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Thread: No Bantus or Niger-Congo In Cameroon

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon S. Pilcher View Post
    So what am I supposed to think when you say that "'sub Saharan Africa' was the genesis that followed the Asiatic/European destruction of ancient Egypt" and post graphics like the following?
    It's a blanket statement to say "most". I would only use "most" when it comes to ancient Nubia, which was the original civilization and the one of the main dispersal points around the Meroetic period.

    Because that does make it sound like you're proposing ancient Egypt to be ancestral to most Africans.
    You're just not that informed on the context of this argument. If you need clarity then say so.

  2. #62
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    The "Ancient Model of History"? Seriously? And once again you're replying to my posts using book reviews of books that I didn't even mention, and by Afrocentrists no less. I said it before, but now I'm really done with this self-indulgent blather.

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  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by passenger View Post
    The "Ancient Model of History"? Seriously? And once again you're replying to my posts using book reviews of books that I didn't even mention, and by Afrocentrists no less. I said it before, but now I'm really done with this self-indulgent blather.
    All of those anti “Afrocentric” books have the same weak talking points. Even the “reverse racism”/“Black supremacist” nonsense is the essentially the same. You’ve seen one critic you’ve seen them all. That response definitely applied. You were better off citing Mary Lefkowitz.
    Last edited by Ramond; 05-18-2020 at 09:53 PM.

  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramond View Post
    ??? So it originated in "Sub Saharan Africa", and was only brought into the Sahara during the fertile period (according to your source). Despite that it's still "North African" according to you, and that is despite it being the most dominant paternal marker in "Sub Saharan Africa".



    Not sure about that one.



    That's geographic semantics. "Sub Saharan Africa" defines the M2 lineage.
    I think you have an issue understanding me.
    Let me quote the study.
    However, we found clues as to the role of the last Green Sahara considering the phylogeography of the E-M2 sub-clades in northern Africa. The coalescence age of the lineages harbouring northern and sub-Saharan chromosomes predates the onset of the arid conditions, falling between 11.03 kya (coalescence age of E-Page66) and 4.49 kya (the time estimate of the most recent clade harbouring a relevant proportion of northern African samples, i.e. E-V5280), during the last Green Sahara. After this time frame, we observed clades restricted to the north or to the south of the Sahara. In this context, although the large majority of the geographically restricted lineages come from sub-Saharan regions, we also found two northern African-specific clades, namely E-V5001and E-V4990 . E-V5001 has only been found in Egypt, is one of the sister clades within the E-M4727 multifurcation and coalesced at 3.88 kya. E-V4990 is a Moroccan clade dated to < 4.49 kya (the time estimate of the upstream node). Interestingly, it is the terminal branch of a nested topology, which divides western Africa from Morocco.
    Hope you learn something from here. Next time you see E-M2 in North Africa, look for a specific subclade to know for sure if it is SSA or North African.

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  7. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon S. Pilcher View Post
    So what am I supposed to think when you say that "'sub Saharan Africa' was the genesis that followed the Asiatic/European destruction of ancient Egypt" and post graphics like the following?

    Because that does make it sound like you're proposing ancient Egypt to be ancestral to most Africans.
    If this is not what he is proposing (ie. a straw man), then OP, what are you proposing?

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  9. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by JerryS. View Post
    I understand you not wanting to hurt anyone's feelings, but I read what you wrote and believed it to be well thought out. I can see how it could translate in part to other ethnic diaspora groups, particularly those of mass exodus from Europe that came to America a little over 100 years ago... Thank you.
    Thanks..I just felt like it was irresponsible in a way. And yeah, I didn't want to hurt any feelings...truly I feel very strongly for the diaspora and those who, once in the West, cling to Afrocentric ideals..I understand where it comes from, a place of pain - also I don't really like to share how much of the colonial observations were true - there is enough discrimination already without providing information for people to make things even worse. Ultimately, time will tell all, and most importantly, time heals all wounds. Appreciate you though. Unfortunately I didn't write a draft so its gone forever lol.

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  11. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Espoir View Post
    Hope you learn something from here. Next time you see E-M2 in North Africa, look for a specific subclade to know for sure if it is SSA or North African.
    There must have been a slight misunderstanding. You never mentioned anything about "subclades" you stated the whole of "E-M2".

    Espoir - "Let’s remember that some E-M2 are indigenous to North Africa."


    link

    The source that you presented directly refuted your own claim. No mentioning of subclades is shown in your initial claims.

  12. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramond View Post
    There must have been a slight misunderstanding. You never mentioned anything about "subclades" you stated the whole of "E-M2".

    Espoir - "Let’s remember that some E-M2 are indigenous to North Africa."


    link

    The source that you presented directly refuted your own claim. No mentioning of subclades is shown in your initial claims.
    Ok! I should have said some E-M2 subclades for u to understand . And I’m glad we settle on that.

  13. #69
    The history of bantu peoples prior to the iron age is shrouded in mystery. They seemingly appear out of nowhere with a fully developed cultural toolkit. This shows we are missing a lot of information to connect the dots. Indications are that this was a small isolated population in west africa prior to the rapid expansion that reshaped the genetic character of the rest of the continent. Linguistic and genetic evidence points to origins in the vicinity of of the river systems of Guinea and Mali. The Shum Laka specimens present the closest related population in prehistory. Further investigation is required to shed light on our history. Haplogroups like EM2 are like surnames, they are not really informative on their own.

    In the absence of direct genetic evidence, ancient DNA from populations with admixture might shed light on the contact regions of said populations. We can definitely put them in west africa due to admixture in Iberomaurusian and Shum Laka. It is true that there might have been population replacement in west africa much like in central africa, and much of the bantu world. But this is speculation in the absence of evidence, and currently there is very little evidence from west africa. Not enough to even speculate...

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  15. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Brwn_trd View Post
    The history of bantu peoples prior to the iron age is shrouded in mystery. They seemingly appear out of nowhere with a fully developed cultural toolkit. This shows we are missing a lot of information to connect the dots. Indications are that this was a small isolated population in west africa prior to the rapid expansion that reshaped the genetic character of the rest of the continent. Linguistic and genetic evidence points to origins in the vicinity of of the river systems of Guinea and Mali. The Shum Laka specimens present the closest related population in prehistory. Further investigation is required to shed light on our history. Haplogroups like EM2 are like surnames, they are not really informative on their own.

    In the absence of direct genetic evidence, ancient DNA from populations with admixture might shed light on the contact regions of said populations. We can definitely put them in west africa due to admixture in Iberomaurusian and Shum Laka. It is true that there might have been population replacement in west africa much like in central africa, and much of the bantu world. But this is speculation in the absence of evidence, and currently there is very little evidence from west africa. Not enough to even speculate...
    Yeah they really do come outta no where...hotep ish aside the connection with narrow Bantu and Afro-Asiatic is crazy. How do you know of a more west-ward origin i.e. Guinea/Mali? Doesn't seem to be much of a genetic foot print left there but population replacement has and does occur. I thought they probably originate somewhere west of Nigeria or maybe from the Nok culture...we really need to see the genetics of modern Ijaw people, something about it being such an early divergent isolate of Niger-Congo spoken only in the south-south of Nigeria needs more investigation, the Bantu left in Nigeria aka the Jarawan, and Bantoid folks in the extreme South-East e.g. Calabar, Ekoid/Enjagham.

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