Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 70

Thread: No Bantus or Niger-Congo In Cameroon

  1. #1

    No Bantus or Niger-Congo In Cameroon

    This is a ground breaking study for African genetics;


    Nature (2020)

    Our knowledge of ancient human population structure in sub-Saharan Africa, particularly prior to the advent of food production, remains limited. Here we report genome-wide DNA data from four children—two of whom were buried approximately 8,000 years ago and two 3,000 years ago—from Shum Laka (Cameroon), one of the earliest known archaeological sites....However, the genome-wide ancestry profiles of all four individuals are most similar to those of present-day hunter-gatherers from western Central Africa, which implies that populations in western Cameroon today—as well as speakers of Bantu languages from across the continent—are not descended substantially from the population represented by these four people.

    As far away as 6,000 BC and recently as 1,000 BC the area that is hypothesized to be the homeland of the Bantu Migration, is somehow void of any genetic resemblance towards Bantus. Not one sample! Now while more work is obviously needed in this region of Africa, this study could impact how we perceive the Bantu migration. The Bantu migration is a theory first pushed by Joseph Greenberg, but the area of Cameroon is not recognized by any Bantu ethnic group as their "homeland".

  2. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Ramond For This Useful Post:

     Brwn_trd (05-16-2020),  Hurricane (05-17-2020),  Piquerobi (05-14-2020),  Power77 (05-15-2020),  Ryukendo (05-16-2020),  SWAHILLI_PRINCE16 (05-15-2020)

  3. #2
    It's fair to also point out that these populations are connected to bantu peoples and other west Africans. After all 64% of their genome was from the same branch as west Africans. In fact, they are the first ancient population with a definitive connection to west Africans.

    shum laka.png

    This population is the first with a strong connection to west Africans. IMHO, this signifies we now have better evidence of the general vicinity of west African populations. It sounds like a tautology, but they were somewhere west. We are starting to have evidence hinting to this. My guess of their location is further west. One population (Niger-Congo A) out far west towards the atlantic, and another (Bantu) in a more central west African position. And possibly more northern as well. West Africa is a real mystery. This paper was invaluable.

  4. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Brwn_trd For This Useful Post:

     pgbk87 (05-15-2020),  Power77 (05-15-2020),  ThaYamamoto (05-16-2020)

  5. #3
    Registered Users
    Posts
    675
    Location
    Brazil
    Nationality
    Brazilian

    Brazil
    It will be interesting if they manage to test many more samples and to reveal what happened as studies on Europe, the Americas and some other places have.

  6. #4
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,560
    Sex
    Location
    Calgary
    Ethnicity
    Anglo
    Nationality
    Canadian
    Y-DNA (P)
    I2-S2361 < L801
    mtDNA (M)
    H2a2b(1)
    mtDNA (P)
    H3

    Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramond View Post
    As far away as 6,000 BC and recently as 1,000 BC the area that is hypothesized to be the homeland of the Bantu Migration, is somehow void of any genetic resemblance towards Bantus. Not one sample! Now while more work is obviously needed in this region of Africa, this study could impact how we perceive the Bantu migration. The Bantu migration is a theory first pushed by Joseph Greenberg, but the area of Cameroon is not recognized by any Bantu ethnic group as their "homeland".
    There was a thread for this study when it first came out: Shum Laka Ancient DNA paper released! Though most of the discussion ended up being about Taforalt. Bantu migration theory is much older than Greenberg- though IIRC he was one the one who proposed that their homeland was in Western Cameroon.

  7. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Megalophias For This Useful Post:

     Brwn_trd (05-16-2020),  pgbk87 (05-15-2020),  Power77 (05-15-2020),  Ramond (05-15-2020),  Ryukendo (06-03-2020),  ThaYamamoto (05-16-2020)

  8. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Brwn_trd View Post
    We are starting to have evidence hinting to this. My guess of their location is further west.
    From an archaeological perspective that may be unlikely. McIntosh and McIntosh (1986) has indicated that there were few inhabitable sites in West Africa during the Saharan Holocene period (10,000 BC - 3,500 BC). The same researchers also indicated that the Niger-Delta (which has some of the highest concentration of NC speakers) was subsequently sparsely populated during these periods.

    While there is an indication of a deep ancestral connection between NC speakers and the SL samples, they're still obviously too distinct to imply that there was any sort of smooth transition into the contemporary population in the region.

