest that at least some Z2103 was either in Greece or Western Anatolia prior to moving across the Aegean into Eastern Sicily. Does this make any sense?

    This still leaves me in doubt whether the Z2103 lineage came from the Balkans or the Maykops before becoming Ionian/Sicilian.

    Is there a G25 model (custom or otherwise) I could use to help answer this question by analyzing my Uncle's components versus some BA populations?

    Thanks.
    Last edited by PureNonsense; 05-13-2020 at 09:54 PM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by PureNonsense View Post
    Dear Researchers,

    I have yesterday received the report of R1b-BY62796 (d/s of Z2103>>Z2109). I have seen that the Eupedia site presents two theories for the entry of Z2103 into Anatolia: the Balkan theory and the Maykop theory. Has there been any conclusive scientific literature addressing this question?

    My particular Z2103 lineage wound up in Eastern Sicily so I am wondering how and when the journey from either the Balkans or the Maykops arrived in Eastern Sicily. My best guess is that the Ionians, who colonized Eastern Sicily in Magna Graecia times, brought the lineage to Sicily from either Ionian Greece or Anatolia (i.e. Ionia). So if this particular lineage is Ionian, that would suggest that at least some Z2103 was either in Greece or Western Anatolia prior to moving across the Aegean into Eastern Sicily. Does this make any sense?

    This still leaves me in doubt whether the Z2103 lineage came from the Balkans or the Maykops before becoming Ionian/Sicilian.

    Is there a G25 model (custom or otherwise) I could use to help answer this question by analyzing my Uncle's components versus some BA populations?

    Thanks.
    There is no Z2103 in Maykop, and we do have data points from the region. However, recently we do have Bronze Age data for northern Balkan Z2103 (2100 BC), probably introduced via Yamnaya, despite being centuries after the incursions. I'd also argue Z2103 is considerably higher in some key Balkan populations today like Albanians, Greeks, and former Greek colonies in Turkey that this was the likely route, rather than from Maykop.
    YDNA: R1b-BY50830 Stepney, London, UK George Wood b. 1782 English <-> Bavarian cluster
    maternal-gf YDNA: ?? Gurr, James ~1740, Smarden, Kent, England.
    maternal-gm YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    maternal-ggf YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-Z17901. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton Ireland(?) 1800s

    other:
    Welch: early 1800s E-M84 Kent, England.

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