    And possibly more northern as well.
    North or possibly East seems more plausible IMHO with this data. Does anyone know where the oldest results of the M2 lineage have been found if not West Africa?

  9. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramond View Post
    This is a ground breaking study for African genetics;


    Nature (2020)

    Our knowledge of ancient human population structure in sub-Saharan Africa, particularly prior to the advent of food production, remains limited. Here we report genome-wide DNA data from four children—two of whom were buried approximately 8,000 years ago and two 3,000 years ago—from Shum Laka (Cameroon), one of the earliest known archaeological sites....However, the genome-wide ancestry profiles of all four individuals are most similar to those of present-day hunter-gatherers from western Central Africa, which implies that populations in western Cameroon today—as well as speakers of Bantu languages from across the continent—are not descended substantially from the population represented by these four people.

    As far away as 6,000 BC and recently as 1,000 BC the area that is hypothesized to be the homeland of the Bantu Migration, is somehow void of any genetic resemblance towards Bantus. Not one sample! Now while more work is obviously needed in this region of Africa, this study could impact how we perceive the Bantu migration. The Bantu migration is a theory first pushed by Joseph Greenberg, but the area of Cameroon is not recognized by any Bantu ethnic group as their "homeland".
    I think you should read the Shum Laka paper with caution. You cannot conclude from this study that no Bantus were simultaneously living with these tested people in Cameroon.

    So if the Bantus or Niger-Congo speaking people were not native to Cameroon, which region in Africa is in your point of view, the homeland of the Bantus?

  10. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to dr.sparco For This Useful Post:

     Alfa (05-17-2020),  Brwn_trd (05-16-2020)

  11. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by dr.sparco View Post
    I think you should read the Shum Laka paper with caution. You cannot conclude from this study
    The bold is where you slipped. I did not conclude anything from this study. In fact in the opening post I even stated that more work certainly needs to be done on early West Africa.

    that no Bantus were simultaneously living with these tested people in Cameroon.
    That in itself is an assumption.

    So if the Bantus or Niger-Congo speaking people were not native to Cameroon, which region in Africa is in your point of view, the homeland of the Bantus?
    Are you asking that from what linguistic evidence implies or genetic evidence? If it's the latter than I've already asked the question here. Where is the earliest dating for the M2 lineage that tends to define Niger-Congo speaking populations? From the data that we have it's certainly not in Cameroon. Do you know? This;



    is why these finding could have enormous impact on how view African history is viewed. We have to remember the Bantu Migration from Cameroon is a completely European construct. There is no correlation with African nor European historians as to how Bantu's and Niger-Congo speakers in general came into the areas that they now inhabit. Essentially this theory was imposed on Africa and Africans. This isn't the first study that neutralizes the Bantu migration from Cameroon theory btw.
    Last edited by Ramond; 05-16-2020 at 06:45 PM.

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to Ramond For This Useful Post:

     SWAHILLI_PRINCE16 (05-16-2020)

  13. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramond View Post
    The bold is where you slipped. I did not conclude anything from this study. In fact in the opening post I even stated that more work certainly needs to be done on early West Africa.



    That in itself is an assumption.



    Are you asking that from what linguistic evidence implies or genetic evidence? If it's the latter than I've already asked the question here. Where is the earliest dating for the M2 lineage that tends to define Niger-Congo speaking populations? From the data that we have it's certainly not in Cameroon. Do you know?
    Its prolly an ANA clade..only time will tell.

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to ThaYamamoto For This Useful Post:

     Ramond (05-16-2020)

  15. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by ThaYamamoto View Post
    Its prolly an ANA clade..only time will tell.
    Exactly!

  16. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by dr.sparco View Post
    I think you should read the Shum Laka paper with caution. You cannot conclude from this study that no Bantus were simultaneously living with these tested people in Cameroon.

    So if the Bantus or Niger-Congo speaking people were not native to Cameroon, which region in Africa is in your point of view, the homeland of the Bantus?
    I concur, It's possible that we had two populations in this region and we have only sampled one of them. Certainly absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, especially when only a single location has been sampled.

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to Brwn_trd For This Useful Post:

     Alfa (05-17-2020)

Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. E-M2/V95 and Niger-Congo languages
    By Arame in forum E1b-V38
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-04-2019, 12:19 PM
  2. Replies: 8
    Last Post: 06-08-2019, 09:29 PM
  3. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-11-2017, 02:44 PM
  4. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-02-2016, 10:32 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •